Author Topic: Big Baby's role?  (Read 9198 times)

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Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2009, 12:39:14 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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does anyone really have a role..

if apul or ray fall off...way off we think of trading..

if scalabrine comes in a hits every 3pt he shoots he get a spot with more minutes..baby like powe pimpin proved worth..can he come back from that hand injury and be productive..?...if he cant produce then he has no role..kg is still not 100%..if he gets hurt agin the role of power goes to sheed..thats why he is here..roles and stats i dont follow it's all about who can give you what u want when u need it..and it's not always your stars that deliver

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2009, 01:00:46 PM »

Offline Jon

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While I do think that Baby beats out Williams at some point during the year, the question we also have to ask is how well he fits in with this team as its currently constituted.  Sure, he was very helpful last years hitting the 18 foot jump shot and helping to guard bigger players with his girth; however, with KG back and Wallace here, do we still have a need for that?  Is Williams rebounding and length now more of an asset?  Right now I'm thinking no, but it's important to keep in mind that the circumstances Baby succeeded under at the end of last year don't exist anymore.  He may have a tougher time fitting in than some expect. 

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2009, 01:21:56 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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While I do think that Baby beats out Williams at some point during the year, the question we also have to ask is how well he fits in with this team as its currently constituted.  Sure, he was very helpful last years hitting the 18 foot jump shot and helping to guard bigger players with his girth; however, with KG back and Wallace here, do we still have a need for that?  Is Williams rebounding and length now more of an asset?  Right now I'm thinking no, but it's important to keep in mind that the circumstances Baby succeeded under at the end of last year don't exist anymore.  He may have a tougher time fitting in than some expect. 

Baby, Sheed, and KG can all pick OR pop. Doc and Baby have already spoke about this. If Glen is in there with Sheed he's a roller, if he's in there with Kevin he's rolling, if he's in there with Perk he's popping. He showed some serious game in the preseason.

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2009, 01:31:13 PM »

Offline Bahku

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Big Baby will def have a role ... and it's not the same as anyone else's, so I don't see the need for all worry. Doc is a good enough coach, (along with trainer Ed Lacerte), to know what Davis can take on and where/when he can be used effectively. Everyone's worried about him taking Shel's place or vice-versa, when both players can be utilized in an efficient way and still get substantial, (if somewhat abbreviated), minutes.
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Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2009, 01:39:22 PM »

Offline Rtpas11

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I'd say...

Offense: ;)
PG = House
SG = Daniels
SF = Sheed
PF = Williams
C = Davis

Defense: ;)
PG = House
SG = Daniels
SF = Davis
PF = Williams
C = Sheed

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2009, 01:40:48 PM »

Offline Jon

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Big Baby will def have a role ... and it's not the same as anyone else's, so I don't see the need for all worry. Doc is a good enough coach, (along with trainer Ed Lacerte), to know what Davis can take on and where/when he can be used effectively. Everyone's worried about him taking Shel's place or vice-versa, when both players can be utilized in an efficient way and still get substantial, (if somewhat abbreviated), minutes.

I don't know about that.  Right now KG is playing 30 mpg, Perk 27, and Sheed about 20.  I expect Perk and Sheed to both get more mpg as the season goes on and certainly all three will get more minutes come playoff time.  Thus, the amount of minutes left for Baby or Williams should go down as the season goes on.  I think come playoff time it'll be hard enough to find minutes for a 4th big, let alone a fifth.  

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2009, 01:41:54 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Thanks for the TP Prof Clutch, appreciate that. I do agree as well that it is a very interesting topic because we will be adding in a player who, especially after Garnett went down last year, played a critical role in getting us one game from the ECF. Couple follow ups:

1. I don't think that, by himself, Baby is a great rebounder. I agree with that. However, and this is a BIG HOWEVER, in my book anyway and as Bankshot said, the amount of space Baby eats up and the way he moves people around, he makes everyone else a better rebounder. Why? He can go toe to toe with the Yao's, Horfords, Maxiells, Howards, Brandon Bass', etc. It gives us someone else other than Perk who can really get in there and smack some people around. Garnett, Sheed, Shelden...they play hard. But they are not Perkins and they are not Baby. These are two of I would say the top five toughest, strongest guys in the league. God forbid Baby should develop a mean streak like Perkins. NO ONE would want to go down there when he and Perk were in together. So I really think Baby will help our rebounding game a lot by tying up the other dominating physical presence on any given team. This is critical as it allows all our other players better access to the boards. It's the same principle in how Perkins helps Garnett be such a great help defender for us. Perkins takes the toughest guy on the other team every night, allowing Garnett to play free safety. If Garnett had to take the Howard's every night, our defense wouldn't be nearly as good. Baby has a unique and rare skill...unusaul physical size, width and strength.

