Peter May article about Ray

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There's been a lot of discussion about Ray Allen around here recently -- mostly due to his slightly off shooting thus far this year, the perception that the Cs are old and therefore a bit slow, and the fact that he has a large expiring contract that may be attractive to cash-strapped teams.

I myself have bounced around a number of Ray trade ideas -- mostly for fun, not because I seriously think it makes sense for the Cs to move him.

Peter May has an article out today that in and of itself is nothing special, but makes a point that I've been thinking for the past few days.

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/may/2009/12/05/allen-should-be-a-keeper/

That point is that the Cs -- thankfully -- aren't likely even thinking about trading Ray. He likely would like to remain a Celtic for a number of years to come and will sign for a hometown discount in the offseason.

What May fails to emphasize strongly enough is that the spacing Ray provides is essentially irreplaceable. Whether he's 5 for 8, or 1 for 8, defenses must  respect him and that reaps tremendous benefits for Pierce, KG, Rondo, Baby, even Perk. So even when Ray's not at the top of his game, he's enormously valuable to the Cs. Obviously that's not the only reason he's valuable but it's a factor that's very easy to overlook when you've become accustomed to his game. Watching San Antonio struggle from the field so dramatically reminded me of this.

I agree with May (for once). Ray is not going anywhere, even after the season. For that, we can be thankful.

[j804]

True im all 4 Ray retiring a Celtic

[Roy Hobbs]

I whole-heartedly agree that you just can't trade Ray when the Celts are still a contender.  I'm all for giving him an extension.  Ray is just one of those guys who is crucial to how the team functions, and no matter how poorly he's shooting, I always expect him to make the next shot.

[celticinorlando]

i love ray allen

[thirstyboots18]

Ray has already indicated that he would be ok with coming off the bench when the time comes....and I hope and believe that he will retire a Celtic.  Can you imagine a bench with Ray Allen on it on a team lead by Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo?  If so, the Celtics are in good shape for a few more years....especially if PP and KG sign on the plan!  We have had super starters mentoring our young players for years...continue the trend and earn even more Championships for the team....

It was not until the Pitino years that previous Celtic championship players were considered persona not grata in the locker room, and look where that philosophy got us!  Now that we have the Celtic Family involved again, lets keep it that way.  I think our present owners, with Danny and Doc, are smart enough to continue the good tradition.  Go Celts!!

[Kiorrik]

True im all 4 Ray retiring a Celtic

TP4Truth.

[looseball]

I think when Big Baby returns I would put him in the starting line-up , move Pierce back to guard, and have Ray come off the bench as 6th man.  The Celtics need to get younger, but can do so without a trade.  Big Baby brings a lot of energy to the team, along with aggression, scoring and rebounding.  He showed last year in the playoffs he is a ready for prime time player.   This way they would be starting 3 guys in their 20's and 2 in their 30's, and could stay with the younger teams.
With Ray coming off the bench they would have instant offense, which is what you love to see from a 6th man.  And with Wallace coming in as 7th man, there would be no drop-off in the rotation.

[Roy Hobbs]

I think when Big Baby returns I would put him in the starting line-up , move Pierce back to guard, and have Ray come off the bench as 6th man.  The Celtics need to get younger, but can do so without a trade.  Big Baby brings a lot of energy to the team, along with aggression, scoring and rebounding.  He showed last year in the playoffs he is a ready for prime time player.   This way they would be starting 3 guys in their 20's and 2 in their 30's, and could stay with the younger teams.
With Ray coming off the bench they would have instant offense, which is what you love to see from a 6th man.  And with Wallace coming in as 7th man, there would be no drop-off in the rotation.

I think putting BBD at SF, and Pierce at SG, would be a recipe for disaster.  Right now, things are going well.  Ray provides a lot of spacing that gives the other starters room to work.  Putting BBD in there would hurt the starts both offensively and defensively.

