Allen Iverson Is Unretiring, I knew he wasn't done

[Texstyles]

When they got Billups, Denver became a great team, a team that went all the way to the WCFs. When Denver got Iverson they went from a 44 win, first round and out team, to a 45 win, first round and out team, to a 50 win, first round and out team.

I think you were thinking of Chauncey not Iverson

Chauncey was a better fit,  because of Melo.  Den. needed a pass 1st PG because Melo takes a ton of shots. 

[Birdbrain]

A team has to have a certain amount of health before it can be destroyed by cancer.

Both Detroit and Memphis were not healthy teams to begin with to be affected by any type of cancer.

Both teams were rebuilding, they were not good or great teams where one player ruined them.

Anyone who uses the Detroit or Memphis scenarios as examples where Iverson's "cancer" destroyed the team just doesn't hold any water.

Because, now that Iverson is gone from both places, did both those teams recover from the "cancer"?

No. Both teams are still awful.

So because both teams aren't very good to begin with Iverson can't have been a bad teammate and hurt the team? That doesn't make any sense. He was selfish and quit on both teams.

The Philly teams and coaches he quit on were obviously bad teams also.

Yes I remember something about PRACTICE!!! yuk!!!!!!!

[LB3533]

When they got Billups, Denver became a great team, a team that went all the way to the WCFs. When Denver got Iverson they went from a 44 win, first round and out team, to a 45 win, first round and out team, to a 50 win, first round and out team.

I think you were thinking of Chauncey not Iverson

Chauncey got Denver 4 more wins. I don't see how 4 more wins makes the Nuggets great with Billups and merely just very good with Iverson and the Nuggets winning 50 games.

Also, reaching the WCF has a lot to do with the play of your superstars and WHO YOU play in the playoffs.

Billups and the Nuggets faced New Orleans and Dallas...two teams not as strong as the Lakers and the Spurs, the two teams Iverson had to deal with.

[Birdbrain]

Cancer doesn't quit, it keeps killing and killing, spreading all over....

Iverson quitting already proves he's not a cancer.

In all seriousness, Detroit is 5-10, horrible, some "cancer" other than Iverson still remains on the team.

Memphis is also 5-10, who's the "cancer" on that squad?

Oh, look Philly is also 5-10 and there's no sign of Iverson either....


Also in the long run, Iverson felt playing Iverson more would result in a more healthy team a more winning team, because he saw that the teams were losing with him on the bench. Iverson cares about winning.

When his debut with the depleted Nuggets was over Friday night, the feeling was familiar for the former 76er. Another crowd-pleasing performance, 22 points and 10 assists over 39 minutes, wasn’t enough to prevent a loss—101-96 to the Sacramento Kings.

“I’m glad it’s over,” Iverson said. “That’s the only thing I thought about, just getting the first one by me. I wish it could’ve ended with a win. I felt it could’ve ended with a win.”

In his debut, playing on a team with only eight healthy players, the newest Nugget gave the kind of gritty, gutty performance that has become his trademark.

During a stretch late in the third quarter, Iverson was at his tiptoeing, no-look-passing best, giving a preview of the difference he can make to this team.

He made a pair of 3-pointers, created an open 15-footer for himself and also had a sweet pass to Linas Kleiza as part of a big run that gave the Nuggets their first lead since early in the first quarter.

The highlight was a tiptoe down the baseline, followed by a no-look pass to Reggie Evans through traffic in the key for an easy bucket.

The game was tied at 87 with 3 1/2 minutes left when the Kings started pulling away with six straight points on a pair of baskets by Salmons and a layup by Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

Iverson would have had 20 assists were it not for the struggles of his new teammates, many of them unused to the minutes they played and none of them accustomed to receiving the kind of passes Iverson throws.

“I was just playing basketball, taking what the defense gave me,” Iverson said of the Kings, who played a lot of zone trying to stop Iverson. “When they crowded me, and I saw guys open, I made the right plays.”

Iverson finished 9-for-15 and this was one of those rare games in which he may not have shot the ball enough.

Earl Boykins scored 25 points on an 8-for-23 night in which the Nuggets shot 37 percent as a team.

Denver was an OK team before Iverson got there, they had to deal with Melo's maturity issues i.e. suspensions, injuries to a lot key players.....when they got Iverson they became a great team.

Denver never got past the 1st round with Iverson. That isn't great to me.

