Idea for Red Sox Trade for Mauer

[Big_Matt34]

This is just one example based on the assumption that Tex and Mauer are in the same zip code in terms of MVP calibar talent.  That was in 2007.  No one in that trade going to Texas is in the zip code of Clay or Victor.  Why would Mauer draw dramatically more value than Teixeira (plus Mahay) did?

He is a great defensive catcher who has a career OPS of .892, he isnt 27 until next April, and he is the hometown kid who is a STAR in Minnesota, by far their most popular athlete.

Texiera is a very good player, but a great hitting first basemen is much easier to find than a great hitting/great defensive catcher. He is worth quite a bit more than Texiera, it would take a package somewhere in the neighborhood of Clay/Westmoreland/Kalish/Westmoreland/Pimantel because they wouldnt want Victor, they want young players who they control for years. Not only is he a great, great player, but if the Twins trade him they lose a ton of fan support which they flat out cannot afford with the new stadium opening. Also, Andrus/Feliz/Harrison/Jones was an awesome package for Tex, and Mauer should take more than that.

The Twins are gonna sign him to a huge deal worth 20+ million sooner rather than later IMO.

[nickagneta]

Sorry, but it's not good value. It's not even close to good value. It isn't even in the same zip code as good value.

This is the Teixeira trade:

Rangers sent Teixeira and reliever Ron Mahay to the Braves for catcher Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Minor League shortstop Elvis Andrus and pitchers Matt Harrison, Neftali Feliz and Beau Jones

This is just one example based on the assumption that Tex and Mauer are in the same zip code in terms of MVP calibar talent.  That was in 2007.  No one in that trade going to Texas is in the zip code of Clay or Victor.  Why would Mauer draw dramatically more value than Teixeira (plus Mahay) did?

Actually that trade kind of proves my point.

At the time of the trade Saltamacchia was considered one of the best young catching prospects in the entire league and  Beau Jones was one of Atlanta's top prospects with a 5-0 minor league record and 2.49 ERA. Neftali Feliz was considered a raw, top of the rotation prospect and is currently the Rangers top pitching prospect with scary good ace projection written all over him. He tops off at 99MPH and has improving and great secondary stuff and has an unreal strikeout/9 inning ratio at about 11. Andrus is now the Rangers starting shortshop and had a very, very promising rookie year for a 21 year old. Harrison is currently the Rangers #3 starter and at the time of the trade was Atlanta's second or third best prospect. If not for an injury last year you may have heard a lot more from Harrison.

Look at that trade and say the Rangers got nothing but at the time of the trade Atlanta gave up a lot of their future top prospects. Saltimacchia hasn't panned out offensively as much as expected and Harrison got injured but Texas is now looking at possibly getting their SS of the future(a pretty good one), a strong #3 starter who's a lefty and probably their top of the rotation ace. That was a great trade for Texas that will be paying dividends for years to come and it is the exact type of trade that Minnesota will be looking for.

[Vermont Green]

Texiera is a very good player, but a great hitting first basemen is MUCH easier to find than a great hitting/great defensive catcher. He is worth quite a bit more than Texiera,

If Mauer is much better than Teixeira, do you think the Yankees would make that trade straight up (and then move Posada to 1st for example)?

I think Mauer is great player but I am not sure I wouldn't rather have Teixeira on the Sox.

[Vermont Green]

Look at that trade and say the Rangers got nothing

I am not saying that at all.  Minni would be getting an all star calibar catcher, not potential but proven veteran consistent performer.  They also get a proven major league starter who has done much more than the Texas pitchers and is still improving with as much if not more potential than any of the pitchers Texas got.  Throw in an emerging positional prospect or two and this blows away what Texas got.  There is much less risk in this package as the two keys are proven, not just potential, much better for Minni who still has a chance to win now, not wait 3-5 years.

[Big_Matt34]

If Mauer is much better than Teixeira, do you think the Yankees would make that trade straight up (and then move Posada to 1st for example)?

I think Mauer is great player but I am not sure I wouldn't rather have Teixeira on the Sox.

Yes i think the Yankees do that, first basemen are easier to find than catchers. Posada is getting older and theyd get the best catcher in baseball for 8 years or so.

For the Sox if we could pick one of Mauer or Tex its definately Mauer, we have Youk at 1st who put up a better OPS than Texiera at half the money.

[nickagneta]

Look at that trade and say the Rangers got nothing

I am not saying that at all.  Minni would be getting an all star calibar catcher, not potential but proven veteran consistent performer.  They also get a proven major league starter who has done much more than the Texas pitchers and is still improving with as much if not more potential than any of the pitchers Texas got.  Throw in an emerging positional prospect or two and this blows away what Texas got.  There is much less risk in this package as the two keys are proven, not just potential, much better for Minni who still has a chance to win now, not wait 3-5 years.