Shelden may be a better rebounder on his own. But Baby's ability to handle the toughest guy on the other team any night will make the team a better rebounding team as whole. My opinion...

2. Re Shelden Vs Baby. I really like Shelden. Don't want anyone thinking I'm bashing him, because I'm not, I really like what he's done, would like to see him in Green for years to come.

But let me ask you...last year with Shelden taking Baby's spot along side Ray and Pierce, do we get as far? Answer...No. Why? Couple main reasons:

A) Baby can create his own offense. Took at least a little more pressure off Pierce and Ray.

B) Baby is a gamer, he's a play maker. He's a spot light guy. He wants the stage and that makes him a gamer. I don't see Shelden averaging 16 points and 8 boards. He would never be mistaken for an offensive threat. His scoring is mostly opportunistic garbage. I LOVE opprotunisitic garbage points but to me Shelden is a very good role player. Baby's celing is much higher than that and we saw a taste of that in the playoffs last year...in his second season...

C) I don't really beleive in statistics as much as I do how what an individual player does impacts the rest of his teammates. How his skills compliment the other parts of the team. If I did beleive in statistics then there would be five other point guards in the league who I'd rather have than Rondo. I'd want Chris Paul because he scroes more, foregetting his defense would negate that bonus, etc. Fact is, I'm not sure I'd trade Rondo for any other point in the league.  

What makes Rondo so good is that he helps you win games. He's DJ like. There were a bunch of guys that were better than DJ but you'd be hard pressed to take any of them over DJ because he had a knack for making plays that helped you win. I see Rondo as that type of player. it'a s teal, or a board, or the right pass...or just the great D ( when he chooses to play it)...

Therefore, it's not just Baby's energy (though I think that is a critical compliment to our vet laden team ), it's that he gives us "Perk 2" from a physical strength standpoint, Shelden doesn't. And you can't have enough of that come playoff time. Also, you are very unlikely to Shelden Williams going headlong out of bounds for a ball; you expect it from Baby. We need that fire off the bench. I love Shelden but he's not Baby.

D) You really don't think that some team, who's going nowhere and it's probably because they are youth laden and re-building, wouldn't want to trade say:

Noicioni ( 3 years at money..when he's not the future)

Raja Bell ( when he's going to walk and you could maybe pick up a Walker or Giddens at least form him and cut more salary by buying out Scal...and/or Tony )

Gomes or Brewer or other guys...

or whatever other teams might be looking to dump salary with guys who aren't in their future but who have 2-3 years left on the books.

For expiring contracts of Scal and Tony that you can also buy out AND you get a low cost rookie project with some upside in a Giddens or Walker?

I would definately be out there searching the league for that opportunity if I had some guys who weren't in my plans long term.

              

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2009, 01:49:37 PM »

Offline ScoobyDoo

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Good point xmuscular...I agree.

In the end you can't have anough good bigs, options with bigs come playoff time. Playoffs are won in the paint. We'll need Baby and Shelden. They just do different things.

But with Baby, I expect to see a continued progression of his maturity that culminated with his playoff run.

Baby has a alot more game to come IMHO. We havent' see the best. I beleive that like Perkins, Baby will be a very different player one year form now and two years from now. As he will be improved this year from last.

Resulting form a combination of:

1. Growing natural talent
2. Confidence gained
3. conditioning improved ( an ongoing process fro him, but that, according to all reviews, is progressing in the right direction each year, as it did with Perk.
4. Baby's go the heart and desire to do with hsi body what Perk has
5. He also has the inspriational motivator on him in Garnett to get there.
6. Plus, he's pretty funny( gotta like that ) That's a bonus.

I love me some Big Baby.