Yes, Iverson thinks Iverson should be starting. Iverson doesn't realize Iverson isn't Iverson anymore.  Actually he does he just won't admit it out of either stupidity or arrogance.  I didn't want him when he was good (relative term) 3 years ago now he's so washed up that shudder the thought. And it's not even his skills it's his attitude that I don't want around team but, Ainge brought in that nutball Starbury so who knows you might get your wish.

[LB3533]

When they got Billups, Denver became a great team, a team that went all the way to the WCFs. When Denver got Iverson they went from a 44 win, first round and out team, to a 45 win, first round and out team, to a 50 win, first round and out team.

I think you were thinking of Chauncey not Iverson

Chauncey was a better fit,  because of Melo.  Den. needed a pass 1st PG because Melo takes a ton of shots. 

The Nuggets, with Iverson averaged more assists in those 2 seasons when compared with the Nuggets + Billups.

Melo's FGA's actually went down last year with Billups "a pass first PG".

Billups' addition helped more so with the likes of feeding JR Smith off picks and with dumping the ball down into Nene Hilario than it does with passing the ball to Melo.

[LB3533]

Cancer doesn't quit, it keeps killing and killing, spreading all over....

Iverson quitting already proves he's not a cancer.

In all seriousness, Detroit is 5-10, horrible, some "cancer" other than Iverson still remains on the team.

Memphis is also 5-10, who's the "cancer" on that squad?

Oh, look Philly is also 5-10 and there's no sign of Iverson either....


Also in the long run, Iverson felt playing Iverson more would result in a more healthy team a more winning team, because he saw that the teams were losing with him on the bench. Iverson cares about winning.

When his debut with the depleted Nuggets was over Friday night, the feeling was familiar for the former 76er. Another crowd-pleasing performance, 22 points and 10 assists over 39 minutes, wasn’t enough to prevent a loss—101-96 to the Sacramento Kings.

“I’m glad it’s over,” Iverson said. “That’s the only thing I thought about, just getting the first one by me. I wish it could’ve ended with a win. I felt it could’ve ended with a win.”

In his debut, playing on a team with only eight healthy players, the newest Nugget gave the kind of gritty, gutty performance that has become his trademark.

During a stretch late in the third quarter, Iverson was at his tiptoeing, no-look-passing best, giving a preview of the difference he can make to this team.

He made a pair of 3-pointers, created an open 15-footer for himself and also had a sweet pass to Linas Kleiza as part of a big run that gave the Nuggets their first lead since early in the first quarter.

The highlight was a tiptoe down the baseline, followed by a no-look pass to Reggie Evans through traffic in the key for an easy bucket.

The game was tied at 87 with 3 1/2 minutes left when the Kings started pulling away with six straight points on a pair of baskets by Salmons and a layup by Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

Iverson would have had 20 assists were it not for the struggles of his new teammates, many of them unused to the minutes they played and none of them accustomed to receiving the kind of passes Iverson throws.

“I was just playing basketball, taking what the defense gave me,” Iverson said of the Kings, who played a lot of zone trying to stop Iverson. “When they crowded me, and I saw guys open, I made the right plays.”

Iverson finished 9-for-15 and this was one of those rare games in which he may not have shot the ball enough.

Earl Boykins scored 25 points on an 8-for-23 night in which the Nuggets shot 37 percent as a team.

Denver was an OK team before Iverson got there, they had to deal with Melo's maturity issues i.e. suspensions, injuries to a lot key players.....when they got Iverson they became a great team.

Denver never got past the 1st round with Iverson. That isn't great to me.

Yes, Iverson thinks Iverson should be starting. Iverson doesn't realize Iverson isn't Iverson anymore.  Actually he does he just won't admit it out of either stupidity or arrogance.  I didn't want him when he was good (relative term) 3 years ago now he's so washed up that shudder the thought. And it's not even his skills it's his attitude that I don't want around team but, Ainge brought in that nutball Starbury so who knows you might get your wish.

It was all circumstance that Denver wasn't the 8th seed last year.

Had Utah played up to their potential, like the season before, the Nuggets wouldn't be Northwest champions.

[Who]

Playoff Run

Agreed -- Denver was extremely lucky to make the Conference Finals last season.

* If New Orleans, Dallas or San Antonio had been healthy ... I think Denver lose.
* If Utah was healthy ... Denver doesn't get the #3 seed.

The West was weak and the Nuggets got an easy road to the Conference Finals. Then they met a truly elite team and were beaten comfortably.

Improvement

And a lot Denver's improvement was down to Nene and Kenyon Martin both being healthy. Those two are the backbone to Denver's defense. And they always have been. Denver's defensive improvement was the leading factor in their overall improvement.

Then comes the Chauncey Billups vs Allen Iverson factor which is a clear and important upgrade for Denver.

