Red Sox preparing for a spending spree?!?!?

[houseonfire09]

I think it's time the Sox start thinking about blowing it up and starting over.  It seems like half the roster ATM is filled with guys who should retire now or next year, while the other half is filled with guys who can't carry a team by themselves if needed or just aren't quite good enough to be anything but role players on a contender.  Build through the farm system, and try again in 5-7 years.

Uh, what?  Ortiz, Lowell and Tek are at the of their careers.  We still have Pedroia, Youk, Drew, Jacoby, VMart, Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, and a solid pen headlined by Papelbon.  The FO is very high on Bard and still thinks a lot of Lowrie despite his injury problems.  Starting with Reddick, we have several guys in the farm system who could contribute in the next couple of years.  And yet you want to blow the team up? 

Pitching can't take you very far unless you have a deep 5-man starting rotation.  Even in the playoffs, going with Beckett, Lester, and Mystery Starter X isn't a good idea.  What if Beckett or Lester fail in the first 2 games of a 5-game series?  A random starter in Game 3 would probably lose, too. (see this year's Sox-Angels series)  Also, I don't trust Buchholz at all.  Should have traded him for Halladay or Felix when they had the chance.

As for hitting, I'll give you Pedroia and maybe Drew, but Youk = James Posey and Ellsbury = Eddie House.  Decent role players, but i wouldn't build a team around them.  Also, anyone is an upgrade over Tek at this point.

[hpantazo]

It wasn't really a good sign when John Henry laid off 25% of the employees in his hedge fund about a week ago.

I don't forsee a spending spree at all.  In fact, I don't want to see any more bad investments like J.D. Drew.

The sox need to resign Bay amd add one more hitter who can play 1B and the outfield in a pinch-- not necessarily a superstar, but a decent hitter.  Then they need to resign Alex Gonzales, and find a young catcher who can throw. Varitek and can the third catcher and bullpen coach.  They platoon Papi and Lowell at DH.

And above all, they keep their young pitching.  All of it.  Pitching is 70% of the game, except in September and October, when it's 80% of the game.

JD Drew as a bad investment is a played out comment.  It simply isnt true.  Multiple scouting/analysists peg his 'value' at greater then the yearly salary they pay him.  If you want me to dig them up, I will.

John Henry's business is different from the team.  The hedge fund industry is getting destroyed, apples - oranges.

Wow, I hate this argument.  I lost about 2 hours of my life last month wasting it listening to callers on the big show try to make this point.  I don't care what statistical analysis you do, it will not change the fact that JD Drew is not a good investment.  You should NEVER be paying $14 million per year on a guy who is a 7 or 8 hitter when everyone is healthy, unless you are the Yankees, and have no salary restrictions whatsoever.

I know he gets a little more flack than he deserves, but no matter how you cut it, he was not good value for what they are paying him based on the current market.

So .279/.392/.522 with 20+ HR's and very good defense isn't worth $14M?  That's what he provided last year, and it's right in line with his career averages.  For somebody who was top 10 in the AL in OBP and OPS, he doesn't get near the credit he deserves. 

no, he's not a bad investment, he's a downright awful investment. 14 million for JD Drew a good investment? are you kidding me?

[Donoghus]

It wasn't really a good sign when John Henry laid off 25% of the employees in his hedge fund about a week ago.

I don't forsee a spending spree at all.  In fact, I don't want to see any more bad investments like J.D. Drew.

The sox need to resign Bay amd add one more hitter who can play 1B and the outfield in a pinch-- not necessarily a superstar, but a decent hitter.  Then they need to resign Alex Gonzales, and find a young catcher who can throw. Varitek and can the third catcher and bullpen coach.  They platoon Papi and Lowell at DH.

And above all, they keep their young pitching.  All of it.  Pitching is 70% of the game, except in September and October, when it's 80% of the game.

JD Drew as a bad investment is a played out comment.  It simply isnt true.  Multiple scouting/analysists peg his 'value' at greater then the yearly salary they pay him.  If you want me to dig them up, I will.

John Henry's business is different from the team.  The hedge fund industry is getting destroyed, apples - oranges.

