Rondo tonight

[jambr380]

Good Deron I'll give you, maybe.  Good CP is a ball dominator.  I've never liked him as much as other people have, it seems - and if you think Rondo's defense is bad, watch Chris Paul.

He was anointed a superstar, but superstars don't quit on their coaches and get beat by 58 in their own house.

When CP3 is at his best, he does everything Rondo does well, plus is an elite scorer.  Rondo is maybe a better rebounder, but that's the only advantage I'd give him.

I'd trade Rondo for CP3 ANY old time Shinn wants to make that move.

We go through this all the time: People thought Gerald Green was a star because he could dunk. Triple-doubles are nothing more than what they are, and they're not a measure of decision-making with the basketball, defense, etc.

Yeah, Rondo is just as good and just as valuable as Gerald Green. Also, triple doubles are totally useless. I hate players that get triple doubles. Anybody that shows their all around game w/ a triple double rather than only doing one or two things well doesn't belong in the NBA.

Seriously dude- this 'Rondo sux' nonsense has to stop. He isn't making big money until next year anyway. I am so sick of everyone blaming all of the team's troubles on Rondo only. I have said this before, but it is Antoine Walker syndrome all over again.

[Vermont Green]

I don't think I ever remember a player where stats were less telling than for Rondo this year.  Rondo is an amazing athlete.  His quickness, court vision/awareness, and anticipation are right up there with anyone I remember.  These attributes are why he is getting assists, rebounds, and steals.

He is getting points though because they are not covering him.  His man is generally sagging off by 10-15 ft and either clogging passing/driving lanes or flat out doubling teaming.  I think this is hurting the team far more than is being recognized.  I think Doc recognizes it and that is why he as been on the bench in the 4th qtr of a few games.  To say it more directly, because Rondo can’t shoot, his man is able to sag and help defend everyone else.  Because of this, everyone else on the team is having more trouble getting their shots.  I know you can’t blame Rondo’s shooting for everything (like Sheed’s 3FG%) but this is having a major impact on the team.

Danny signed him to the contract with the belief that Rondo will learn to shoot (FG and FT).  If he doesn’t, this contract will become one of the worst in the league.  It is kind of like a great golfer who can’t putt.  You can marvel at the drives and approach shots and say, wow, if he ever learns to putt…  The problem is that putting is a big deal in golf no matter what else you do and shooting is the same in basketball.

I do have faith in Rondo.  I think they paid too much but I still do believe he will come around.  Of course I thought that about Gerald Green too.

[Tr1boy]

One thing that kills me about Rondo still is how badly he shoots the ball. His form is bad and his shooting release even more.

If i were him right now i would try everything to get something more consistant. He needs to change his form drastically (god i hate his form now).

The easiest  form he can try is to open his leg stand a bit, place the ball head high middle and extend his arms as forward as possible with only using his wrist to push the ball towards the basket. (barbosa and calderon shoot this way)

Sure it doesn't look pretty , you can't get off the ground much, nor can you shoot over your opponents, yet for him just being able to shoot the free throw consistantly and just get wide open baskets in would be a dream come true

[cdif911]

I don't think I ever remember a player where stats were less telling than for Rondo this year.  Rondo is an amazing athlete.  His quickness, court vision/awareness, and anticipation are right up there with anyone I remember.  These attributes are why he is getting assists, rebounds, and steals.

He is getting points though because they are not covering him.  His man is generally sagging off by 10-15 ft and either clogging passing/driving lanes or flat out doubling teaming.  I think this is hurting the team far more than is being recognized.  I think Doc recognizes it and that is why he as been on the bench in the 4th qtr of a few games.  To say it more directly, because Rondo can’t shoot, his man is able to sag and help defend everyone else.  Because of this, everyone else on the team is having more trouble getting their shots.  I know you can’t blame Rondo’s shooting for everything (like Sheed’s 3FG%) but this is having a major impact on the team.

Danny signed him to the contract with the belief that Rondo will learn to shoot (FG and FT).  If he doesn’t, this contract will become one of the worst in the league.  It is kind of like a great golfer who can’t putt.  You can marvel at the drives and approach shots and say, wow, if he ever learns to putt…  The problem is that putting is a big deal in golf no matter what else you do and shooting is the same in basketball.