[nickagneta]

When they got Billups, Denver became a great team, a team that went all the way to the WCFs. When Denver got Iverson they went from a 44 win, first round and out team, to a 45 win, first round and out team, to a 50 win, first round and out team.

I think you were thinking of Chauncey not Iverson

Chauncey got Denver 4 more wins. I don't see how 4 more wins makes the Nuggets great with Billups and merely just very good with Iverson and the Nuggets winning 50 games.

Also, reaching the WCF has a lot to do with the play of your superstars and WHO YOU play in the playoffs.

Billups and the Nuggets faced New Orleans and Dallas...two teams not as strong as the Lakers and the Spurs, the two teams Iverson had to deal with.

Iverson's Nuggets never got past the first round. Period. End of story. In 2006 the Iverson Nuggets lost to the CLIPPERS in the first round. In 2007 they lost to the Spurs in the first round. In 2008 they lost to the Lakers in the first round in four straight. In 2009, the Billups Nuggets, with the virtually exact same crew as the 2008 AI Nuggets, lost in the Western Conference Finals to virtually  the exact same Laker team as the 2008 Lakers and lost in 6 games.

You want to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson based on how many assists Iverson got versus Billups or how many more or less shots Melo got with Iverson and not Billups, go ahead. Most of us are going to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson versus those Nuggets with Billups the old fashioned way. Wins and losses. The Billups Nuggets won more regular season games, more post season games, more post season series and more games versus the same Laker team that Iverson's Nuggets couldn't beat.

By measuring Iverson's success in points and shots and assists, all you are doing is showing that your priorities and outlooks on basketball are the same as those of Iverson. They are about the stats and the legacy and not about the rings. There's a reason why Chauncey has a ring and Iverson doesn't. It's the same reason that the current Nuggets are better than they ever could have been under Iverson. But after two weeks of having people tell you what those reasons are, you still are NOT understanding which, to me, shows you never will. Just like Iverson!!!

[Thruthelookingglass]

AI= NBA Favre?

AI = NBA Jeff George.

[soap07]

Iverson's Nuggets never got past the first round. Period. End of story. In 2006 the Iverson Nuggets lost to the CLIPPERS in the first round. In 2007 they lost to the Spurs in the first round. In 2008 they lost to the Lakers in the first round in four straight. In 2009, the Billups Nuggets, with the virtually exact same crew as the 2008 AI Nuggets, lost in the Western Conference Finals to virtually  the exact same Laker team as the 2008 Lakers and lost in 6 games.

You want to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson based on how many assists Iverson got versus Billups or how many more or less shots Melo got with Iverson and not Billups, go ahead. Most of us are going to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson versus those Nuggets with Billups the old fashioned way. Wins and losses. The Billups Nuggets won more regular season games, more post season games, more post season series and more games versus the same Laker team that Iverson's Nuggets couldn't beat.

By measuring Iverson's success in points and shots and assists, all you are doing is showing that your priorities and outlooks on basketball are the same as those of Iverson. They are about the stats and the legacy and not about the rings. There's a reason why Chauncey has a ring and Iverson doesn't. It's the same reason that the current Nuggets are better than they ever could have been under Iverson. But after two weeks of having people tell you what those reasons are, you still are NOT understanding which, to me, shows you never will. Just like Iverson!!!

Well, a couple inaccuracies in here, I believe. First, when did an Iverson-led Nuggets team lose to the Clippers in the playoffs? Secondly, the crew Billups led was not the exact same. That's flat out inaccurate. How a healthy Nene and KMart get completely disregarded in addition to the huge pick up of Chris Anderson is beyond me. 

That's not to say Billups wasn't a better fit than AI, I'm just point out - Billups had more beef down low than AI did and a better roster with the Nuggets.

[soap07]

Also, on the Nuggets not getting out of the first round with Iverson, who, out of the two teams that Denver lost to was it supposed to beat? The Spurs went on and won the championship while the Lakers rolled to the Finals.

[nickagneta]

Iverson's Nuggets never got past the first round. Period. End of story. In 2006 the Iverson Nuggets lost to the CLIPPERS in the first round. In 2007 they lost to the Spurs in the first round. In 2008 they lost to the Lakers in the first round in four straight. In 2009, the Billups Nuggets, with the virtually exact same crew as the 2008 AI Nuggets, lost in the Western Conference Finals to virtually  the exact same Laker team as the 2008 Lakers and lost in 6 games.