You aren't getting this. They don't want, nor will they ask for Victor Martinez. Yes, Buchholz would have to be part of the package but so would at least two more top of the line pitching prospects and two positional prospects. That Atlanta-Texas trade is the EXACT type of trade package Minny would want. It gives them high level talent, cost control, and player possession control for years and years to come. In a smaller market, that's more important than landing Martinez.

You just aren't getting the business end of this and are thinking just the baseball end. Trades of this type don't work that way.

[jambr380]

Look at that trade and say the Rangers got nothing

I am not saying that at all.  Minni would be getting an all star calibar catcher, not potential but proven veteran consistent performer.  They also get a proven major league starter who has done much more than the Texas pitchers and is still improving with as much if not more potential than any of the pitchers Texas got.  Throw in an emerging positional prospect or two and this blows away what Texas got.  There is much less risk in this package as the two keys are proven, not just potential, much better for Minni who still has a chance to win now, not wait 3-5 years.

You aren't getting this. They don't want, nor will they ask for Victor Martinez. Yes, Buchholz would have to be part of the package but so would at least two more top of the line pitching prospects and two positional prospects. That Atlanta-Texas trade is the EXACT type of trade package Minny would want. It gives them high level talent, cost control, and player possession control for years and years to come. In a smaller market, that's more important than landing Martinez.

You just aren't getting the business end of this and are thinking just the baseball end. Trades of this type don't work that way.

If the Twins are pretty sure they can sign him long term, then yes, it would take a ton of top line prospects, plus Bucholz. You are right that they may not be interested in Victor, but I can't imagine they wouldn't at least kick the tires with him.

If the Twins make a decision that they simply can't afford him, then maybe they are more likely to take a Bucholz plus very good prospect trade, since they would lose him anyway. I tend to agree with you that trading Morneau may be their best option if they 'run out of money'.

Basically, it's too bad for them that this is even a discussion. The Twins should be able to keep all of their top players, not lose them to higher payroll teams because they are forced to trade them (or worse, lose them to free agency), but I guess that is a discussion for another time and place.

[winsomme]

This is just one example based on the assumption that Tex and Mauer are in the same zip code in terms of MVP calibar talent.  That was in 2007.  No one in that trade going to Texas is in the zip code of Clay or Victor.  Why would Mauer draw dramatically more value than Teixeira (plus Mahay) did?

He is a great defensive catcher who has a career OPS of .892, he isnt 27 until next April, and he is the hometown kid who is a STAR in Minnesota, by far their most popular athlete.

Texiera is a very good player, but a great hitting first basemen is much easier to find than a great hitting/great defensive catcher. He is worth quite a bit more than Texiera, it would take a package somewhere in the neighborhood of Clay/Westmoreland/Kalish/Westmoreland/Pimantel because they wouldnt want Victor, they want young players who they control for years. Not only is he a great, great player, but if the Twins trade him they lose a ton of fan support which they flat out cannot afford with the new stadium opening. Also, Andrus/Feliz/Harrison/Jones was an awesome package for Tex, and Mauer should take more than that.

The Twins are gonna sign him to a huge deal worth 20+ million sooner rather than later IMO.

How does that salary structure work for a team with a payroll under 70 million?

I really think that it's more important for them to be good than to have Mauer.

And the only way they can do both IMO is if Mauer takes a big hometown discount...which maybe he'll do.

If Minny ponies up the 20+ million that he is worth, I don't know how they fill out their roster without totally changing their salary structure. They better have a REALLY good farm system.

[beantownboy171]

I think the prospects would be better spent on another superstar,such as hernandez or gonzales, and we hold onto martinez.

[winsomme]

If Mauer is much better than Teixeira, do you think the Yankees would make that trade straight up (and then move Posada to 1st for example)?

I think Mauer is great player but I am not sure I wouldn't rather have Teixeira on the Sox.

Yes i think the Yankees do that, first basemen are easier to find than catchers. Posada is getting older and theyd get the best catcher in baseball for 8 years or so.

For the Sox if we could pick one of Mauer or Tex its definately Mauer, we have Youk at 1st who put up a better OPS than Texiera at half the money.

I would move Mauer to first sooner rather than later. I think you lose the impact hitting-wise when you have a good hitter catch.

personally, I would rather the Sox let Tek catch and move Victor to first (Youk to third and let Lowell platoon at third and DH). I think you get much more bang for your buck at the plate with Victor at first.

Sure, Victor is an upgrade over Tek catching, but the Sox don't need an upgrade at the bottom of the order, they need upgrades in the middle of the order. and I think Victor is an electric hitter when he is playing first base.

as for Mauer, he's young and his legs stay fresher to hit now, but I'd still move him to first in the next couple of years....

[winsomme]

not to mention the fact that I believe Mauer had a back problem early in the year....IMO you really should move Mauer to first if you are  going to pay him in the 20+ million range.

[freshinthehouse]

How does that salary structure work for a team with a payroll under 70 million?

The Twins payroll for 2010 is already close to 80-85 mill (once you figure in estimated arbitration figures).  I'd say once it's all said and done the Twins 2010 payroll will be around 90-95 million.

