Baby, Scal and Giddens for Gadzuric and The Fresh Prince

[ssspence]

What use would he be on our current second unit?
 

I think that is absolutely true.  Right now, the C's simply do not need Nocioni, and therefore should not take on the contract.  But the same thing is true with Mbah ah Moute.  Why take on the contract of Gadzuric now (and give up a player who will be in the rotation when he is healthy in Davis, as well as a very useful safety net in Scal), when Mbah ah Moute would be a 10th man at best?  Unless you think he is going to be taking the minutes of Daniels?

Because we have no 'safety net' on the wing. Scal is a 4, Davis is a 4, Williams is a 4, KG is a 4 and Sheed (tho he can play the 5, obv) is a 4. If Williams plays the way he has been (as Ainge mentioned on EEI yesterday), Davis has less value to this team than a true wing defender. The Landlord's a solid defender, fouls less and a far superior rebounder to Davis. His mid-range game has also looked pretty good. What is there in one of their game's that the other doesn't have? I think assuming Davis is better because he's been in a better situation is foolish.

Either Davis or Williams is currently going to be our 5th big. I believe that's a job that Gadzuric can handle, especially considering LRMAM can defend a number of more perimeter oriented PFs in today's NBA where Davis or Williams will struggle. Davis can't defend Bosh or Bargiani, he can't defend Rashard Lewis, he can't defend Josh Smith, he can't defend Michael Beasley, he can't defend Villenuava, and come playoff time when the the Cavs will be using Lebron at the 4 he'll be sitting on the bench as well. LRMAM can guard 3 positions.

I don't think he should take Marquis' minutes, tho we know Marquis has a history of injury and our wing position is thin -- i have faith you won't reply about the virtues of Giddens, TA, Scal or Walker at the 2 or 3 on the 2009-10 Celtics. God forbid one of Ray, Paul or Marquis goes down for any significant period of time and we're back to the same issues as last year.

I imagine him playing an important role as part of a 2nd unit rotation including House, Daniels, Williams and Sheed. We know Doc, so we know the rotation will vary. In some games Luc will play a more important role than Williams. In some games Luc will play a more important role than House. So on and so forth.

[Redz]

Why should the Celtics make any trades at this point?  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Because beating teams senseless is boring?

[Chris]

What use would he be on our current second unit?
 

I think that is absolutely true.  Right now, the C's simply do not need Nocioni, and therefore should not take on the contract.  But the same thing is true with Mbah ah Moute.  Why take on the contract of Gadzuric now (and give up a player who will be in the rotation when he is healthy in Davis, as well as a very useful safety net in Scal), when Mbah ah Moute would be a 10th man at best?  Unless you think he is going to be taking the minutes of Daniels?

Because we have no 'safety net' on the wing. Scal is a 4, Davis is a 4, Williams is a 4, KG is a 4 and Sheed (tho he can play the 5, obv) is a 4. If Williams plays the way he has been (as Ainge mentioned on EEI yesterday), Davis has less value to this team than a true wing defender. The Landlord's a solid defender, fouls less and a far superior rebounder to Davis. His mid-range game has also looked pretty good. What is there in one of their game's that the other doesn't have? I think assuming Davis is better because he's been in a better situation is foolish.

Either Davis or Williams is currently going to be our 5th big. I believe that's a job that Gadzuric can handle, especially considering LRMAM can defend a number of more perimeter oriented PFs in today's NBA where Davis or Williams will struggle. Davis can't defend Bosh or Bargiani, he can't defend Rashard Lewis, he can't defend Josh Smith, he can't defend Michael Beasley, he can't defend Villenuava, and come playoff time when the the Cavs will be using Lebron at the 4 he'll be sitting on the bench as well. LRMAM can guard 3 positions.

I don't think he should take Marquis' minutes, tho we know Marquis has a history of injury and our wing position is thin -- i have faith you won't reply about the virtues of Giddens, TA, Scal or Walker at the 2 or 3 on the 2009-10 Celtics. God forbid one of Ray, Paul or Marquis goes down for any significant period of time and we're back to the same issues as last year.