I do have faith in Rondo.  I think they paid too much but I still do believe he will come around.  Of course I thought that about Gerald Green too.

ok so you have faith in Rondo but then say he can't shoot, and seem to be pretty sure he can't shoot, and if he doesn't learn to will be one of the worst contracts in the league...

hmm... doesn't sound like faith, honestly

as far as bad contracts go consider the following guys all make more (or the same) than Rondo will per year under his new deal:

Jermaine O'Neal, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, Zach Randolph, Kenyon Martin, Peja Stojakovic, Larry Hughes, Brad Miller, Tyson Chandler, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Shaq, Eric Dampier , Nene, Troy Murphy, Baron Davis, Bobby Simmons - I'd take him and his contract over every single one of these guys without a second thought...even if his jumper gets no better than it is at this moment

here's what people are missing - Rondo is super competitive, an athletic freak of nature, very young, and already a top 5 pg in the league, without an all-league jumpshot.  Let's focus on what he does well, not on what he doesn't do.  He can beat any player off the dribble in the league and finish over nearly every big the game has to offer.  He can run the point very well.  He is leading the league in steals.  He is 5th in assists on a team that is offensively dysfunctional right now - he's also 54% from the floor, and yes many are layups, but he's showing efficiency there.

Rondo is going to be our pg for a long time - I hope he doesn't become as enigmatic to boston fans as AW, or this board could get ugly really fast...

[cdif911]

One thing that kills me about Rondo still is how badly he shoots the ball. His form is bad and his shooting release even more.

If i were him right now i would try everything to get something more consistant. He needs to change his form drastically (god i hate his form now).

The easiest  form he can try is to open his leg stand a bit, place the ball head high middle and extend his arms as forward as possible with only using his wrist to push the ball towards the basket. (barbosa and calderon shoot this way)

Sure it doesn't look pretty , you can't get off the ground much, nor can you shoot over your opponents, yet for him just being able to shoot the free throw consistantly and just get wide open baskets in would be a dream come true

note he worked with Mark Price, one of the games all time best shooters this summer...

also shooting with just your wrists is not a good place to start - only if you developed that way should you use it - it's like telling kids to watch Shawn Marion shoot to learn how to have a good stroke.  If you're developing a shot from the ground up, do it as fundamentally as possible.  If you're going for a quick fix, there really isn't one.

One thing to note, Rondo's hands are so big that he may have issues with his release from that - think Shaq and Free throws, part of the problem is his hands are too darned big...

[vinnie]

There is no way that Rajon Rondo is a top 5 point guard in the league today. In the future, maybe, but not now.

[Tr1boy]

One thing that kills me about Rondo still is how badly he shoots the ball. His form is bad and his shooting release even more.

If i were him right now i would try everything to get something more consistant. He needs to change his form drastically (god i hate his form now).

The easiest  form he can try is to open his leg stand a bit, place the ball head high middle and extend his arms as forward as possible with only using his wrist to push the ball towards the basket. (barbosa and calderon shoot this way)

Sure it doesn't look pretty , you can't get off the ground much, nor can you shoot over your opponents, yet for him just being able to shoot the free throw consistantly and just get wide open baskets in would be a dream come true

note he worked with Mark Price, one of the games all time best shooters this summer...

also shooting with just your wrists is not a good place to start - only if you developed that way should you use it - it's like telling kids to watch Shawn Marion shoot to learn how to have a good stroke.  If you're developing a shot from the ground up, do it as fundamentally as possible.  If you're going for a quick fix, there really isn't one.

One thing to note, Rondo's hands are so big that he may have issues with his release from that - think Shaq and Free throws, part of the problem is his hands are too darned big...

i disagree with you completely. Fundamentaly trying to shoot correctly is difficult as heck. How many players in the nba do you know that fundamentaly know how to shoot well with good form?

Shawn Marion by the way is an inconsistant shooter so not sure why you using him as an example.

The form i'm talking about is more in line with the way guys like barbosa and calderon shoot. Less movements with everything else and just using the wrist to forwad the ball to the basket.