Wow, I hate this argument.  I lost about 2 hours of my life last month wasting it listening to callers on the big show try to make this point.  I don't care what statistical analysis you do, it will not change the fact that JD Drew is not a good investment.  You should NEVER be paying $14 million per year on a guy who is a 7 or 8 hitter when everyone is healthy, unless you are the Yankees, and have no salary restrictions whatsoever.

I know he gets a little more flack than he deserves, but no matter how you cut it, he was not good value for what they are paying him based on the current market.

So .279/.392/.522 with 20+ HR's and very good defense isn't worth $14M?  That's what he provided last year, and it's right in line with his career averages.  For somebody who was top 10 in the AL in OBP and OPS, he doesn't get near the credit he deserves. 

That still doesn't mean that he's not overpaid.

[hpantazo]

I think it's time the Sox start thinking about blowing it up and starting over.  It seems like half the roster ATM is filled with guys who should retire now or next year, while the other half is filled with guys who can't carry a team by themselves if needed or just aren't quite good enough to be anything but role players on a contender.  Build through the farm system, and try again in 5-7 years.

Uh, what?  Ortiz, Lowell and Tek are at the of their careers.  We still have Pedroia, Youk, Drew, Jacoby, VMart, Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, and a solid pen headlined by Papelbon.  The FO is very high on Bard and still thinks a lot of Lowrie despite his injury problems.  Starting with Reddick, we have several guys in the farm system who could contribute in the next couple of years.  And yet you want to blow the team up? 

Pitching can't take you very far unless you have a deep 5-man starting rotation.  Even in the playoffs, going with Beckett, Lester, and Mystery Starter X isn't a good idea.  What if Beckett or Lester fail in the first 2 games of a 5-game series?  A random starter in Game 3 would probably lose, too. (see this year's Sox-Angels series)  Also, I don't trust Buchholz at all.  Should have traded him for Halladay or Felix when they had the chance.

As for hitting, I'll give you Pedroia and maybe Drew, but Youk = James Posey and Ellsbury = Eddie House.  Decent role players, but i wouldn't build a team around them.  Also, anyone is an upgrade over Tek at this point.

i agree, and I believe Lester, Beckett, and Bucholtz are totally overrated by sox fans. Bucholtz should have been shipped off for Halladay. We may have had a shot at the world series if that had happened. How great was our pitching in the playoffs? None, Not a single one of our aces came up strong in the playoffs, and our top tier closer chocked big time. I'm tired of hearing how great our pitching is and how much "potential" they have. They are dissapointing and a major cause of our lack of success.

[Donoghus]

I think it's time the Sox start thinking about blowing it up and starting over.  It seems like half the roster ATM is filled with guys who should retire now or next year, while the other half is filled with guys who can't carry a team by themselves if needed or just aren't quite good enough to be anything but role players on a contender.  Build through the farm system, and try again in 5-7 years.

Uh, what?  Ortiz, Lowell and Tek are at the of their careers.  We still have Pedroia, Youk, Drew, Jacoby, VMart, Lester, Beckett, Buchholz, and a solid pen headlined by Papelbon.  The FO is very high on Bard and still thinks a lot of Lowrie despite his injury problems.  Starting with Reddick, we have several guys in the farm system who could contribute in the next couple of years.  And yet you want to blow the team up? 

Pitching can't take you very far unless you have a deep 5-man starting rotation.  Even in the playoffs, going with Beckett, Lester, and Mystery Starter X isn't a good idea.  What if Beckett or Lester fail in the first 2 games of a 5-game series?  A random starter in Game 3 would probably lose, too. (see this year's Sox-Angels series)  Also, I don't trust Buchholz at all.  Should have traded him for Halladay or Felix when they had the chance.

As for hitting, I'll give you Pedroia and maybe Drew, but Youk = James Posey and Ellsbury = Eddie House.  Decent role players, but i wouldn't build a team around them.  Also, anyone is an upgrade over Tek at this point.

i agree, and I believe Lester, Beckett, and Bucholtz are totally overrated by sox fans. Bucholtz should have been shipped off for Halladay. We may have had a shot at the world series if that had happened. How great was our pitching in the playoffs? None, Not a single one of our aces came up strong in the playoffs, and our top tier closer chocked big time. I'm tired of hearing how great our pitching is and how much "potential" they have. They are dissapointing and a major cause of our lack of success.

