Bad starts are Doc's fault

[nickagneta]

I am probably Doc Rivers biggest supporter on this site. If you don't know this, you haven't been paying attention around here for the past 3 years. But when Doc is at fault for something, he needs to be called on the carpet for it and I will be one of the first to do so. Do here I am, calling out Doc, saying, these pathetic starts are his fault.

If a bad start occurs once, twice, three times in a row, it can be blamed on a myriad of things. Bored players, tired players, tough travel schedule, plane problems, etc. You get it. Stuff happens and players can have a tough time getting it started.

But this has been happening since the Philly game on November 3rd. A stretch of 18 days and 9 games. I'm sorry but a team with the talent and cohesiveness of the Boston Celtics comes out for 9 straight games and plays lethargic, bored, uninspired, lackadaisical basketball. This team doesn't seem to be responding to any type of coaching, talking, discipline or motivation that is coming from the coaching staff. That they are 5-4 over this nine game stretch can be attributed to the fact that they have an unbelievably stacked team talent-wise and can overcome these type of starts, when they don't decide to play like that the whole game or aren't playing a high quality opponent.

Is it the new sleep schedule? Is it the lack of shoot arounds during game days? Is it that these guys now believe their own press clippings? Or is it that they have tuned out their coach and just are not responding to what he is doing with thenm and telling them?

I don't have the answer, heck, I'm not sure Doc Rivers has the answer. I'm not in the locker room or in these guys heads. But what I do know is that if a team comes out playing the exact same way and it is not a good way, for an extended period of time, it is the coach's responsibility to change that and it is their responsibility for letting it happen over an extended length of time.

So fix this Doc. This is on you. They aren't responding or listening or you are preparing them properly or something. But either way, this is a three week malaise and something happening that long falls onto the coach's lap. Whether that is right or not is irrelevant. Fix it and fix it now. You're screwing up if you continue to let this happen without trying everything in your power to fix it.

Like maybe benching a certain PG that isn't doing anything that I know you want him to do......

[Who]

I'm sorry but a team with the talent and cohesiveness of the Boston Celtics comes out for 9 straight games and plays lethargic, bored, uninspired, lackadaisical basketball.

That player that sounds like is Rasheed Wallace.

[ssspence]

I'm sorry but a team with the talent and cohesiveness of the Boston Celtics comes out for 9 straight games and plays lethargic, bored, uninspired, lackadaisical basketball.

That player that sounds like is Rasheed Wallace.

He's making me a kinda nuts.

[Eric_Suede]

I am probably Doc Rivers biggest supporter on this site. If you don't know this, you haven't been paying attention around here for the past 3 years. But when Doc is at fault for something, he needs to be called on the carpet for it and I will be one of the first to do so. Do here I am, calling out Doc, saying, these pathetic starts are his fault.

If a bad start occurs once, twice, three times in a row, it can be blamed on a myriad of things. Bored players, tired players, tough travel schedule, plane problems, etc. You get it. Stuff happens and players can have a tough time getting it started.

But this has been happening since the Philly game on November 3rd. A stretch of 18 days and 9 games. I'm sorry but a team with the talent and cohesiveness of the Boston Celtics comes out for 9 straight games and plays lethargic, bored, uninspired, lackadaisical basketball. This team doesn't seem to be responding to any type of coaching, talking, discipline or motivation that is coming from the coaching staff. That they are 5-4 over this nine game stretch can be attributed to the fact that they have an unbelievably stacked team talent-wise and can overcome these type of starts, when they don't decide to play like that the whole game or aren't playing a high quality opponent.

Is it the new sleep schedule? Is it the lack of shoot arounds during game days? Is it that these guys now believe their own press clippings? Or is it that they have tuned out their coach and just are not responding to what he is doing with thenm and telling them?

I don't have the answer, heck, I'm not sure Doc Rivers has the answer. I'm not in the locker room or in these guys heads. But what I do know is that if a team comes out playing the exact same way and it is not a good way, for an extended period of time, it is the coach's responsibility to change that and it is their responsibility for letting it happen over an extended length of time.

So fix this Doc. This is on you. They aren't responding or listening or you are preparing them properly or something. But either way, this is a three week malaise and something happening that long falls onto the coach's lap. Whether that is right or not is irrelevant. Fix it and fix it now. You're screwing up if you continue to let this happen without trying everything in your power to fix it.

