Red Sox Are Goin After Roy Halladay

[jambr380]

Only 8 teams make it to the playoffs every year in baseball. It's not like basketball or hockey where 'most' of the teams make it. Just by making it to the playoffs every year, you show you are a championship contender. Yeah, I want the best players possible on this team, but I am not some insane person who wants to start from scratch if we don't get Halladay (for instance)...

We are VERY lucky to have the Red Sox here in Boston. They have consistently been able to compete against the Yankees. It is the one sport without a salary cap (and I am strongly for one), what are we going to do, trade Youk, Pedroia, Beckett, Papelbon, and Lester for 'prospects? That makes a lot of sense, right? Go talk to the Royals, Pirates, Reds, etc to see how trading their best players has gone.

I'm sorry but I don't consider a top 8 team a serious contender, I consider it an also ran. Top 4 or nothing, and they haven't been top 4 in a long time.  I suggest they should put up the money for players like Halladay and Texiera when they can

So when you say long time, do you mean two months ago? The Red Sox consistently make it through the first round of the playoffs and, in case you forgot, they have won two world series since 2004.

Yeah, the days of Pedro, Manny and Ortiz are in the past, but the new core of players is very solid and on decent contracts. You are right, they should sign somebody with 'pop'. The thing is, the Yankees can outspend anybody and they decided to re-tool last year...hey, have I mentioned I hate the salary cap situation in baseball?

Man, I have gotten so used to this blog and mainly talking about the Celtics. In comparison, Red Sox fans are totally irrational. Blow up the team? PAH-LEEEEASE!

[Tr1boy]

 We will give up a blue chip pitcher just coming into his own in Bucholz for a 1 year rental player in Halladay.

Then Halladay will want 20 + million per season and will go off to the yankees.

The redsox need to wake up and understand its the offense thats the biggest issue right now. We need a ramirez replacement pronto. Someone who will install fear into opposing pitchers

[Chris]

We will give up a blue chip pitcher just coming into his own in Bucholz for a 1 year rental player in Halladay.

Then Halladay will want 20 + million per season and will go off to the yankees.

The redsox need to wake up and understand its the offense thats the biggest issue right now. We need a ramirez replacement pronto. Someone who will install fear into opposing pitchers

I don't see the Sox even consider this trade (especially if it is Bucholtz AND Kelly) unless they can work out an extension before the trade goes through. 

Ultimately, I hope this trade does not happen though.  It worries me the number of miles are on Halladay's arm, and more importantly, the assets they would use on Halladay would be much more useful if used to bring in an impact middle of the order bat.  This team has really struggled against good pitching the last 2 years.  Having Halladay hold the Yankees to 3 runs in the playoffs is not going to mean anything if the Sox are getting shut out by CC.  They need a bat more than anything.

[winsomme]

We will give up a blue chip pitcher just coming into his own in Bucholz for a 1 year rental player in Halladay.

Then Halladay will want 20 + million per season and will go off to the yankees.

The redsox need to wake up and understand its the offense thats the biggest issue right now. We need a ramirez replacement pronto. Someone who will install fear into opposing pitchers

I don't see the Sox even consider this trade (especially if it is Bucholtz AND Kelly) unless they can work out an extension before the trade goes through. 

Ultimately, I hope this trade does not happen though.  It worries me the number of miles are on Halladay's arm, and more importantly, the assets they would use on Halladay would be much more useful if used to bring in an impact middle of the order bat.  This team has really struggled against good pitching the last 2 years.  Having Halladay hold the Yankees to 3 runs in the playoffs is not going to mean anything if the Sox are getting shut out by CC.  They need a bat more than anything.

Agreed on both counts, Chris. I don't see the Sox doing a deal without nailing down an extension. That or they don't offer a primo package of Buch/Bard.

Also would prefer a bat to an arm. The only arm i would even consider for our top prospects is Felix because he has electric stuff and you can build a mighty staff around him and Lester.

But bats are the real commodity in MLB. We don't have one in the pipeline that is can't miss and we are going to have a tough time beating the Yanks in any FA battle. So, if we are going to get the bat, we need to go through a trade.

I hope the Cabrera talks heat up because I really want to get to know this guy better and what exactly all his stuff is about...need to take a closer look at him.

[LB3533]

I agree, I don't want this trade to happen.

Maybe the Red Sox just leaked out this Halliday information as a smoke screen.

He'll be a FA after next season, why trade for him now? We could wait one more season and sign him as a FA without giving anything up.

I would rather we sign Lackey or just trust Daiske to return to normal and trade Buckholtz in a package for Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrerra.

