Iverson or Marbury?

[JBcat]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

[nickagneta]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

[mjohnson]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

thanks for reminding this comparison..

[GreenFaith1819]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

Very interesting post...so is this to say that AI's assists are a facade?

AI was the Man in Philly..I remember him willing the team to many victories, even giving LA a small challenge in the Finals.

Maybe he is the kind of player that must have the ball in his hands.

Or could it be that AI is challenged on the defensive end? Billups is an extremely tough defender and can post opposing players up as well.

[nickagneta]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

Very interesting post...so is this to say that AI's assists are a facade?

AI was the Man in Philly..I remember him willing the team to many victories, even giving LA a small challenge in the Finals.

Maybe he is the kind of player that must have the ball in his hands.

Or could it be that AI is challenged on the defensive end? Billups is an extremely tough defender and can post opposing players up as well.

Or he's a cancer to team oriented basketball which will never win a championship. He's proven it now in 4 different locations.

[moiso]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

TP.  Perfect.  That really is all one has to know.  All the points and inflated assist numbers from holding onto the ball and attempting to make every play look nice.  And many people think he's a little tough guy competitor, etc.  Who cares, he makes teams worse, period.  He may have been the world one on one champion for 10 years, but as long as it's 5 on 5, he doesn't help you.

[guava_wrench]

Judging by what AI said in the papers, the stuff that nobody seems to pay attention to, is the fact if AI were in a winning situation he would be the "good soldier".

So I have confidence that if AI were explained his role off the Celtics bench, that he would have no issues and would cause zero problems for the squad.

Like in Detroit?

Those are hollow words. It is easy for him to claim all of that when he is not in that position.

If there were evidence of character, I might buy his nonsense.

[ToppersBsktball10]

AI.

[ThaPreacher]

In Marbury's defense, he did nothing to disrupt the team last year. He accepted his role graciously.

The same cannot be said about AI.

Very true.  And he didn't have a problem sharing the ball or playing defense.

Still, being happy coming off the bench doesn't really mean much.  Iverson all the way.

Iverson not being happy coming off the bench has equated to him basically "taking his ball and going home", like the article about him leaving said. Iverson probably is a better player than Marbury, but him not wanting to come off the bench as basically meant he's left the team, as far as we know. Are you SURE that doesn't mean much?

Iverson is probably a better player than Marbury?!? Is that supposed to be irony? You're talking about one of the highest scorers of all time ... it's just amazing to me the amount of people jumping on this "bash Iverson" bandwagon! I mean, the guy has attitude problems and always has, and I wouldn't call him a great fit for this team, but the people saying these things have either never watched him play more than just recently, or had their eyes closed when the did watch him. And what the heck has Marbury ever done to even be compared to AI? We're not comparing apples and oranges here, we're comparing a legitimate superstar to a mediocre player, at best. For those not familiar with what Iverson has accomplished, please take a minute to click on the link below, then PLEASE explain to me how Starbury is even put on the same PAGE with AI!

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/allen_iverson/career_stats.html

This is not a career comparison thread.  It is not, break out the stat sheets and lets see who had more points.
Both of these guards had troubled attitudes and troubled careers.  Both seemed to have difficulty with a number of different coaches and teams.  And both were extremely talented.
The question was, at this point who would you rather have?
Which is really irrelevant because both of these players have likely seen the end of their NBA careers or are in the last vestige of their basketball days.

[Reyquila]

Why are we discussing Iverson?

[Fafnir]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

Chauncy was more efficient with the ball if you look at all the statistics nick, so no they didn't replace Iverson with a worse player. Cherry picking is fun, but ultimately futile. TS%, eFG%, and minutes played are all as important as the stats you mention.

Then you start to consider the fact that Chauncey is also a better defender than Iverson.

[LB3533]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

So Denver winning 54 games had nothing to do with Hilario coming back from injury, or the improved play of J.R. Smith or the reinstatement of Chris Anderson back into the NBA?

It was all just Chauncey Billups right?

[LB3533]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling.  

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

Chauncy was more efficient with the ball if you look at all the statistics nick, so no they didn't replace Iverson with a worse player. Cherry picking is fun, but ultimately futile. TS%, eFG%, and minutes played are all as important as the stats you mention.

Then you start to consider the fact that Chauncey is also a better defender than Iverson.

Chauncey may be the better defender, but the Nuggets didn't seem to benefit that much from it, if at all.

2008 = 106.8 points allowed per 100 possessions

2007 = 106.3 points allowed per 100 possessions

[Fafnir]

My question is if no contending team and only Memphis was willing to go after him in the offseason then why should we now?  I mean I know AI is only 2 years removed from having 26 PPG 7 APG and shooting 45% from the field on a good Denver team but that only a lottery team was willing to offer a contract not much more than the LLE this season is very telling. 

Here's the thing about Iverson that Iverson fans just will never get.

In 2007-08, Iverson shot 45.6% dished out 7.1 assists and scored 26.4 points per game. The Nuggets won 50 games and got boot out of the playoffs in the first round.

In 2008-09, after just a few games, the Nuggets traded Iverson for Chauncey Billups and Billups averaged 9 points per game less than Iverson(17.9), dished out 0.7 assists less than Iverson(6.4) and shot 3.8% points less than Iverson(42%). But the Nuggets won 54 games and took the Lakers to the brink in the Western Conference Finals.

So statistically the Nuggets replaced AI with a WORSE player and got BETTER!!!!

That's all one really has to know about Iverson. Oh, by the way, that's the second time that happened. When they shipped his sorry butt out of Philly, the same thing happened.

Chauncy was more efficient with the ball if you look at all the statistics nick, so no they didn't replace Iverson with a worse player. Cherry picking is fun, but ultimately futile. TS%, eFG%, and minutes played are all as important as the stats you mention.

Then you start to consider the fact that Chauncey is also a better defender than Iverson.

Chauncey may be the better defender, but the Nuggets didn't seem to benefit that much from it, if at all.

2008 = 106.8 points allowed per 100 possessions

2007 = 106.3 points allowed per 100 possessions

Weren't just arguing that his other team mates effected the season?

Chauncey is a better defender, and was a more efficient PG for them. He wasn't the only reason they were better, but he was a big one. His winscore was 3.2 compared to .2. So he was roughly 3/4 of the difference....

[MrTripleDouble10]

The title of this thread could just as easily be:

Bubonic Plauge or Legionnaires Disease

Which would you rather have for 6-8 months?