I imagine him playing an important role as part of a 2nd unit rotation including House, Daniels, Williams and Sheed. We know Doc, so we know the rotation will vary. In some games Luc will play a more important role than Williams. In some games Luc will play a more important role than House. So on and so forth.

So you are going to give up our two "safety nets" up front, and take on an extra $4+ million in salary next season on a completely useless player, just for a "safety net" on the wing?

Why not just sign Ime Udoka?  Or Rashad McCants?  Or Jerry Stackhouse?  Or Wally Szerbiak?  Or Mickeal Galabale (who BTW was the Mbah ah Moute of a few years ago)?

To trade expiring contracts, and useful players in Davis and Scal for a "safety net" is downright wreckless at this point in the season.  Regardless of how high you are on Mbah ah Moute.

[ssspence]

What use would he be on our current second unit?
 

I think that is absolutely true.  Right now, the C's simply do not need Nocioni, and therefore should not take on the contract.  But the same thing is true with Mbah ah Moute.  Why take on the contract of Gadzuric now (and give up a player who will be in the rotation when he is healthy in Davis, as well as a very useful safety net in Scal), when Mbah ah Moute would be a 10th man at best?  Unless you think he is going to be taking the minutes of Daniels?

Because we have no 'safety net' on the wing. Scal is a 4, Davis is a 4, Williams is a 4, KG is a 4 and Sheed (tho he can play the 5, obv) is a 4. If Williams plays the way he has been (as Ainge mentioned on EEI yesterday), Davis has less value to this team than a true wing defender. The Landlord's a solid defender, fouls less and a far superior rebounder to Davis. His mid-range game has also looked pretty good. What is there in one of their game's that the other doesn't have? I think assuming Davis is better because he's been in a better situation is foolish.

Either Davis or Williams is currently going to be our 5th big. I believe that's a job that Gadzuric can handle, especially considering LRMAM can defend a number of more perimeter oriented PFs in today's NBA where Davis or Williams will struggle. Davis can't defend Bosh or Bargiani, he can't defend Rashard Lewis, he can't defend Josh Smith, he can't defend Michael Beasley, he can't defend Villenuava, and come playoff time when the the Cavs will be using Lebron at the 4 he'll be sitting on the bench as well. LRMAM can guard 3 positions.

I don't think he should take Marquis' minutes, tho we know Marquis has a history of injury and our wing position is thin -- i have faith you won't reply about the virtues of Giddens, TA, Scal or Walker at the 2 or 3 on the 2009-10 Celtics. God forbid one of Ray, Paul or Marquis goes down for any significant period of time and we're back to the same issues as last year.

I imagine him playing an important role as part of a 2nd unit rotation including House, Daniels, Williams and Sheed. We know Doc, so we know the rotation will vary. In some games Luc will play a more important role than Williams. In some games Luc will play a more important role than House. So on and so forth.

So you are going to give up our two "safety nets" up front, and take on an extra $4+ million in salary next season on a completely useless player, just for a "safety net" on the wing?

Why not just sign Ime Udoka?  Or Rashad McCants?  Or Jerry Stackhouse?  Or Wally Szerbiak?  Or Mickeal Galabale (who BTW was the Mbah ah Moute of a few years ago)?

To trade expiring contracts, and useful players in Davis and Scal for a "safety net" is downright wreckless at this point in the season.  Regardless of how high you are on Mbah ah Moute.

Chris,

1) You're telling me we shouldn't trade Scal for a guy who you don't see as a rotation player, when Scal is not in the rotation;

2) You're hung-up on the money when I've made a clear arguement about the Cs cap position, the predication that management would have to be on board with the money despite the fact that the deal would not increase pay roll this year and would likely not increase payroll next year from this year, AND of the value of having an expiring contract to trade next summer or season (something you're currently calling reckless to be without);

3) You're further ignoring my point about Davis' usefulness -- does it look like they miss him?