He can TRY this and see if it works. He can't keep shooting this badly or he will have a short nba career no doubt

[Atzar]

One thing that kills me about Rondo still is how badly he shoots the ball. His form is bad and his shooting release even more.

If i were him right now i would try everything to get something more consistant. He needs to change his form drastically (god i hate his form now).

The easiest  form he can try is to open his leg stand a bit, place the ball head high middle and extend his arms as forward as possible with only using his wrist to push the ball towards the basket. (barbosa and calderon shoot this way)

Sure it doesn't look pretty , you can't get off the ground much, nor can you shoot over your opponents, yet for him just being able to shoot the free throw consistantly and just get wide open baskets in would be a dream come true

note he worked with Mark Price, one of the games all time best shooters this summer...

also shooting with just your wrists is not a good place to start - only if you developed that way should you use it - it's like telling kids to watch Shawn Marion shoot to learn how to have a good stroke.  If you're developing a shot from the ground up, do it as fundamentally as possible.  If you're going for a quick fix, there really isn't one.

One thing to note, Rondo's hands are so big that he may have issues with his release from that - think Shaq and Free throws, part of the problem is his hands are too darned big...

i disagree with you completely. Fundamentaly trying to shoot correctly is difficult as heck. How many players in the nba do you know that fundamentaly know how to shoot well with good form?

Shawn Marion by the way is an inconsistant shooter so not sure why you using him as an example.

The form i'm talking about is more in line with the way guys like barbosa and calderon shoot. Less movements with everything else and just using the wrist to forwad the ball to the basket.

He can TRY this and see if it works. He can't keep shooting this badly or he will have a short nba career no doubt

He was saying that you're basically saying he should be taught to shoot with a flawed form, Marion was just an example. 

And yeah, a player who is already a starter and a possible All-Star this year without a jumpshot is going to have a short NBA career.  Are you kidding me?  He's already a very good player, as flawed as he is - to fix his flaws would likely make him a star, not just keep him in the league.

The roller coaster ride that is this site's emotional state is funny.  Last year during the Chicago series, Rondo was lauded as a "surefire All-Star next year, probably the best player on this team".  Now the team is struggling, and Rondo will "have a short career" if he doesn't improve.

Give me a break.

Edited to fix a typo...

[jambr380]

One thing that kills me about Rondo still is how badly he shoots the ball. His form is bad and his shooting release even more.

If i were him right now i would try everything to get something more consistant. He needs to change his form drastically (god i hate his form now).

The easiest  form he can try is to open his leg stand a bit, place the ball head high middle and extend his arms as forward as possible with only using his wrist to push the ball towards the basket. (barbosa and calderon shoot this way)

Sure it doesn't look pretty , you can't get off the ground much, nor can you shoot over your opponents, yet for him just being able to shoot the free throw consistantly and just get wide open baskets in would be a dream come true

note he worked with Mark Price, one of the games all time best shooters this summer...

also shooting with just your wrists is not a good place to start - only if you developed that way should you use it - it's like telling kids to watch Shawn Marion shoot to learn how to have a good stroke.  If you're developing a shot from the ground up, do it as fundamentally as possible.  If you're going for a quick fix, there really isn't one.

One thing to note, Rondo's hands are so big that he may have issues with his release from that - think Shaq and Free throws, part of the problem is his hands are too darned big...

i disagree with you completely. Fundamentaly trying to shoot correctly is difficult as heck. How many players in the nba do you know that fundamentaly know how to shoot well with good form?

Shawn Marion by the way is an inconsistant shooter so not sure why you using him as an example.

The form i'm talking about is more in line with the way guys like barbosa and calderon shoot. Less movements with everything else and just using the wrist to forwad the ball to the basket.

He can TRY this and see if it works. He can't keep shooting this badly or he will have a short nba career no doubt

He was saying that you're basically saying he should be taught to shoot was a flawed form, Marion was just an example. 

And yeah, a player who is already a starter and a possible All-Star this year without a jumpshot is going to have a short NBA career.  Are you kidding me?  He's already a very good player, as flawed as he is - to fix his flaws would likely make him a star, not just keep him in the league.