Like maybe benching a certain PG that isn't doing anything that I know you want him to do......

wow nick , I think this is the first time we've agreed. good post. As I said in the other thread. Need to make adjustments and it starts with Doc. No need to panic however and start dumping players as others have suggested.

[pengaloo]

I think we need to stop with the "bench Rondo" movement. The issues that Doc spoke of yesterday during the post game press conference were lack of execution on both ends of the floor and guys not trusting each other. How are we supposed to improve any of those things if the key guy is sitting on the bench not practicing with the main unit? I don't believe in benching a guy just because he plays poorly for a stretch of games; I think it's important that he have the chance to work out his issues on the court. Playing time is the main way a player gets better.

[Casperian]

Lots of TPs for everyone in this thread so far.

I like you, Doc, but as nick said: This is on you.

[nickagneta]

I think we need to stop with the "bench Rondo" movement. The issues that Doc spoke of yesterday during the post game press conference were lack of execution on both ends of the floor and guys not trusting each other. How are we supposed to improve any of those things if the key guy is sitting on the bench not practicing with the main unit? I don't believe in benching a guy just because he plays poorly for a stretch of games; I think it's important that he have the chance to work out his issues on the court. Playing time is the main way a player gets better.

Doc had no problem benching Rondo for all but 50 seconds of the last 14 minutes of last nights game. Asked if he benched Rondo for some reason all he had to say was that he was going with the 5 players that were playing best. He praised Eddie's defense and said nothing about Rondo.

Reading between the lines, and maybe I'm taking liberty by doing so, he benched Rondo because his defense was appalling...and it was. If Doc is willing to do this during the game, then I don't see why sending Rondo a message by starting House and then praising his defense in the post game press conference wouldn't be such a bad tactic to use on Doc's part.

Rondo's defense, Sheed's three point shooting, Pierce's perimeter defense, Ray's sloppy passing and ball handling, and Perk's technical fouls and stupid fouls have to be addressed. How he addresses those individual things and the larger awful team defense is very important to this team.

[pengaloo]

I think we need to stop with the "bench Rondo" movement. The issues that Doc spoke of yesterday during the post game press conference were lack of execution on both ends of the floor and guys not trusting each other. How are we supposed to improve any of those things if the key guy is sitting on the bench not practicing with the main unit? I don't believe in benching a guy just because he plays poorly for a stretch of games; I think it's important that he have the chance to work out his issues on the court. Playing time is the main way a player gets better.

Doc had no problem benching Rondo for all but 50 seconds of the last 14 minutes of last nights game. Asked if he benched Rondo for some reason all he had to say was that he was going with the 5 players that were playing best. He praised Eddie's defense and said nothing about Rondo.

Reading between the lines, and maybe I'm taking liberty by doing so, he benched Rondo because his defense was appalling...and it was. If Doc is willing to do this during the game, then I don't see why sending Rondo a message by starting House and then praising his defense in the post game press conference wouldn't be such a bad tactic to use on Doc's part.

Rondo's defense, Sheed's three point shooting, Pierce's perimeter defense, Ray's sloppy passing and ball handling, and Perk's technical fouls and stupid fouls have to be addressed. How he addresses those individual things and the larger awful team defense is very important to this team.

I guess we have differences in how we handle Rondo's defensive lapses. I think the reasons behind Rondo's defense issues have to be taken into account before coming up with a solution.. be it benching or continuing to play him. If Rondo's just plain lazy, like many of us here believe, then sure, I can see why benching him would be the way to go. But if he's not trusting his teammates in covering the pick and rolls and is overcompensating, then benching him isn't the right thing to do. I think the reasons behind his defensive lapses are somewhere in between. I hope Doc handles this well...

[hpantazo]

I think we need to stop with the "bench Rondo" movement. The issues that Doc spoke of yesterday during the post game press conference were lack of execution on both ends of the floor and guys not trusting each other. How are we supposed to improve any of those things if the key guy is sitting on the bench not practicing with the main unit? I don't believe in benching a guy just because he plays poorly for a stretch of games; I think it's important that he have the chance to work out his issues on the court. Playing time is the main way a player gets better.

Doc had no problem benching Rondo for all but 50 seconds of the last 14 minutes of last nights game. Asked if he benched Rondo for some reason all he had to say was that he was going with the 5 players that were playing best. He praised Eddie's defense and said nothing about Rondo.

Reading between the lines, and maybe I'm taking liberty by doing so, he benched Rondo because his defense was appalling...and it was. If Doc is willing to do this during the game, then I don't see why sending Rondo a message by starting House and then praising his defense in the post game press conference wouldn't be such a bad tactic to use on Doc's part.