4) You've resorted to comparing the kid to players who are not in even in the NBA;

When you start comparing him to Rashad McCants and Wally Szczerbiak -- guys whose games have nothing to do with Mbah a Moute's and who can't stay in the league -- i think it's time for us to part ways on this one...

[Chris]

1) You're telling me we shouldn't trade Scal for a guy who you don't see as a rotation player, when Scal is not in the rotation;

Correct.  My point is that there is absolutely no reason for the C's to be trading away assets (both trade-wise, as well as guys who could help their team if there are injuries), just to shuffle the chairs at the end of the bench. 

2) You're hung-up on the money when I've made a clear arguement about the Cs cap position, the predication that management would have to be on board with the money despite the fact that the deal would not increase pay roll this year and would likely not increase payroll next year from this year, AND of the value of having an expiring contract to trade next summer or season (something you're currently calling reckless to be without);

I am hung up on the point that you are trading a very valuable expiring contract, that could be VERY important if there is an injury this season, for a contract that no one would touch this season. 

3) You're further ignoring my point about Davis' usefulness -- does it look like they miss him?

Does it look like they miss Mbah ah Moute?  Just because the C's are doing fine without Davis does not mean he is completely dispensable.  Davis is a superior player to Shelden Williams, and will be a part of this rotation when he returns. 

4) You've resorted to comparing the kid to players who are not in even in the NBA;

When you start comparing him to Rashad McCants and Wally Szczerbiak -- guys whose games have nothing to do with Mbah a Moute's and who can't stay in the league -- i think it's time for us to part ways on this one...

The only player I compared him to was Galabale, who was a low draft pick, that came into the league on a terrible team, showed that he was a tremendous athlete, and very good one on one defender, but was incredibly flawed on offense.  He played a lot as a rookie, and everyone thought he was a huge steal, and would turn into a very good NBA player.  Now he is out of the league.

The other guys I was simply listing as legit NBA players that we could pick up as insurance in case of an injury to a wing, without having to give up any assets at all. 

[ssspence]

1) You're telling me we shouldn't trade Scal for a guy who you don't see as a rotation player, when Scal is not in the rotation;

Correct.  My point is that there is absolutely no reason for the C's to be trading away assets (both trade-wise, as well as guys who could help their team if there are injuries), just to shuffle the chairs at the end of the bench. 

2) You're hung-up on the money when I've made a clear arguement about the Cs cap position, the predication that management would have to be on board with the money despite the fact that the deal would not increase pay roll this year and would likely not increase payroll next year from this year, AND of the value of having an expiring contract to trade next summer or season (something you're currently calling reckless to be without);

I am hung up on the point that you are trading a very valuable expiring contract, that could be VERY important if there is an injury this season, for a contract that no one would touch this season. 

3) You're further ignoring my point about Davis' usefulness -- does it look like they miss him?

Does it look like they miss Mbah ah Moute?  Just because the C's are doing fine without Davis does not mean he is completely dispensable.  Davis is a superior player to Shelden Williams, and will be a part of this rotation when he returns. 

4) You've resorted to comparing the kid to players who are not in even in the NBA;

When you start comparing him to Rashad McCants and Wally Szczerbiak -- guys whose games have nothing to do with Mbah a Moute's and who can't stay in the league -- i think it's time for us to part ways on this one...

The only player I compared him to was Galabale, who was a low draft pick, that came into the league on a terrible team, showed that he was a tremendous athlete, and very good one on one defender, but was incredibly flawed on offense.  He played a lot as a rookie, and everyone thought he was a huge steal, and would turn into a very good NBA player.  Now he is out of the league.

The other guys I was simply listing as legit NBA players that we could pick up as insurance in case of an injury to a wing, without having to give up any assets at all. 

right. like i said, comparing him to a guy who doesn't have an NBA job. I like him more, a lot more, than the guy you're comparing him to who doesn't play in the NBA and the other guys you suggest could be solutions in case of injury who also don't play in the NBA. I understand this is your feeling. you've made this very clear now.