I want my baby back baby back baby back   

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2009, 02:35:25 PM »

Offline Jon

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In the end you can't have anough good bigs, options with bigs come playoff time. Playoffs are won in the paint. We'll need Baby and Shelden. They just do different things.

While I agree that it's nice to have depth because of injuries and foul trouble, how exactly do you think 5 bigs are going to contribute in the playoffs?  The only reason Shelden is getting minutes now is because KG is playing 30 mpg, Perk 27, and Sheed 20.  That will not continue in the playoffs.  I'd expect all of them to play at least 5 more mpg, which will leave a whopping 4 mpg for Shelden and Baby to split at the 4/5 spots.

While I agree it's nice to imagine what each of our big's unique skills could bring to the table, the fact of the matter is that there aren't enough minutes for that really to happen. 

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2009, 07:53:35 PM »

Offline scoop

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If Portland is looking for another big to replace Oden (also with Outlaw+Pendergraph out for awhile), I'd be interested in knowing what would they be willing to offer to get Davis. When is David scheduled to return?

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2009, 09:16:55 PM »

Offline looseball

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I think Big Baby should eventually start for the C's at #3, moving Pierce to #2 (he plays like a guard, anyway) and have Ray Allen come off the bench as 6th man (instant offense).
Big Baby brings a great deal of energy to the team, and Garnett showed how energy can "change the culture" of a team.
Plus, Big Baby averaged almost 16 points and 6 rebounds during the playoffs, including 5 games of 20+ points.  How can you say he'll have to fight for minutes?  He's proven himself in the playoff when the games count the most!

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2009, 09:45:34 PM »

Offline Chief

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Can you imagine Big Baby, at the 3, trying to guard Lebron or Melo? :o
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Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2009, 10:17:59 PM »

Offline Jon

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I think Big Baby should eventually start for the C's at #3, moving Pierce to #2 (he plays like a guard, anyway) and have Ray Allen come off the bench as 6th man (instant offense).
Big Baby brings a great deal of energy to the team, and Garnett showed how energy can "change the culture" of a team.
Plus, Big Baby averaged almost 16 points and 6 rebounds during the playoffs, including 5 games of 20+ points.  How can you say he'll have to fight for minutes?  He's proven himself in the playoff when the games count the most!

First, he didn't prove himself as a 3, so that should go out the window.  Second, he beat out the likes of Mikki Moore for minutes.  Third, he played 35+ mpg.  There's a lot of 4s in this league who could put up 16 and 6 in 35 mpg. 

Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2009, 09:34:14 AM »

Offline Bankshot

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I think Big Baby should eventually start for the C's at #3, moving Pierce to #2 (he plays like a guard, anyway) and have Ray Allen come off the bench as 6th man (instant offense).
Big Baby brings a great deal of energy to the team, and Garnett showed how energy can "change the culture" of a team.
Plus, Big Baby averaged almost 16 points and 6 rebounds during the playoffs, including 5 games of 20+ points.  How can you say he'll have to fight for minutes?  He's proven himself in the playoff when the games count the most!

First, he didn't prove himself as a 3, so that should go out the window.  Second, he beat out the likes of Mikki Moore for minutes.  Third, he played 35+ mpg.  There's a lot of 4s in this league who could put up 16 and 6 in 35 mpg. 

Except that Baby did it against elite competition (starters) in the playoffs.
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Re: Big Baby's role?
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2009, 10:23:38 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I think Big Baby should eventually start for the C's at #3, moving Pierce to #2 (he plays like a guard, anyway) and have Ray Allen come off the bench as 6th man (instant offense).
Big Baby brings a great deal of energy to the team, and Garnett showed how energy can "change the culture" of a team.
Plus, Big Baby averaged almost 16 points and 6 rebounds during the playoffs, including 5 games of 20+ points.  How can you say he'll have to fight for minutes?  He's proven himself in the playoff when the games count the most!

First, he didn't prove himself as a 3, so that should go out the window.  Second, he beat out the likes of Mikki Moore for minutes.  Third, he played 35+ mpg.  There's a lot of 4s in this league who could put up 16 and 6 in 35 mpg. 

Except that Baby did it against elite competition (starters) in the playoffs.
His rebounding rate didn't climb though, it was the same whether he played 15 or 35 minutes.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/davisgl01.html