I didn't necessarily have much of a problem with the Sox pitching in the playoffs with the exeception of Papelbon's meltdown.

The real issue I had was the total lack of run support provided by our offense and the ineptness to provide any timely hits.  The offense let the Sox down big time (as well as Papelbon in Game 3).

[Big_Matt34]

Let's guess how many outfielders in the MLB had a better OPS than Jd Drew last year.

It's 3, Bay/Dunn/Braun are the only ones. Now add in the fact that Drew is an excellent defensive outfielder and you get a very good player.

Him making 14 million doesnt matter to me, if he's not worth that he's worth close to it, also take into account that he got the deal when the market was really inflated. A great defensive RF'er in Fenway who has put up OPS of .927 and .914 the last two years is [dang] good, i know the lack of RBI's and him missing games annoy people but he is far from a horrible investment. Lugo/REnteria/Clement, those are horrible investments.

[yall hate]

It wasn't really a good sign when John Henry laid off 25% of the employees in his hedge fund about a week ago.

I don't forsee a spending spree at all.  In fact, I don't want to see any more bad investments like J.D. Drew.

The sox need to resign Bay amd add one more hitter who can play 1B and the outfield in a pinch-- not necessarily a superstar, but a decent hitter.  Then they need to resign Alex Gonzales, and find a young catcher who can throw. Varitek and can the third catcher and bullpen coach.  They platoon Papi and Lowell at DH.

And above all, they keep their young pitching.  All of it.  Pitching is 70% of the game, except in September and October, when it's 80% of the game.

JD Drew as a bad investment is a played out comment.  It simply isnt true.  Multiple scouting/analysists peg his 'value' at greater then the yearly salary they pay him.  If you want me to dig them up, I will.

John Henry's business is different from the team.  The hedge fund industry is getting destroyed, apples - oranges.

Wow, I hate this argument.  I lost about 2 hours of my life last month wasting it listening to callers on the big show try to make this point.  I don't care what statistical analysis you do, it will not change the fact that JD Drew is not a good investment.  You should NEVER be paying $14 million per year on a guy who is a 7 or 8 hitter when everyone is healthy, unless you are the Yankees, and have no salary restrictions whatsoever.

I know he gets a little more flack than he deserves, but no matter how you cut it, he was not good value for what they are paying him based on the current market.

So .279/.392/.522 with 20+ HR's and very good defense isn't worth $14M?  That's what he provided last year, and it's right in line with his career averages.  For somebody who was top 10 in the AL in OBP and OPS, he doesn't get near the credit he deserves. 

no, he's not a bad investment, he's a downright awful investment. 14 million for JD Drew a good investment? are you kidding me?

Atzar is right.  Drew was one of our best hitters all year.  ALL YEAR.  he takes walks, he see's pitches, he racks up the pitchcount and he plays a difficult spot in the outfield. 

He wasnt overpaid.  and for those that think he is, then I hope you are in the camp that thinks the Sox should steer clear of Bay this offseason.  because if not, you are just making a judgment based on name alone. 

PLAYER AGE G AVG/OBP/SLG OPS OPS+
Bay 31 922 .280/.376/.519 .895 131
Drew 31 960 .286/.393/.512 .905 132
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

That represents Drew's career pre signing here, and Bay's now.  Bay is likely to make MORE then Drew. 


And as for where Drew hits in the lineup, he has shown he can and will hit anywhere in the lineup Francona slots him.  He didnt ask to be placed in the back.  it is where he was placed...

[Chris]

It wasn't really a good sign when John Henry laid off 25% of the employees in his hedge fund about a week ago.

I don't forsee a spending spree at all.  In fact, I don't want to see any more bad investments like J.D. Drew.

The sox need to resign Bay amd add one more hitter who can play 1B and the outfield in a pinch-- not necessarily a superstar, but a decent hitter.  Then they need to resign Alex Gonzales, and find a young catcher who can throw. Varitek and can the third catcher and bullpen coach.  They platoon Papi and Lowell at DH.

And above all, they keep their young pitching.  All of it.  Pitching is 70% of the game, except in September and October, when it's 80% of the game.