[ssspence]

By the way (not that I don't know this will immediately be bashed because it's John Hillinger), but here's ESPN's scouting report of Mbah a Moute for those who haven't had the opportunity to see him play much:

2008-09 season: Welcome to the most amazing story from last season that absolutely nobody talked about. It's rare for a rookie to enter the league and defend competently right away; what Mbah a Moute did went several steps beyond that.

An unheralded second-round draft pick who wasn't expected to play much, Mbah a Moute was one of the best defensive players in the whole league last season. His versatility as a defender was stunning, as he guarded every spot on the floor -- he checked Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol in the same game, for instance -- and it's no surprise the Bucks gave up 4.9 points less per 100 possessions with him on the court.

Mbah a Moute was the biggest reason Milwaukee improved from one of the worst defensive teams to the middle of the NBA pack despite losing its two best players to injury and basically playing without a center for the final two months of the season. For a rookie perimeter player to do this is virtually unprecedented.

Not that anyone noticed. Because he had no previous reputation and Milwaukee is basketball Siberia, he received no votes for the All-Defense team from the league's P.R. directors, er, coaches. This ranks as one of the greatest outrages in recent award vote history. To put this in perspective, 41 different players received votes for the All-Defense team last year, including David Lee, J.R. Smith, Yao Ming and Travis Outlaw. Mbah a Moute was better than at least half of them, and that's being conservative. At some point it will become so obvious that even people outside Milwaukee will have to notice.

As for the rest of his game, Mbah a Moute didn't really do much offensively, averaging just 11.2 points per 40 minutes, but he did a strong job on the glass and earned himself some easy putbacks that way.

Scouting report: Mbah a Moute isn't really a guard or a forward; they should just list his position as "defender." He's 6-9 with long arms, great quickness and the intensity to shut down opponents. Because Mbah a Moute's college coach, UCLA's Ben Howland, is such an advanced defensive expert, Mbah a Moute entered the league with far more knowledge of how to defend than most rookies. He has quick hands, too, and gets his hands on a lot of balls without ever needing to gamble.

As a perimeter defender, he stayed glued to his man, but Milwaukee used him at the 4 often and he was great against pick-and-rolls in that situation because he could switch everything and swallow up the opposing guard. Although he has a light frame, he handled most post-up 4s pretty well too; once he learns the art of flopping he'll get even better at this.

[ssspence]

meanwhile, after breaking his hand punching his buddy, here's what's on Davis' mind:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4625777

[Chris]

meanwhile, after breaking his hand punching his buddy, here's what's on Davis' mind:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4625777

Actually, that is what is on the reporters mind, who wanted to write a fluff piece on Davis.

[ssspence]

meanwhile, after breaking his hand punching his buddy, here's what's on Davis' mind:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4625777

Actually, that is what is on the reporters mind, who wanted to write a fluff piece on Davis.

yeah yeah. it is a fluff piece, but why is davis talkin to reporters anyway. you've acted like a moron. feel shame and get quiet until you're ready to earn you're new contract, guy.

[Chris]

meanwhile, after breaking his hand punching his buddy, here's what's on Davis' mind:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4625777

Actually, that is what is on the reporters mind, who wanted to write a fluff piece on Davis.

yeah yeah. it is a fluff piece, but why is davis talkin to reporters anyway. you've acted like a moron. feel shame and get quiet until you're ready to earn you're new contract, guy.

For all we know, Broussard did this interview 3 weeks ago, and has just had this story in his back pocket for the first time he needed to file one, and didn't have anything better.

Seriously, you are just looking for reasons to rag on the kid.  He made a bad decision.  He is paying for it.  Let's move on.

[Fafnir]

meanwhile, after breaking his hand punching his buddy, here's what's on Davis' mind:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4625777

Actually, that is what is on the reporters mind, who wanted to write a fluff piece on Davis.

yeah yeah. it is a fluff piece, but why is davis talkin to reporters anyway. you've acted like a moron. feel shame and get quiet until you're ready to earn you're new contract, guy.