[winsomme]

I agree, I don't want this trade to happen.

Maybe the Red Sox just leaked out this Halliday information as a smoke screen.

He'll be a FA after next season, why trade for him now? We could wait one more season and sign him as a FA without giving anything up.

I would rather we sign Lackey or just trust Daiske to return to normal and trade Buckholtz in a package for Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrerra.

I think Cabrera kinda fell off the MLB radar a couple years ago because he got a rep for being lazy and overweight.

But man, just look at his stats. they haven't suffered.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cabremi01.shtml

He was considered otherworldly in his first few seasons playing. His rep may be taking a hit, but his game actually seems to be at megastar level.

I do worry about the personal off-field stuff and would like to know the situation a little better.

[jambr380]

I agree, I don't want this trade to happen.

Maybe the Red Sox just leaked out this Halliday information as a smoke screen.

He'll be a FA after next season, why trade for him now? We could wait one more season and sign him as a FA without giving anything up.

I would rather we sign Lackey or just trust Daiske to return to normal and trade Buckholtz in a package for Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrerra.

I think Cabrera kinda fell off the MLB radar a couple years ago because he got a rep for being lazy and overweight.

But man, just look at his stats. they haven't suffered.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cabremi01.shtml

He was considered otherworldly in his first few seasons playing. His rep may be taking a hit, but his game actually seems to be at megastar level.

I do worry about the personal off-field stuff and would like to know the situation a little better.

I especially like his batting average (he is always well over .300) in comparison to our very own, Jason Bay. If we could somehow acquire him, then that would make the loss of Bay much more bearable.

What is up with Bay anyway? Any talks about Holliday as a possible replacement? I would like to keep him, but if he declined 4yrs/60mill, I don't really see it happening...

[winsomme]

I agree, I don't want this trade to happen.

Maybe the Red Sox just leaked out this Halliday information as a smoke screen.

He'll be a FA after next season, why trade for him now? We could wait one more season and sign him as a FA without giving anything up.

I would rather we sign Lackey or just trust Daiske to return to normal and trade Buckholtz in a package for Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrerra.

I think Cabrera kinda fell off the MLB radar a couple years ago because he got a rep for being lazy and overweight.

But man, just look at his stats. they haven't suffered.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cabremi01.shtml

He was considered otherworldly in his first few seasons playing. His rep may be taking a hit, but his game actually seems to be at megastar level.

I do worry about the personal off-field stuff and would like to know the situation a little better.

I especially like his batting average (he is always well over .300) in comparison to our very own, Jason Bay. If we could somehow acquire him, then that would make the loss of Bay much more bearable.

What is up with Bay anyway? Any talks about Holliday as a possible replacement? I would like to keep him, but if he declined 4yrs/60mill, I don't really see it happening...

totally agree! straight batting average in these days of money ball has taken a back seat to OBP.

personally, I want a guy that hits AND hits for power. Those are the guys that are truly feared in this league. That's why Manny and Papi were the best tandem in baseball.

and I think VMart (playing 1st) and Cabrera could be that kind of tandem. add to that Youk, Papi, Pedroia...60+ steals Ellsbury, etc...that's the direction i hope we are headed.

[LB3533]

Adding Cabrerra would instantly make the rest of our hitters better.

We had a similar effect once V. Martinez came over, cept Martinez was just super clutch in his own right.

[jasail]

Only 8 teams make it to the playoffs every year in baseball. It's not like basketball or hockey where 'most' of the teams make it. Just by making it to the playoffs every year, you show you are a championship contender. Yeah, I want the best players possible on this team, but I am not some insane person who wants to start from scratch if we don't get Halladay (for instance)...

We are VERY lucky to have the Red Sox here in Boston. They have consistently been able to compete against the Yankees. It is the one sport without a salary cap (and I am strongly for one), what are we going to do, trade Youk, Pedroia, Beckett, Papelbon, and Lester for 'prospects? That makes a lot of sense, right? Go talk to the Royals, Pirates, Reds, etc to see how trading their best players has gone.

I'm sorry but I don't consider a top 8 team a serious contender, I consider it an also ran. Top 4 or nothing, and they haven't been top 4 in a long time.  I suggest they should put up the money for players like Halladay and Texiera when they can

Bit of a knee jerk reaction no?  Were they not in Game 7 of the ALCS two seasons ago and WS champs the season before that.  So in past 3 seasons they were arguably the # 1, 3 and 5 team in the game.  So enough hyperbole.

