Big Baby's role?

[xmuscularghandix]

Tommy point Manup for the correction and that is exactly what I meant...Thaddeus Young and Rashard Lewis.

And my point about that was; if Baby sometimes guarded these guys who are "very quick" PF's when they play that position isn a small ball lineup and who are just average speed larger sized small forwards when they're playing the SF position in a different rotation...

A) If Baby has trimmed down a bit from last year and he did at least a resonable job on those guys defensively, does it give us the option to play a lineup of Sheed, Shelden and Baby in a situational manner as Atzar meantions?

B) If Baby can play some small it the right situations and we also have Marquis and Scal and Walker who can also play spot minutes at the small...

Which means we'd have a decent rotation behind Pierce to keep him fresh; primarily Daniels, with spots of Baby and Walker...

C) Would it be a better idea to trade TA and Scal plus Giddens for a good back up off guard like a Raja Bell or similar at the deadline...rather than what everyone assumes might be the more obvious move of going after another small forward?

Perkins / Sheed / Baby
Garnett / Shelden  / Baby
Pierce / Daniels / Baby / Walker
Ray / Raja or similar /
Rondo / House / Hudson

Or does everyone think we'd be better off, if we in fact make a trade at the deadline, in going after a samll forward?

No one has responded to that question, thoughts?

Shelden isn't ahead of Baby in that PF section.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Whenever Davis guarded the quicker/longer PF's like Rashard Lewis he got absolutely toasted.  IMO BBD's #1 role should be waiving a towel from the sidelines as insurance in case of injury.  If you want the inside/out game to space the floor, you put Rasheed in.  If you want a tough substitute who will get rebounds, you put in Sheldon.

[hpantazo]

Ummm, Davis NEVER played SF last year.  I can't think of one time.  I am really not sure where you got that.  Are you just thinking of him switching onto perimeter guys on pick and rolls? 

Davis' role is as another part of the big man rotation.  He is going to be fighting for minutes with Williams and Scal (and perhaps Sheed).  It is tough to say for sure how that will shake out, but I would put my money on Doc using a 9th man by committee thing, where he plays Davis, Williams or Scal, based on matchups.  Basically, it will be the same as it was two years ago with Powe, Davis and Scal.

If any big man will be seeing minutes at SF, it is Scal...but even that will be VERY limited.

I remember Pierce playing PF against the Bulls a few times in the playoffs, but no way was Davis playing SF.

[Spilling Green Dye]

It will be interesting to see what Doc comes up with.

[Jon]

Tommy point Manup for the correction and that is exactly what I meant...Thaddeus Young and Rashard Lewis.

And my point about that was; if Baby sometimes guarded these guys who are "very quick" PF's when they play that position isn a small ball lineup and who are just average speed larger sized small forwards when they're playing the SF position in a different rotation...

A) If Baby has trimmed down a bit from last year and he did at least a resonable job on those guys defensively, does it give us the option to play a lineup of Sheed, Shelden and Baby in a situational manner as Atzar meantions?

B) If Baby can play some small it the right situations and we also have Marquis and Scal and Walker who can also play spot minutes at the small...

Which means we'd have a decent rotation behind Pierce to keep him fresh; primarily Daniels, with spots of Baby and Walker...

C) Would it be a better idea to trade TA and Scal plus Giddens for a good back up off guard like a Raja Bell or similar at the deadline...rather than what everyone assumes might be the more obvious move of going after another small forward?

Perkins / Sheed / Baby
Garnett / Shelden  / Baby
Pierce / Daniels / Baby / Walker
Ray / Raja or similar /
Rondo / House / Hudson

Or does everyone think we'd be better off, if we in fact make a trade at the deadline, in going after a samll forward?

No one has responded to that question, thoughts?

You may be right; Baby may be able to play the 3.  However, in the rotation you have above, it really doesn't matter.  I mean look at it, under what circumstances would Baby ever see the floor as the third string C/PF/SF?  He'd see the floor about as much as the third string PG, Lester Hudson.  And if the C's have a 20 minute lead with 5 minutes left, Baby can run the point for all I care.  