For all we know, Broussard did this interview 3 weeks ago, and has just had this story in his back pocket for the first time he needed to file one, and didn't have anything better.

Seriously, you are just looking for reasons to rag on the kid.  He made a bad decision.  He is paying for it.  Let's move on.

I think BBD is being silly to think after his NBA career he'd make it in the NFL. But otherwise I don't see much to criticize in that article.

[ssspence]

meanwhile, after breaking his hand punching his buddy, here's what's on Davis' mind:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4625777

Actually, that is what is on the reporters mind, who wanted to write a fluff piece on Davis.

yeah yeah. it is a fluff piece, but why is davis talkin to reporters anyway. you've acted like a moron. feel shame and get quiet until you're ready to earn you're new contract, guy.

For all we know, Broussard did this interview 3 weeks ago, and has just had this story in his back pocket for the first time he needed to file one, and didn't have anything better.

Seriously, you are just looking for reasons to rag on the kid.  He made a bad decision.  He is paying for it.  Let's move on.

I'm not looking to rag on the kid. I was very impressed by Davis last season and would like to have last season's Davis back.

He's the one talking about the NFL. As you know I'm in favor of moving on by trading him, which I imagine the Cs have been considering ever since they were able to sign him so cheap. He's going to be a nice chip this season for a young team looking for some size.

One thing I know: I don't want him whining about playing time so he can become an all-star so he can move on to being a defensive lineman.

[Fafnir]

meanwhile, after breaking his hand punching his buddy, here's what's on Davis' mind:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4625777

Actually, that is what is on the reporters mind, who wanted to write a fluff piece on Davis.

yeah yeah. it is a fluff piece, but why is davis talkin to reporters anyway. you've acted like a moron. feel shame and get quiet until you're ready to earn you're new contract, guy.

For all we know, Broussard did this interview 3 weeks ago, and has just had this story in his back pocket for the first time he needed to file one, and didn't have anything better.

Seriously, you are just looking for reasons to rag on the kid.  He made a bad decision.  He is paying for it.  Let's move on.

I'm not looking to rag on the kid. I was very impressed by Davis last season and would like to have last season's Davis back.

He's the one talking about the NFL. As you know I'm in favor of moving on by trading him, which I imagine the Cs have been considering ever since they were able to sign him so cheap. He's going to be a nice chip this season for a young team looking for some size.

One thing I know: I don't want him whining about playing time so he can become an all-star so he can move on to being a defensive lineman.

Whining? I think he was being honest, he won't get the minutes to become an All-star with KG/Sheed on the team over the next two years.

Would you rather he be delusional and think he's going to play 30 minutes a game?

[ssspence]

meanwhile, after breaking his hand punching his buddy, here's what's on Davis' mind:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=4625777

Actually, that is what is on the reporters mind, who wanted to write a fluff piece on Davis.

yeah yeah. it is a fluff piece, but why is davis talkin to reporters anyway. you've acted like a moron. feel shame and get quiet until you're ready to earn you're new contract, guy.

For all we know, Broussard did this interview 3 weeks ago, and has just had this story in his back pocket for the first time he needed to file one, and didn't have anything better.

Seriously, you are just looking for reasons to rag on the kid.  He made a bad decision.  He is paying for it.  Let's move on.

I'm not looking to rag on the kid. I was very impressed by Davis last season and would like to have last season's Davis back.

He's the one talking about the NFL. As you know I'm in favor of moving on by trading him, which I imagine the Cs have been considering ever since they were able to sign him so cheap. He's going to be a nice chip this season for a young team looking for some size.

One thing I know: I don't want him whining about playing time so he can become an all-star so he can move on to being a defensive lineman.

Whining? I think he was being honest, he won't get the minutes to become an All-star with KG/Sheed on the team over the next two years.

Would you rather he be delusional and think he's going to play 30 minutes a game?

I was refering more to the article before the season about the transition back to fewer minutes behind KG and Sheed. But sure, whining was a bit strong, sorry. I mean the guy's name is Baby, what can I say....