The roller coaster ride that is this site's emotional state is funny.  Last year during the Chicago series, Rondo was lauded as a "surefire All-Star next year, probably the best player on this team".  Now the team is struggling, and Rondo will "have a short career" if he doesn't improve.

Give me a break.

TP, you took the words right out of my mouth.

[nickagneta]

Magic Johnson was a god awful, horrible outside shooter for the better part of his first 7-8 years in the league. He didn't shoot over 24% from three point land until he was into his 10th season.

But he worked and worked on it and slowly year in and year out his outside shot got better and his range increase. During Magic's fourth season he was....get this...0 for 21 from three point range and had a assist to turnover ratio of 2.75. Rondo has already hit a three and has an assist to turnover ratio 3,79.

What does that prove? Nothing. But what it does do is so that even the greatest of the great had seriously flaws that they were able to overcome over a long and prosperous career, through hard work and dedication. If there has been anything that has been consistently reported about Rondo is that he has a fantastic dedication and work ethic as well as a desire to get better. He's 23. Give him time, have patience and stop trying to bury the kid every time he and/or the team goes through a slump.

[BballTim]

Part of the problem with this team and turnovers is that they share the ball too much some times.  They end up getting turnovers where other teams would get missed shots.  That's partly Rondo's problem too.  Sometimes he makes the brilliant play that makes him look like a genius, other times he turns it over and looks stupid.  A lesser PG would have fewer turnovers, but fewer spectacular plays. 

I won't begrudge Rondo or anyone on the team too much for making the extra pass; however, I do hope that they try to keep it simpler at times.  While sharing is great, if people are open, they should just shoot it and not risk turning it over. 

  Rondo doesn't turn the ball over a lot. He's 3rd among pgs in assists per 48 and 4th in assist/turnover ratio.

Never said he turned it over a lot.  Simply said that when he does, it's usually because he's trying to creatively get others involved.  The team tends to turn it over more than most since they try to do the same. 

  You said that a lesser player would turn it over less often. There are very few point guards who have fewer turnovers per assist. A lesser player wouldn't try some of the creative passes Rondo does but they wouldn't do the other passes as well either.

[scoop]

Magic Johnson was a god awful, horrible outside shooter for the better part of his first 7-8 years in the league. He didn't shoot over 24% from three point land until he was into his 10th season.

But he worked and worked on it and slowly year in and year out his outside shot got better and his range increase. During Magic's fourth season he was....get this...0 for 21 from three point range and had a assist to turnover ratio of 2.75. Rondo has already hit a three and has an assist to turnover ratio 3,79.

What does that prove? Nothing. But what it does do is so that even the greatest of the great had seriously flaws that they were able to overcome over a long and prosperous career, through hard work and dedication. If there has been anything that has been consistently reported about Rondo is that he has a fantastic dedication and work ethic as well as a desire to get better. He's 23. Give him time, have patience and stop trying to bury the kid every time he and/or the team goes through a slump.

The game is very different. In Magic's 4th season the 3pt attempts was of residual importance. In that season, NBA teams made 0.53 3 pointers per game while playing 103.1 possessions per game shooting them at a .238%. The entire Celtics team made 39 3pt shots. The Lakers went to the Finals hitting 10 triples the entire regular season.

Last season NBA teams shot an average of 18 triples per game, hitting them at a .367 percentage and this playing at a much slower pace - 91.7 possessions per game.

Magic didn't have much incentives to improve his 3pt shot. A guard unable to hit the outside shot would only residually hurt his team. Things today are completely different.

[BballTim]

Magic Johnson was a god awful, horrible outside shooter for the better part of his first 7-8 years in the league. He didn't shoot over 24% from three point land until he was into his 10th season.

But he worked and worked on it and slowly year in and year out his outside shot got better and his range increase. During Magic's fourth season he was....get this...0 for 21 from three point range and had a assist to turnover ratio of 2.75. Rondo has already hit a three and has an assist to turnover ratio 3,79.

What does that prove? Nothing. But what it does do is so that even the greatest of the great had seriously flaws that they were able to overcome over a long and prosperous career, through hard work and dedication. If there has been anything that has been consistently reported about Rondo is that he has a fantastic dedication and work ethic as well as a desire to get better. He's 23. Give him time, have patience and stop trying to bury the kid every time he and/or the team goes through a slump.