Right now Paul and Ray are playing over 35 mpg.  That's too many minutes for anyone more than Marquis to back them up.  And Baby shouldn't be stealing minutes from Marquis.  So it really comes down to the question, can he beat out Williams/Scal for the 9th spot in the rotation?  Maybe he can.  But he should have to earn it.  

And to Spilled Green Dye above, I hope Doc doesn't "come up" with anything.  This team is on a roll now.  Either Baby should beat out Shelden or he shouldn't play.  No one on this team is playing excessive minutes (in fact, I'd like to see Marquis and Perk play a few more).  The last thing we need to do is get wacky rotations or lineups to throw us out of sync to accommodate Big Baby. 

[2short]

NOWAY can davis play sf, gomes was a bit slow for that posistion, no way can davis cover any sf in the league
if davis can't take scal & williams minutes away than he is being overpaid
I feel both marquis & sheed should be averaging over 20 minutes a game and keep ray & paul especially closer to 30 mpg

[Bankshot]

Tommy point Manup for the correction and that is exactly what I meant...Thaddeus Young and Rashard Lewis.

And my point about that was; if Baby sometimes guarded these guys who are "very quick" PF's when they play that position isn a small ball lineup and who are just average speed larger sized small forwards when they're playing the SF position in a different rotation...

A) If Baby has trimmed down a bit from last year and he did at least a resonable job on those guys defensively, does it give us the option to play a lineup of Sheed, Shelden and Baby in a situational manner as Atzar meantions?

B) If Baby can play some small it the right situations and we also have Marquis and Scal and Walker who can also play spot minutes at the small...

Which means we'd have a decent rotation behind Pierce to keep him fresh; primarily Daniels, with spots of Baby and Walker...

C) Would it be a better idea to trade TA and Scal plus Giddens for a good back up off guard like a Raja Bell or similar at the deadline...rather than what everyone assumes might be the more obvious move of going after another small forward?

Perkins / Sheed / Baby
Garnett / Shelden  / Baby
Pierce / Daniels / Baby / Walker
Ray / Raja or similar /
Rondo / House / Hudson

Or does everyone think we'd be better off, if we in fact make a trade at the deadline, in going after a samll forward?

No one has responded to that question, thoughts?

You may be right; Baby may be able to play the 3.  However, in the rotation you have above, it really doesn't matter.  I mean look at it, under what circumstances would Baby ever see the floor as the third string C/PF/SF?  He'd see the floor about as much as the third string PG, Lester Hudson.  And if the C's have a 20 minute lead with 5 minutes left, Baby can run the point for all I care.  

Right now Paul and Ray are playing over 35 mpg.  That's too many minutes for anyone more than Marquis to back them up.  And Baby shouldn't be stealing minutes from Marquis.  So it really comes down to the question, can he beat out Williams/Scal for the 9th spot in the rotation?  Maybe he can.  But he should have to earn it.  

And to Spilled Green Dye above, I hope Doc doesn't "come up" with anything.  This team is on a roll now.  Either Baby should beat out Shelden or he shouldn't play.  No one on this team is playing excessive minutes (in fact, I'd like to see Marquis and Perk play a few more).  The last thing we need to do is get wacky rotations or lineups to throw us out of sync to accommodate Big Baby. 

I don't think Baby is going to have a problem beating out Shelden.  It's already noticeable that Doc doesn't trust Shelden in certain situations where he would have trusted Baby. So I think as soon as Baby gets going Iand it might not be for a month or so after he returns), I believe he will replace Shelden in the rotation.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Jon, I agree with what you've written, and the only reason I wrote "what Doc comes up with" is b/c I deleted my original post but couldn't leave it blank so I wrote that generalized statement.  If you see my post before it you'll notice that I'm on the same page as you, except I might have taken it even further; Davis should be waving towels.

[Jon]

Jon, I agree with what you've written, and the only reason I wrote "what Doc comes up with" is b/c I deleted my original post but couldn't leave it blank so I wrote that generalized statement.  If you see my post before it you'll notice that I'm on the same page as you, except I might have taken it even further; Davis should be waving towels.