And in regards to Martinez, Nick has it right.  The Twins wouldnt want him.  They'd want young talent with lots of service time left.  And besides, the Twins have a fine catching prospect coming up (Wilson Ramos) who should be ready in the next 1-2 years.

Nick also has it right when it comes to the Twins resigning Joe Mauer.  You can't even begin to compare it to something like the Tex trade.  Tex was a hired gun.  Joe Mauer is Minnesota baseball.  Hell, he's called The Baby Jesus around here.  He's "one of us," and people put a lot of stock in that around here.  He's a heartthrob amongst the pre-teen set as well.  The dude makes the team untold amounts of money.

And like Nick mentioned, the Twins just got a new, publicly-funded stadium.  One of the reasons they got the funding was by convincing the public that if they got out of the dome, they could afford to resign their quality talent.

So if they let Mauer- possibly the best player in baseball and EASILY the most popular athlete in the state-go, the consequences could be very, very dire. 

The only way Mauer gets trades is if explicitly says he's not going to resign.  And if he did say that, they'd still expect a king's ransom for him.  They (hopefully) learned from the Santana debacle.  They'd hold him until the trade deadline and move him to the highest bidder.  Some team would be willing to clean out their farm system for a talent like that.

[jambr380]

How does that salary structure work for a team with a payroll under 70 million?

The Twins payroll for 2010 is already close to 80-85 mill (once you figure in estimated arbitration figures).  I'd say once it's all said and done the Twins 2010 payroll will be around 90-95 million.

And in regards to Martinez, Nick has it right.  The Twins wouldnt want him.  They'd want young talent with lots of service time left.  And besides, the Twins have a fine catching prospect coming up (Wilson Ramos) who should be ready in the next 1-2 years.

Nick also has it right when it comes to the Twins resigning Joe Mauer.  You can't even begin to compare it to something like the Tex trade.  Tex was a hired gun.  Joe Mauer is Minnesota baseball.  Hell, he's called The Baby Jesus around here.  He's "one of us," and people put a lot of stock in that around here.  He's a heartthrob amongst the pre-teen set as well.  The dude makes the team untold amounts of money.

And like Nick mentioned, the Twins just got a new, publicly-funded stadium.  One of the reasons they got the funding was by convincing the public that if they got out of the dome, they could afford to resign their quality talent.

So if they let Mauer- possibly the best player in baseball and EASILY the most popular athlete in the state-go, the consequences could be very, very dire. 

The only way Mauer gets trades is if explicitly says he's not going to resign.  And if he did say that, they'd still expect a king's ransom for him.  They (hopefully) learned from the Santana debacle.  They'd hold him until the trade deadline and move him to the highest bidder.  Some team would be willing to clean out their farm system for a talent like that.

I like Nick, too, but geez 

As for your last paragraph, I still tend to disagree a little. If they weren't able to get a 'king's ransom' for the best pitcher in baseball, then I don't really think they are going to get the same for an expiring position player. I also believe, like you do, that he holds more value for Minny than any other franchise because of his local appeal and them being more 'small market' than whatever team is able to sign him.

The one thing Nick said that I totally agree with (which you didn't mention) is that their first priority should be to trade Morneau, if finances really are an issue...and who knows, maybe the Red Sox are seeing if they can get a deal for him, knowing Mauer isn't really plausible (and Victor is totally sufficient).

[Vermont Green]

I have considered everyone's points and I guess I just see it differently.  This all comes down to whether or not the Twins think they can sign him.  If they can get this done this off season, discussion is ended.  I don't think they can afford it without a hometown discount.  Maybe if they trade Morneau they can afford to pay Mauer $20M but I certainly can't sit here and accept that the Twins absolutely would rather trade Morneau or will be able to.

If the Twins do not agree to an extension this offseason and they go into next year more or less as is, then they still will likely be in the playoff hunt.  Does a team in the playoff hunt trade their best player at the trade deadline?  I don't see it going that way.  Then if Mauer ends up on the Yankees (which he will) they get in line or a pick or two from the Yankees.

If they trade Mauer for V-Mart and Buchholz plus a prospect or 2, they are still in the playoff hunt next year.  If they don't get Martinez, then they have to play their hot catching prospect who I am assuming isn't quite ready.  In 2011, Martinez probably signs with the Yankees and the Twins start bringing up their prospects and Buchholz settles in as a #2 starter with a friendly contract.

This is all hypothetical so I can't say anything is absolutely this or absolutely that but it is fun to speculate about a scenario where the Red Sox could get Mauer.

I also don't think we have much likelihood of getting Gonzalez or Felix Hernandez.  They each have a few years before the teams are up against the wall. Either would be an awesome acquisition though of course.

[hpantazo]

according to the globe, it looks like the sox have finally come to their senses and are making a strong push for Halladay that will likely include Bucholtz. Pitching wins championships, and the sox pitching was not up to par the last 2-3 years.