JD Drew as a bad investment is a played out comment.  It simply isnt true.  Multiple scouting/analysists peg his 'value' at greater then the yearly salary they pay him.  If you want me to dig them up, I will.

John Henry's business is different from the team.  The hedge fund industry is getting destroyed, apples - oranges.

Wow, I hate this argument.  I lost about 2 hours of my life last month wasting it listening to callers on the big show try to make this point.  I don't care what statistical analysis you do, it will not change the fact that JD Drew is not a good investment.  You should NEVER be paying $14 million per year on a guy who is a 7 or 8 hitter when everyone is healthy, unless you are the Yankees, and have no salary restrictions whatsoever.

I know he gets a little more flack than he deserves, but no matter how you cut it, he was not good value for what they are paying him based on the current market.

So .279/.392/.522 with 20+ HR's and very good defense isn't worth $14M?  That's what he provided last year, and it's right in line with his career averages.  For somebody who was top 10 in the AL in OBP and OPS, he doesn't get near the credit he deserves. 

Nope, its not worth $14M in today's market.  It may have been 3 years ago, but when Bobby Abreu is signing for 1 year, $5 million (or whatever it was), $14 million for JD Drew is overpaid.

And again, I could care less what the stats say.  He also is a guy who has made it clear that he does not like to hit leadoff, and is always good to miss a significant number of games throughout the year.  

$14 million is pretty darn close to superstar salary in todays MLB, and he is by no means a superstar.  He is a good player, who is efficient, but is overpaid based on his overall production, as well as his role.

[Brickowski]

Young pitchers will break your heart.  That's a given.  The Yankees are experiencing the same teething pain with Chamberlain and Hughes.  But eventually young pitchers "get it."  If the talent is there, keep them, because you'll pay through the nose to replace them.

Having said that, Buchholz for Halladay would have been a good idea.  Halladay is not just a good pitcher, he's an ace: a No. 1 starter.  But I would have been against Buchholz for a position player.  The league is full of vastly overpaid almost washed up ex stars that teams forgot to trade when the had value, e.g. Vernon Wells and (dare I say it?) J.D. Drew. I would never give up Buchholz for a player like that.

[yall hate]

Nope, its not worth $14M in today's market.  It may have been 3 years ago, but when Bobby Abreu is signing for 1 year, $5 million (or whatever it was), $14 million for JD Drew is overpaid.

And again, I could care less what the stats say.  He also is a guy who has made it clear that he does not like to hit leadoff, and is always good to miss a significant number of games throughout the year.  

$14 million is pretty darn close to superstar salary in todays MLB, and he is by no means a superstar.  He is a good player, who is efficient, but is overpaid based on his overall production, as well as his role.

So what is your max offer for Bay?  7 mill a year?  8?  Certainly not 10+ million. 

for reference:
PLAYER AGE G AVG/OBP/SLG OPS OPS+
Bay 31 922 .280/.376/.519 .895 131
Drew 31 960 .286/.393/.512 .905 132
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

That represents Drew's career pre signing here, and Bay's now.  Bay is likely to make MORE then Drew. 

[Big_Matt34]

i agree, and I believe Lester, Beckett, and Bucholtz are totally overrated by sox fans.

Beckett ill give you as i believe he is overrated by some Sox fans, but calling Lester overrated is laughable, and thats putting it nicely. A lefty who has gone 31-14 with an ERA of 3.31 in the AL east, thrown 413 innings, struck out 377, and has a WHIP of 1.24 over the last two years is EXCELLENT, add in the fact that he is still 25 and you have one of the 2 or 3 best young pitchers in baseball. Oh yeah, the 2.57 ERA/1.11 WHIP in 8 career playoff games is pretty nice too.

And it wasnt just Buchholz for Halladay, it was likely Buchholz/Bard/C. Kelly/ plus another top prospect, you don't give up that much for a pitcher who is a year and a half from free agency.

[Atzar]

Nope, its not worth $14M in today's market.  It may have been 3 years ago, but when Bobby Abreu is signing for 1 year, $5 million (or whatever it was), $14 million for JD Drew is overpaid.

And again, I could care less what the stats say.  He also is a guy who has made it clear that he does not like to hit leadoff, and is always good to miss a significant number of games throughout the year.  