IMO acquiring Halladay is a waste of resources and comes with a considerable oppurtunity cost.  If you trade for Roy you get a 1 year rental and giving up at least 2 of your top pitching prospects.  Then at the end of the year you have to give Roy 100M over 5yr, maybe with an option. 

In trading for him the Sox improve from Roy to Clay, destroy organizational depth at SP, limit our trade prospects to high A players for deals for an impact bat and probably decrease the chances of being major players in the significantly better 2010 FA market. 

Again IMO you use Clay to trade for a proven costo controlled impact bat or a young impact arm and you spend the FA money on Lackey.  That way you steady the rotation, you loose depth but add depth (Clay/Lackey) and you add an impact player. 

Clay for Halladay ties up too many resources in terms of players and money.  And it brings back a great pitcher on the bad side of 30 who will eat payroll into the real bad side of 30.

Horrible idea.  I think it is Toronto's way of starting a bidding war.  Maybe trying to get Joba/Phil out of NYY. 

[yall hate]

i agree with house. we don't have any hitters in our lineup who are feared by opposing pitchers. We have a lot of balance up and down our lineup which bodes well for making the playoffs, but in the playoffs you need some steel in the middle of the order.

I think VMart could be a feared hitter if he wasn't catching. but catching takes enough out of the legs over the course of the season IMO to make it difficult to sustain the same kind of presence at the plate.

If we were able to trade for Cabrera, it would totally change the complexion of our offense.

and like i said before, I would let Tek catch (at the very least two of the pichers) and move VMart to first.

then our lineup is:

Ellsbury
Pedroia
VMart
Cabrera
Papi
Youk
Drew
Tek
SS
<Lowell platooning at third and DH>

that's a fearsome lineup.

sign Lackey as a FA and our starters are:

Beckett
Lester
LAckey
Dice K
Wake

re-sign Wagner and our 6,7,8,9 is:

Okajima
Wagner
Bard
Papelbon

your starting lineup confuses me: 

Ellsbury (cf)
Pedroia (2b)
VMart (1b)
Cabrera (?)
Papi (DH)
Youk (3b?)
Drew (of)
Tek (c)
SS (ss)

So you have youk, a gold glove caliber first and/or 3b either moving to the of, so that Cabrera can play 3b (which he cant, because he is fat).  or you have cabrera playing the of, which he cant because he is fat.

And dont you (and all the others wanting to trade for cabrera) think that there may be a reason that such a feared, young hitter is even possibly available?  it isnt the money. I think it could be that he is a poor locker room influence.  you know, getting drunk and beating up his wife the night before a playoff elimination game?

not to mention, you are adding ~50 million to the payroll.  (isnt cabrera at 20+, lackey is going to get 15-20, Wagner was offered arb, and is likely to get 7-10, if he accepts arbitration)

[MBz]

Pointless trade, only way I am trading Clay is if the Sox are going to get Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrera in return.  Apparently, the Sox are not going after Halladay anymore and will be focusing on Lackey.  Is Theo seeing something that we aren't?  Pretty sure we need a bat and that should be our #1 focus. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Boston-Red-Sox-laying-off-Halladay-and-concentra;_ylt=AhGy2fAjyL.rEPk6cMW4IyyFCLcF?urn=mlb,205512

[xmuscularghandix]

Pointless trade, only way I am trading Clay is if the Sox are going to get Adrian Gonzalez or Miguel Cabrera in return.  Apparently, the Sox are not going after Halladay anymore and will be focusing on Lackey.  Is Theo seeing something that we aren't?  Pretty sure we need a bat and that should be our #1 focus. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Boston-Red-Sox-laying-off-Halladay-and-concentra;_ylt=AhGy2fAjyL.rEPk6cMW4IyyFCLcF?urn=mlb,205512

Well to get Lackey it only takes money, not prospects.

That saves prospects that could be used to get players like Gonzalez, Cabrera, or in a dream world Hanley Ramirez.(although we did just let our SS walk away, and Jed is more valuable as a utility SS,2B,3B)

[Quinn]

I saw on the news today that the redsox have a preference for matt holliday over jason bay, so they're pursuing him first.

[MBz]

Right, I mean the more pitching the better, but I just don't think it needs to be the primary need on this team right now.  You have Beckett, Lester, Dice-K, Buchholz and Wakefield, I am assuming that is your rotation going into the season unless an injury occurs.  Where does Lackey fit?  I understand going after a guy like Ben Sheets, but not Lackey.  I also prefer Holliday over Bay.  If bay wants the same money as Holliday, the sox need to let Bay walk.