Don't worry.  I wasn't trying to critique you, I was just stating my opinion: I hope Doc doesn't try to get fancy to accommodate Baby.  Fact of the matter is that he screwed up and the team is functioning just fine without him.  If he can prove he can make the team better (and I think he can), I hope he beats out Williams.  However, I hope Doc doesn't go Little League on us and try let everyone play. 

[ScoobyDoo]

Wow, suprised to see the level of anti Big Baby sentiment on some of these posts. I think he is far and away the better player over Shelden Williams. I like Williams alot, great addition, great team player, but I see him as a very good role player with limited skills.

Big Baby?

1. Very good passer
2. Good banger and rebounder, space eater around the basket
4. Far superior scorer
5. Plays with an energy that gets people juiced.
6. Probably a top five most physical presence around the basket. There might be 1-2 guys ( if that) who can really move Davis when he doesn't want to be moved. That adds huge value to our rebounding. It hleps all the other guys board well.

Personally, I think Davis can play center and PF mostly, but I do think he can spot at the three in the right situations; one of the reasons is because he can shoot pretty well now.

I don't thinkhe will have any trouble beating out Shelden, he's jsut a much more well rounded player. He and Sheed are going to wreak havoc together when they're in.

Anyway, my question was, does anyone have any thoughts about whether you would trade for a small forward or an off guard at the deadline ( assuming a trade will be made with TA and Scal) and why?   

   

[Prof. Clutch]

Wow, suprised to see the level of anti Big Baby sentiment on some of these posts. I think he is far and away the better player over Shelden Williams. I like Williams alot, great addition, great team player, but I see him as a very good role player with limited skills.

Big Baby?

1. Very good passer
2. Good banger and rebounder, space eater around the basket
4. Far superior scorer
5. Plays with an energy that gets people juiced.
6. Probably a top five most physical presence around the basket. There might be 1-2 guys ( if that) who can really move Davis when he doesn't want to be moved. That adds huge value to our rebounding. It hleps all the other guys board well.

Personally, I think Davis can play center and PF mostly, but I do think he can spot at the three in the right situations; one of the reasons is because he can shoot pretty well now.

I don't thinkhe will have any trouble beating out Shelden, he's jsut a much more well rounded player. He and Sheed are going to wreak havoc together when they're in.

Anyway, my question was, does anyone have any thoughts about whether you would trade for a small forward or an off guard at the deadline ( assuming a trade will be made with TA and Scal) and why?   

I don't think that we would be able to trade Scal and TA for a useful player at the 2/3.  I just don't think they will be able to bring in something of value for that package, expiring contracts or not.  I'm sure we could get something for them, but this team is already deep and plays 9 or 10 people a night.  I really don't see how anyone we can get for TA and Scal will be good/talented enough to be able to break into that.

[Prof. Clutch]

I will say that this thread does border on one of the only interesting topics for this Celtics team at the moment.  We are all wondering what will happen when Baby gets back.  Will he crack the rotation right away?  Will he be slow to getting back into it, or never really crack the regular rotation throughout the year?  And how about Shelden?  We haven't seen as much of him recently.  Is he falling out of favor with Doc?  Is he not producing like he was before?

Right now, with the team playing so well, there is little to guess about.  Baby coming back is one of those big questions.  TP for continuing the conversation.

[2short]

Wow, suprised to see the level of anti Big Baby sentiment on some of these posts. I think he is far and away the better player over Shelden Williams. I like Williams alot, great addition, great team player, but I see him as a very good role player with limited skills.

Big Baby?

1. Very good passer
2. Good banger and rebounder, space eater around the basket
4. Far superior scorer
5. Plays with an energy that gets people juiced.
6. Probably a top five most physical presence around the basket. There might be 1-2 guys ( if that) who can really move Davis when he doesn't want to be moved. That adds huge value to our rebounding. It hleps all the other guys board well.

Personally, I think Davis can play center and PF mostly, but I do think he can spot at the three in the right situations; one of the reasons is because he can shoot pretty well now.

I don't thinkhe will have any trouble beating out Shelden, he's jsut a much more well rounded player. He and Sheed are going to wreak havoc together when they're in.