$14 million is pretty darn close to superstar salary in todays MLB, and he is by no means a superstar.  He is a good player, who is efficient, but is overpaid based on his overall production, as well as his role.

So what is your max offer for Bay?  7 mill a year?  8?  Certainly not 10+ million. 

for reference:
PLAYER AGE G AVG/OBP/SLG OPS OPS+
Bay 31 922 .280/.376/.519 .895 131
Drew 31 960 .286/.393/.512 .905 132
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/

That represents Drew's career pre signing here, and Bay's now.  Bay is likely to make MORE then Drew. 

It's also worth noting that Bay is a horrendous defender, while JD Drew is well above average.

Also, who tried to compare Youk to Posey?  Are you for real?  Yeah, if Posey was an All-Star for the last two years, near the top of the league in both offense and defense.  Youk is an elite player.

[Brickowski]

i agree, and I believe Lester, Beckett, and Bucholtz are totally overrated by sox fans.

Beckett ill give you as i believe he is overrated by Sox fans, but calling Lester overrated is laughable, and thats putting it nicely. A lefty who has gone 31-14 with an ERA of 3.31 in the AL east, thrown 413 innings, struck out 377, and has a WHIP of 1.24 over the last two years is EXCELLENT, add in the fact that he is still 25 and you have one of the 2 or 3 best young pitchers in baseball.

And it wasnt just Buchholz for Halladay, it was likely Buchholz/Bard/C. Kelly/ plus another top prospect, you don't give up that much for a pitcher who is a year and a half from free agency.

Unless you want to win a playoff series or two... or three.  Then you might consider it.

[Brickowski]

If the sox had two more guys like Youkilis, the Yankees would never touch them.

[Donoghus]

It wasn't really a good sign when John Henry laid off 25% of the employees in his hedge fund about a week ago.



I don't forsee a spending spree at all.  In fact, I don't want to see any more bad investments like J.D. Drew.

The sox need to resign Bay amd add one more hitter who can play 1B and the outfield in a pinch-- not necessarily a superstar, but a decent hitter.  Then they need to resign Alex Gonzales, and find a young catcher who can throw. Varitek and can the third catcher and bullpen coach.  They platoon Papi and Lowell at DH.

And above all, they keep their young pitching.  All of it.  Pitching is 70% of the game, except in September and October, when it's 80% of the game.

JD Drew as a bad investment is a played out comment.  It simply isnt true.  Multiple scouting/analysists peg his 'value' at greater then the yearly salary they pay him.  If you want me to dig them up, I will.

John Henry's business is different from the team.  The hedge fund industry is getting destroyed, apples - oranges.

Wow, I hate this argument.  I lost about 2 hours of my life last month wasting it listening to callers on the big show try to make this point.  I don't care what statistical analysis you do, it will not change the fact that JD Drew is not a good investment.  You should NEVER be paying $14 million per year on a guy who is a 7 or 8 hitter when everyone is healthy, unless you are the Yankees, and have no salary restrictions whatsoever.

I know he gets a little more flack than he deserves, but no matter how you cut it, he was not good value for what they are paying him based on the current market.

So .279/.392/.522 with 20+ HR's and very good defense isn't worth $14M?  That's what he provided last year, and it's right in line with his career averages.  For somebody who was top 10 in the AL in OBP and OPS, he doesn't get near the credit he deserves. 

Nope, its not worth $14M in today's market.  It may have been 3 years ago, but when Bobby Abreu is signing for 1 year, $5 million (or whatever it was), $14 million for JD Drew is overpaid.

And again, I could care less what the stats say.  He also is a guy who has made it clear that he does not like to hit leadoff, and is always good to miss a significant number of games throughout the year.  

$14 million is pretty darn close to superstar salary in todays MLB, and he is by no means a superstar.  He is a good player, who is efficient, but is overpaid based on his overall production, as well as his role.

I'm in the same boat as Chris.  Very efficient ballplayer but still overpaid in my book.

He's being a superstar-type salary but he's not passing the eyeball test on being a superstar.  Sorry.  

You can throw out Bay's numbers but I'm not gonna overpay him either.  If his asking price gets too high, then I'm cutting ties with him and going in another direction.