You want to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson based on how many assists Iverson got versus Billups or how many more or less shots Melo got with Iverson and not Billups, go ahead. Most of us are going to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson versus those Nuggets with Billups the old fashioned way. Wins and losses. The Billups Nuggets won more regular season games, more post season games, more post season series and more games versus the same Laker team that Iverson's Nuggets couldn't beat.

By measuring Iverson's success in points and shots and assists, all you are doing is showing that your priorities and outlooks on basketball are the same as those of Iverson. They are about the stats and the legacy and not about the rings. There's a reason why Chauncey has a ring and Iverson doesn't. It's the same reason that the current Nuggets are better than they ever could have been under Iverson. But after two weeks of having people tell you what those reasons are, you still are NOT understanding which, to me, shows you never will. Just like Iverson!!!

Well, a couple inaccuracies in here, I believe. First, when did an Iverson-led Nuggets team lose to the Clippers in the playoffs? Secondly, the crew Billups led was not the exact same. That's flat out inaccurate. How a healthy Nene and KMart get completely disregarded in addition to the huge pick up of Chris Anderson is beyond me. 

That's not to say Billups wasn't a better fit than AI, I'm just point out - Billups had more beef down low than AI did and a better roster with the Nuggets.

TP

There was some inaccuracies like the Clippers. I went back one year too many, my bad.


But Nene was available versus that Lakers team. Nene did play in three games and Kenyon Martin did play 30 minutes per game versus the Lakers in the 2008 playoffs going for almost 9 PPG and 9 RPG, which is pretty close to his career playoff numbers. KMart also played 71 games that year. Nene and Najera gave the Nuggets almost as much as Anderson did to the Nuggets in 2009.  Also, if you don't consider Marcus Camby a better player and contributor than Nene, then throws that argument out the window and I don't know if we can discuss this further. So the big huge difference between those teams is really only AI/Billups.

[KungPoweChicken]

Iverson's Nuggets never got past the first round. Period. End of story. In 2006 the Iverson Nuggets lost to the CLIPPERS in the first round. In 2007 they lost to the Spurs in the first round. In 2008 they lost to the Lakers in the first round in four straight. In 2009, the Billups Nuggets, with the virtually exact same crew as the 2008 AI Nuggets, lost in the Western Conference Finals to virtually  the exact same Laker team as the 2008 Lakers and lost in 6 games.

You want to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson based on how many assists Iverson got versus Billups or how many more or less shots Melo got with Iverson and not Billups, go ahead. Most of us are going to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson versus those Nuggets with Billups the old fashioned way. Wins and losses. The Billups Nuggets won more regular season games, more post season games, more post season series and more games versus the same Laker team that Iverson's Nuggets couldn't beat.

By measuring Iverson's success in points and shots and assists, all you are doing is showing that your priorities and outlooks on basketball are the same as those of Iverson. They are about the stats and the legacy and not about the rings. There's a reason why Chauncey has a ring and Iverson doesn't. It's the same reason that the current Nuggets are better than they ever could have been under Iverson. But after two weeks of having people tell you what those reasons are, you still are NOT understanding which, to me, shows you never will. Just like Iverson!!!

Well, a couple inaccuracies in here, I believe. First, when did an Iverson-led Nuggets team lose to the Clippers in the playoffs? Secondly, the crew Billups led was not the exact same. That's flat out inaccurate. How a healthy Nene and KMart get completely disregarded in addition to the huge pick up of Chris Anderson is beyond me. 

That's not to say Billups wasn't a better fit than AI, I'm just point out - Billups had more beef down low than AI did and a better roster with the Nuggets.

TP

There was some inaccuracies like the Clippers. I went back one year too many, my bad. And Nene was unavailable versus that Lakers team.

But then again, Nene did play in three of games and Kenyon Martin did play 30 minutes per game versus the Lakers in the 2008 playoffs going for almost 9 PPG and 9 RPG, which is pretty close to his career playoff numbers. KMart also played 71 games that year. Nene and Najera gave the Nuggets almost as much as Anderson did to the Nuggets in 2009.  Also, if you don't consider Marcus Camby a better player and contributor than Nene and then throws that argument out the window, then I don't know if we can discuss this further. So the big huge difference between those teams is really only AI/Billups.

What you fail to point out is that Martin, for all practical purposes, missed the whole season the previous year, and he was, any Nuggests fan can tell you, largely ineffective in the 07-08 season, no matter what the stats tell you. Moreover, as was already said, Nene was not the same player; and, for that matter, neither was JR Smith.

