We'll know the fate of Giddens today...

[Brickowski]

Here's an exercise for you: go back to 2003 and build an imaginary league.  The teams would consist of the best 8-man rotation taken from players selected by each NBA team in the draft from 2003 (when Ainge started drafting) to the present.

I submit that Ainge's team would lead the league, although Orlando (Howard) would be right up there. Also consider the fact that Ainge has never picked higher than 5th.

Al Jefferson
Kendrick Perkins
Rajon Rondo
Delonte West
Ryan Gomes
Jeff Green
Leon Powe
Glenn Davis

Here are Cleveland's 8, just for comparison

LeBron James
Jason Kapono
J.J. Hickson
Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson

Well, that's five, now choose your three bench players from the following sorry lot:

Luke Jackson (LOL, they passed on Biedrins and Big Al to take a total bust)  
Martynas Andriuskevicius (another bust)
Christian Eyenga

Orlando did a little better:


Dwight Howard
Za Za Pachilia
Anderson Varejao
J.J. Reddick
Jameer Nelson (bought rights from Denver for a future first)
Dahantay Jones
Rayshaun Terry
Courtney Lee

But they struck out on:

Brad Newley
Fran Vasquez (stayed in Europe)
Antonio Burks
Reece Gaines
James Augustine
Sasha Kaun (bought rights on draft night)

So I challege anyone to find another 8-man team that would finish ahead of the "Celtics 8" over an 82 game season.

[Chris]

I think Danny drafted for raw talent in the first round with the intention of trading them at some point.  He chose experienced players with some kind of issue (undersized / injury) who could contribute in the second round.

I've always thought Rivers is grossly overrated in here and everywhere else as a developer of players.  Perk and Jefferson were going nowhere until Clifford Ray came on board.  The defense was a collossal joke until Thibs came on board.

The thing is, you cannot blame Doc for the lack of development of certain players, and then not give him credit for those that did develop.  

The fact is, it is not a head coaches job to develop players.  It is a head coaches job to win basketball games.  What a good head coach does is surround himself with good assistants to do the little stuff, such as work with big men, or run the defense.

Remember, before the defense got good, Doc wasn't running it then either, it was Tony Brown.  

Ultimately, in 2006, Doc was a terrible head coach.  His team was terrible, and therefore he did not do his job.  However, in 2008 and 2009 he did an excellent job as a head coach.

Really, if you name any head coach who is known for developing young players, there is almost certainly a great assistant or two who are the ones who are really doing the work there.

[JSD]

I think we could see another Tony Allen like move where Danny declines the team option and then signs him for less money.

[jdpapa3]

Come on. Powe got a minimum deal because he got hurt. I think he would've gotten $12/4 yrs if he did not suffer that injury. Powe is one of those guys that shows up on all of those efficiency/rebounding advanced statistics.

I think it's funny that we're calling a guy mediocre at drafting when he got Rajon Rondo and Al Jefferson OUT OF THE LOTTERY. Below 13!!! And a starting center at 27??? A guy that defends Dwight Howard just as well as anyone out there?! Just crazy. I just watched Howard dominate the Raptors big men the other day and it makes you realize how valuable Perk is.

Ainge is a great drafter. I don't know if there are any better out there. I'm unclear as to who was drafting for SA earlier in this decade (Buford or Pop), but Ginobili and Parker were incredible. The Warriors also plucked out Ellis, Biedrins and Arenas, but they've busted pretty bad on the higher picks.

[the_Bird]

Couple of last thoughts on Danny's drafting acumen that probably don't change the conclusions.

Pretend that the JR and Walker selections were flip-flopped, that we took Walker at #30 and Giddens at #47.  Think about what we got from the draft as a whole given both slots (and ignoring the Turkish kid).  Entirely realistic, Walker was considered to have an outside shot of being a 1st-rounder and JR was thought by many to be a second rounder.  We wouldn't be thinking anything bad about that draft, Walker's shown flashed although he's been hurt, and JR wouldn't be a bust if he was a mid-2nd rounder.  Would just be one of many players who don't make it.

Consider that we likely got lucky with the Big Al pick, since from many accounts Swifty would have been the pick if he were available.  Danny still got the right guy, but we dodged a bullet.  Even though Bobby was showing some abilities before he got hurt, he never looked like he was going to be as good as Big Al. 

Counterbalance that by getting unlucky with the Gerald pick.  Don't think he had really scouted GG that closely, since they thought he was going a lot earlier.  Wanted Granger, who went to Indiana right ahead of us (and who would have been an outstanding pick).

I've also been convinced since the moment they made the selection that they drafted Gerald to trade him.  He was never a "Danny guy," he was someone they wanted to develop a bit and turn into a better draft pick or a better player.  Can't prove that, it's just always been my sense that once Granger was gone he made that pick because Gerald was seen as the best asset at that point, not necessarily the best prospect.

So, net I view him as being lucky with Big Al, unlucky with GG, and the Giddens pick I'm inclined to view a little less critically when I think about that whole draft.

Danny's definitely been an above-average drafter, just not necessarily as great as he gets credit for.  Not all that he touches turns to gold.

[Mr October]

Couple of last thoughts on Danny's drafting acumen that probably don't change the conclusions.