Anyway, my question was, does anyone have any thoughts about whether you would trade for a small forward or an off guard at the deadline ( assuming a trade will be made with TA and Scal) and why?   

   

davis is a good passer, a banger, he is NOT a good rebounder, this might be what limits his minutes
when sheed is in we need a low post guy who can get offensive rebounds
and again davis can in no way guard a sf, think of pp playing against him and paul is by no means the fastest sf in league

[Bankshot]

Wow, suprised to see the level of anti Big Baby sentiment on some of these posts. I think he is far and away the better player over Shelden Williams. I like Williams alot, great addition, great team player, but I see him as a very good role player with limited skills.

Big Baby?

1. Very good passer
2. Good banger and rebounder, space eater around the basket
4. Far superior scorer
5. Plays with an energy that gets people juiced.
6. Probably a top five most physical presence around the basket. There might be 1-2 guys ( if that) who can really move Davis when he doesn't want to be moved. That adds huge value to our rebounding. It hleps all the other guys board well.

Personally, I think Davis can play center and PF mostly, but I do think he can spot at the three in the right situations; one of the reasons is because he can shoot pretty well now.

I don't thinkhe will have any trouble beating out Shelden, he's jsut a much more well rounded player. He and Sheed are going to wreak havoc together when they're in.

Anyway, my question was, does anyone have any thoughts about whether you would trade for a small forward or an off guard at the deadline ( assuming a trade will be made with TA and Scal) and why?   

   

davis is a good passer, a banger, he is NOT a good rebounder, this might be what limits his minutes
when sheed is in we need a low post guy who can get offensive rebounds
and again davis can in no way guard a sf, think of pp playing against him and paul is by no means the fastest sf in league

While Baby is not a great rebounder, his big presence in the paint carves our a lot of room, allowing for his teammates to get rebounds.  This has alwyas been the case with Glen. I look forward to having him back in the rotation.  However, I am concerned that Doc seems to trusting Scal more than Shelden lately.  I know Shelden has bad hands, but what's with Scal getting his minutes?  While I don't think he's as good as Baby, he's certainly better than Scal and I'd like to see Shelden get the bulk of minutes until Baby gets back.

[EJPLAYA]

Wow, suprised to see the level of anti Big Baby sentiment on some of these posts. I think he is far and away the better player over Shelden Williams. I like Williams alot, great addition, great team player, but I see him as a very good role player with limited skills.

Big Baby?

1. Very good passer
2. Good banger and rebounder, space eater around the basket
4. Far superior scorer
5. Plays with an energy that gets people juiced.
6. Probably a top five most physical presence around the basket. There might be 1-2 guys ( if that) who can really move Davis when he doesn't want to be moved. That adds huge value to our rebounding. It hleps all the other guys board well.

Personally, I think Davis can play center and PF mostly, but I do think he can spot at the three in the right situations; one of the reasons is because he can shoot pretty well now.

I don't thinkhe will have any trouble beating out Shelden, he's jsut a much more well rounded player. He and Sheed are going to wreak havoc together when they're in.

Anyway, my question was, does anyone have any thoughts about whether you would trade for a small forward or an off guard at the deadline ( assuming a trade will be made with TA and Scal) and why?   

   

Agree with #5. He does bring more energy to the floor than Shelden.  I also agree that he is a better passer, however neither one of them even average one whole assist a game so I don't know how productive BBD's passing is to us.

100% disagree with #2 as he is a terrible rebounder for a C or PF. I also disagree with him being a better scorer than Shelden. At least the "far superior" part. Shelden is shooting 80% from the free throw line and 50% from the floor. He is averaging 5 pts in 14 minutes where BBD averaged 7 last season in 21 minutes. Considering Sheldens career FG% is almost identical to BBD's, and his Free throw percentage is better, I don't see anything backing up him being a far superior scorer. He's at best the same. Considering Shelden is indeed, and the numbers back it up, a much better rebounder than BBD, where is the big benefit of BBD over Shelden. We already have rebounding issues as a team. Why would you take out one of your best rebounders and put him in for someone who is a poor one and statistically no better in any other part of the game?! Energy only goes so far!