The game is very different. In Magic's 4th season the 3pt attempts was of residual importance. In that season, NBA teams made 0.53 3 pointers per game while playing 103.1 possessions per game shooting them at a .238%. The entire Celtics team made 39 3pt shots. The Lakers went to the Finals hitting 10 triples the entire regular season.

Last season NBA teams shot an average of 18 triples per game, hitting them at a .367 percentage and this playing at a much slower pace - 91.7 possessions per game.

Magic didn't have much incentives to improve his 3pt shot. A guard unable to hit the outside shot would only residually hurt his team. Things today are completely different.

  His three point shooting is just illustrative of his overall outside shooting, which was poor.

[Redz]

Magic Johnson was a god awful, horrible outside shooter for the better part of his first 7-8 years in the league. He didn't shoot over 24% from three point land until he was into his 10th season.

But he worked and worked on it and slowly year in and year out his outside shot got better and his range increase. During Magic's fourth season he was....get this...0 for 21 from three point range and had a assist to turnover ratio of 2.75. Rondo has already hit a three and has an assist to turnover ratio 3,79.

What does that prove? Nothing. But what it does do is so that even the greatest of the great had seriously flaws that they were able to overcome over a long and prosperous career, through hard work and dedication. If there has been anything that has been consistently reported about Rondo is that he has a fantastic dedication and work ethic as well as a desire to get better. He's 23. Give him time, have patience and stop trying to bury the kid every time he and/or the team goes through a slump.

The game is very different. In Magic's 4th season the 3pt attempts was of residual importance. In that season, NBA teams made 0.53 3 pointers per game while playing 103.1 possessions per game shooting them at a .238%. The entire Celtics team made 39 3pt shots. The Lakers went to the Finals hitting 10 triples the entire regular season.

Last season NBA teams shot an average of 18 triples per game, hitting them at a .367 percentage and this playing at a much slower pace - 91.7 possessions per game.

Magic didn't have much incentives to improve his 3pt shot. A guard unable to hit the outside shot would only residually hurt his team. Things today are completely different.

Wow.  I actually didn't believe that stat (39 3's for the C's in 83-84).  My memory failed me.  I think of Bird as such an amazing 3 point shooter, but he never took more than 3 a game in his career. It's strange that the league went away from the 3 that much in 83 - there definitely were more taken the first year it was in play (79-80)

Here are the Celts 82-83 stats

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1983.html

[scoop]

Magic Johnson was a god awful, horrible outside shooter for the better part of his first 7-8 years in the league. He didn't shoot over 24% from three point land until he was into his 10th season.

But he worked and worked on it and slowly year in and year out his outside shot got better and his range increase. During Magic's fourth season he was....get this...0 for 21 from three point range and had a assist to turnover ratio of 2.75. Rondo has already hit a three and has an assist to turnover ratio 3,79.

What does that prove? Nothing. But what it does do is so that even the greatest of the great had seriously flaws that they were able to overcome over a long and prosperous career, through hard work and dedication. If there has been anything that has been consistently reported about Rondo is that he has a fantastic dedication and work ethic as well as a desire to get better. He's 23. Give him time, have patience and stop trying to bury the kid every time he and/or the team goes through a slump.

The game is very different. In Magic's 4th season the 3pt attempts was of residual importance. In that season, NBA teams made 0.53 3 pointers per game while playing 103.1 possessions per game shooting them at a .238%. The entire Celtics team made 39 3pt shots. The Lakers went to the Finals hitting 10 triples the entire regular season.

Last season NBA teams shot an average of 18 triples per game, hitting them at a .367 percentage and this playing at a much slower pace - 91.7 possessions per game.

Magic didn't have much incentives to improve his 3pt shot. A guard unable to hit the outside shot would only residually hurt his team. Things today are completely different.

  His three point shooting is just illustrative of his overall outside shooting, which was poor.

Sure, there wasn't much incentive to improve it. If LeBron James was born in 1960 I bet his outside shot would be poor and his post game would be much better than it is.