[hwangjini_1]

i understand what folks say about how having ray in the line up helps even if he isnt shooting well....and i will agree, but with strong caveats.

having ray in the lineup as a threat to be respected is nice. but having a player who is in the line up as a threat to be respected, AND, can make a high percentage of long-distance shots every night is much, much better.

if ray continues to shoot 3 pts at this rate (32.2%, his previous career low was 35.1%, his career average is 39.7%) then come the playoffs, a good team with a good coach may decide to stop respecting ray's shots and make him prove he can still do it.

while i hope he will burn that team and make his shots, what i see from this season worries me a bit.

so far this year, ray is well out of the top 20 3 pt shooters in the nba in terms of percentages.

as a TEAM boston is shooting 35.5%, so ray's shooting is bringing the team 3 pt% average down.

pierce is at 44.1% and house is at 40.6%. Ray is third, just ahead of wallace, who shoots 3 pt at 30.2%. (let's not count hudson or scal's 3 pt%, both of which are higher than ray's but they are scrubs with a small sample size.)

ray's 3 pt% is not terrible, but it is significantly down from his career average, not anywhere near the top of the nba rankings, and is only 3rd on the team.

how much longer will teams "respect" his scoring if he can not show he is a top shooter? and when might some teams begin to think "ok, go ahead and shoot. we dont need to guard you as was once the case."

[Fan from VT]

Ray has already indicated that he would be ok with coming off the bench when the time comes....and I hope and believe that he will retire a Celtic.  Can you imagine a bench with Ray Allen on it on a team lead by Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo?  If so, the Celtics are in good shape for a few more years....especially if PP and KG sign on the plan!  We have had super starters mentoring our young players for years...continue the trend and earn even more Championships for the team....

It was not until the Pitino years that previous Celtic championship players were considered persona not grata in the locker room, and look where that philosophy got us!  Now that we have the Celtic Family involved again, lets keep it that way.  I think our present owners, with Danny and Doc, are smart enough to continue the good tradition.  Go Celts!!

I'd also be careful about this. Players are notorious at saying they'll come off the bench when it's time, and then not realizing it's time and putting up a stink. The same competitiveness that makes them good gets in the way when the skills slip.

Hey, Ray's a good player. It's naive to think he'll get dealt this year. But it's also naive to think that we couldn't make the team better by dealing Ray if the right deal came along. Likewise, dealing Ray is the only way to make a major impact on this team for the next 2 1/2 seasons. And, in the meantime, it's fun to think about.

[thirstyboots18]

True enough, Fan from V


















True enough, Fan from VT.  My biggest fear is that if Ray is traded, PP and/or KG will decide to retire as well.  You may say they are too competitive to let that influence them, but Ray being here was a major selling point to get KG and, later, Rasheed Wallace to come to Boston.  The "old men" are not really old, they are experienced!

And yes, I know I can be naive, but some never learn, it seems, and maybe I am one of them    .

[Fan from VT]

True enough, Fan from V


















True enough, Fan from VT.  My biggest fear is that if Ray is traded, PP and/or KG will decide to retire as well.  You may say they are too competitive to let that influence them, but Ray being here was a major selling point to get KG and, later, Rasheed Wallace to come to Boston.  The "old men" are not really old, they are experienced!

And yes, I know I can be naive, but some never learn, it seems, and maybe I am one of them    .

Well, therein lies the "Veteran Paradox." They love playing with each other, and HATE to admit when they've been passed by.


And the naivety goes both ways. Too naive to know when to move on or to admit that just because player x helped team y win once doesn't mean player x is the ONLY player that could help team y win, and too naive to realize that chemistry and been there done that means something. Balance and luck, I suppose.

[thirstyboots18]

Just my attempt to write history, I suppose.  Every time I have tried before, I have failed; but the future has always surprised me by being better than I had imagined, 

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This 'Baby at the 3' discussion is preposterous. He's got enough issues with fouls at the 4, can you imagine him trying to stay out of trouble covering a wing?

He's a PF, and a good one. He's an energy bench player. He's a great fit for that role.

[SamuelAdams]

I have to agree the respect Ray receives on the court is invaluable. I think it is quite unrealistic to expect BBD to start strong. He was offered, and accepted, a bench contract.