Rondo's defense, Sheed's three point shooting, Pierce's perimeter defense, Ray's sloppy passing and ball handling, and Perk's technical fouls and stupid fouls have to be addressed. How he addresses those individual things and the larger awful team defense is very important to this team.

good points all around. The poor foul call on Pierce at then end got a lot of attention, but not too long before that, Ray bobbled the ball and passed it to right to the magic. Earlier in the 4th, Scal threw what should have been an easy pass to Sheed that for one reason or another went right behind him and out of bounds. These things shouldn't happen to a veteran team.

[Scalablob990]

The problems lie within KG Doc and Rondo KG is a shadow of his former self, Rondo looks WORSE then i've ever seen him before, and Doc is still clueless on who to put in, and how to manage the big 3's minutes.

[Rtpas11]

Simple solutions:

Sign Allen Iverson 
Start Allen Iverson
Rondo is best off the bench with Eddie and Sheed

TADA!!! We're back on track.

This losing and playing lifeless has nothing to do with DOC.
#1 Rondo can't and won't shoot so defenses collapse on the other shooters and scorers.
#2 We need a Point that can create his own shots and shots for others coming off the bench.
#3 Rasheed is way too inconsistent from three (Scal should be in shooting threes and Rasheed in the paint)
#4 Paul Pierce defense is awful and always been...lol it started showing again last year, He looked pretty good at it when James Posey was on the perimeter with him helping out (on Kobe & Lebron). Our defense has never looked the same since he left.
#5 Sign ALLEN IVERSON!!!

[nickagneta]

Simple solutions:

Sign Allen Iverson 
Start Allen Iverson
Rondo is best off the bench with Eddie and Sheed

TADA!!! We're back on track.

This losing and playing lifeless has nothing to do with DOC.
#1 Rondo can't and won't shoot so defenses collapse on the other shooters and scorers.
#2 We need a Point that can create his own shots and shots for others coming off the bench.
#3 Rasheed is way too inconsistent from three (Scal should be in shooting threes and Rasheed in the paint)
#4 Paul Pierce defense is awful and always been...lol it started showing again last year, He looked pretty good at it when James Posey was on the perimeter with him helping out (on Kobe & Lebron). Our defense has never looked the same since he left.
#5 Sign ALLEN IVERSON!!!

I think you have had another Allen Iverson thread locked and have mnade your AI love know in one of the many Iverson thread's on this site. Please, do not hijack this thread into another Iverson thread. This thread is about Doc and dealing with what he has and what he can do with that to get better starts for the Celtics, not Iverson!!

[PosImpos]

TP.

I couldn't agree more.

There is NO excuse for a team as good as ours to consistently have awful first quarters every night.  It seems that every night, especially against decent teams, we are playing from 10 points behind early on.  We aren't going to win many games against good opponents playing that way!  Plus, of course, there are all the other problems that persist over the course of each game.

The players are obviously to blame too, but this one falls on Doc.  This team isn't performing mentally or physically, and that's his fault.

[wdleehi]

Leadership needs to step up.


Whether that's the coach or the players, leadership needs to step up.



The only one I have heard is Perk.  If only the vets would follow him. 

[twinbree]

The sluggish starts have been a problem for me for a long time. We hear so much about players wanting to play hard for Doc and what a great motivational coach he is so I'm baffled by the alarming number of sub-par performances the team, particularly the starters have put out there in the past couple of seasons. Perk is really the only one I can say does his job consistently.

In the 2008 playoffs it came up on the road at times. Last season with the exception of that 5 or 6 game stretch in January where we started stretch it seemed almost every game was a climbing into a double digit deficit hole early and make a furious 2nd half rally which is difficult to do when the defense is slipping like its been since last season

While I'm not excusing the players. I do think the coaching staff has to share some of the blame as to me this is a major problem they should have addressed a long time ago. Especially offensively where we'd at least have a better chance early in games if we're trading buckets rather than missing everything and not being able to get stops.

If the team is having trouble executing maybe its time to tweak somethings. We can't be doing the same things from 2 seasons ago because the team isn't the same. The Big 3 are older, we're rebounding less, not getting to the line, Perk and Rondo have improved etc. These are changes that we have to adjust to. 

Great topic. OP I'd love to hear your thoughts on some of the realistic fixes for this problem. TP