[Witch-King]

Iverson's Nuggets never got past the first round. Period. End of story. In 2006 the Iverson Nuggets lost to the CLIPPERS in the first round. In 2007 they lost to the Spurs in the first round. In 2008 they lost to the Lakers in the first round in four straight. In 2009, the Billups Nuggets, with the virtually exact same crew as the 2008 AI Nuggets, lost in the Western Conference Finals to virtually  the exact same Laker team as the 2008 Lakers and lost in 6 games.

You want to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson based on how many assists Iverson got versus Billups or how many more or less shots Melo got with Iverson and not Billups, go ahead. Most of us are going to measure how good the Nuggets were with Iverson versus those Nuggets with Billups the old fashioned way. Wins and losses. The Billups Nuggets won more regular season games, more post season games, more post season series and more games versus the same Laker team that Iverson's Nuggets couldn't beat.

By measuring Iverson's success in points and shots and assists, all you are doing is showing that your priorities and outlooks on basketball are the same as those of Iverson. They are about the stats and the legacy and not about the rings. There's a reason why Chauncey has a ring and Iverson doesn't. It's the same reason that the current Nuggets are better than they ever could have been under Iverson. But after two weeks of having people tell you what those reasons are, you still are NOT understanding which, to me, shows you never will. Just like Iverson!!!

Well, a couple inaccuracies in here, I believe. First, when did an Iverson-led Nuggets team lose to the Clippers in the playoffs? Secondly, the crew Billups led was not the exact same. That's flat out inaccurate. How a healthy Nene and KMart get completely disregarded in addition to the huge pick up of Chris Anderson is beyond me. 

That's not to say Billups wasn't a better fit than AI, I'm just point out - Billups had more beef down low than AI did and a better roster with the Nuggets.

lol, maybe he was just making light of the fact that both A.I. and Carmelo cut their braids off last season after Iverson was traded to Detroit. Either way, Kenyon Martin is integral to the Nuggets' success at the defensive end of the court, as someone mentioned earlier. Kenyon was a part of the New Jersey Nets team (including Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson, and Brian Scalabrine) that made it to the NBA Finals and lost to the same Spurs and Lakers teams that he is complaining about the Nuggets' inability to overcome (with or without Iverson). Sounds like a hater to me -- Allen Iverson on the Sixers was the only player out of all of these discussed who has been able to take a game off of the Lakers in the Finals. In fact, during the season whence the Sixers made it to the Finals the Lakers were threatening to go throughout the entire playoffs w/o losing a single game - that was the only game the Lakers lost during their entire playoff run that season.

[Who]

What you fail to point out is that Martin, for all practical purposes, missed the whole season the previous year, and he was, any Nuggests fan can tell you, largely ineffective in the 07-08 season, no matter what the stats tell you. Moreover, as was already said, Nene was not the same player; and, for that matter, neither was JR Smith.

I think Chauncey Billups deserves a lot of credit for JR Smith's improvement. He's been an excellent big brother figure for him both on and off the court. Helping him handle himself better off the court, practice habits, work ethic, and a better understanding of how to play. Iverson, reportedly, had the opposite effect.

I agree, one can't include Nene on that playoff roster. He wasn't healthy. Nowhere close to being healthy. What did he play? 20-50 ineffectual minutes? (30 minutes, looked it up) After a season of sitting out with cancer (cancer?)? C'mon, Nene can't be included as part of that team.

Kenyon Martin wasn't as good in 2007-08 as he was last season but he was still most of the ways there.

 Also, if you don't consider Marcus Camby a better player and contributor than Nene, then throws that argument out the window and I don't know if we can discuss this further.

I gotta disagree here. I don't think Camby comes close to Nene's abilities defensively or offensively.

I think Nene is a vastly superior all-round man-to-man defender, particularly in the low post, a vastly superior pick and roll defender, and a generally superior team defender. Camby gets a few more weakside blocks.

Camby is a better rebounder but not by much because Nene actually puts a body on someone and keeps the opponent off the glass, unlike Camby who gets big rebounding numbers but also gives up big rebounding numbers to opponents. Look at the team rebounding numbers for this -- Camby's Nuggets got beat on the backboards overall (100 boards over a season) + while he was on the floor (48.8% on vs 48.5% off). Nene's Nuggets out-rebounded their opponent overall (30 boards over the season) + when he was on the floor (50.5% on vs 48.5% off).

Offensively, Nene has a much better jump shot, sets better screens and is a lot more effective in pick and roll situations, has better hands, is more efficient (TS% of 60=% his last three healthy years) and is a better finisher around the rim. He also runs the floor better than Camby does.

I think Nene is a vastly superior player to Marcus Camby.