Pretend that the JR and Walker selections were flip-flopped, that we took Walker at #30 and Giddens at #47.  Think about what we got from the draft as a whole given both slots (and ignoring the Turkish kid).  Entirely realistic, Walker was considered to have an outside shot of being a 1st-rounder and JR was thought by many to be a second rounder.  We wouldn't be thinking anything bad about that draft, Walker's shown flashed although he's been hurt, and JR wouldn't be a bust if he was a mid-2nd rounder.  Would just be one of many players who don't make it.

Consider that we likely got lucky with the Big Al pick, since from many accounts Swifty would have been the pick if he were available.  Danny still got the right guy, but we dodged a bullet.  Even though Bobby was showing some abilities before he got hurt, he never looked like he was going to be as good as Big Al. 

Counterbalance that by getting unlucky with the Gerald pick.  Don't think he had really scouted GG that closely, since they thought he was going a lot earlier.  Wanted Granger, who went to Indiana right ahead of us (and who would have been an outstanding pick).

I've also been convinced since the moment they made the selection that they drafted Gerald to trade him.  He was never a "Danny guy," he was someone they wanted to develop a bit and turn into a better draft pick or a better player.  Can't prove that, it's just always been my sense that once Granger was gone he made that pick because Gerald was seen as the best asset at that point, not necessarily the best prospect.

So, net I view him as being lucky with Big Al, unlucky with GG, and the Giddens pick I'm inclined to view a little less critically when I think about that whole draft.

Danny's definitely been an above-average drafter, just not necessarily as great as he gets credit for.  Not all that he touches turns to gold.

Don't forget that Rondo was a home run, considering he was picked in the 20s.

[xmuscularghandix]

Would anyone be open to us not picking up the option, then getting him at the league minimum when noone else wants him? Cause 6 months ago he sucked and was a huge bust, then 6 weeks ago he'd passed right over TA and Walker, then 6 days ago he became a huge loser that makes "idiotic" plays.

He's had quite an up and down career for a player whose played under 100 minutes...

scratch that, he's played 20 MINTUTES of NBA basketball.

[Mr October]

scratch that, he's played 20 MINTUTES of NBA basketball.

I really have no idea what he can do. I've seen so little of him. 

He should have been good enough to show something by now, if he is worth more than the minimum. If he is not extended to a 3rd year, so be it.

If he breaks through this year, lets resign him next summer. Other than that i don't have too much invested in the C's 15th man.

[celticinorlando]

package him and tony for someone that can actually help the celtics

[ssspence]

Here's an exercise for you: go back to 2003 and build an imaginary league.  The teams would consist of the best 8-man rotation taken from players selected by each NBA team in the draft from 2003 (when Ainge started drafting) to the present.

I submit that Ainge's team would lead the league, although Orlando (Howard) would be right up there. Also consider the fact that Ainge has never picked higher than 5th.

Al Jefferson
Kendrick Perkins
Rajon Rondo
Delonte West
Ryan Gomes
Jeff Green
Leon Powe
Glenn Davis

Here are Cleveland's 8, just for comparison

LeBron James
Jason Kapono
J.J. Hickson
Shannon Brown
Daniel Gibson

Well, that's five, now choose your three bench players from the following sorry lot:

Luke Jackson (LOL, they passed on Biedrins and Big Al to take a total bust)  
Martynas Andriuskevicius (another bust)
Christian Eyenga

Orlando did a little better:


Dwight Howard
Za Za Pachilia
Anderson Varejao
J.J. Reddick
Jameer Nelson (bought rights from Denver for a future first)
Dahantay Jones
Rayshaun Terry
Courtney Lee

But they struck out on:

Brad Newley
Fran Vasquez (stayed in Europe)
Antonio Burks
Reece Gaines
James Augustine
Sasha Kaun (bought rights on draft night)

So I challege anyone to find another 8-man team that would finish ahead of the "Celtics 8" over an 82 game season.

think Dahntey Jones was drafted by the Cs and sent to Memphis with Troy Bell as part of the Marcus Banks / Kendrick Perkins deal.

[Lucky17]

Here's an exercise for you: go back to 2003 and build an imaginary league.  The teams would consist of the best 8-man rotation taken from players selected by each NBA team in the draft from 2003 (when Ainge started drafting) to the present.

San Antonio Spurs, if you include the 2002 Draft:

DeJuan Blair (2009)
George Hill (2008)
Tiago Splitter (2007)
Ian Mahinmi (2005)
Beno Udrih (2004)
Leandro Barbosa (2003)
John Salmons (2002)
Luis Scola (2002)

Not bad.

[xmuscularghandix]

package him and tony for someone that can actually help the celtics

I don't know what you guys want... The Celtics have a bench that has formed a bond together. When Baby comes back we're 9 deep, arguably 10 deep if you beleive that Shelden can still contribute.

Why would we trade to get a 11th man that isn't going to get minutes and could potentially cause problems in the clubhouse? I just don't get it. JR doesn't complain, he cheers on every play and he's always the first person up to give high fives on the breaks.

Everyone just assumes that Nocioni is just gonna come here and accept this new role becuase he's on the all mighty Boston Celtics. Isn't he starting? Now he's gonna play -20 minutes a game and just wait around in case someone gets hurt? I'd rather we just trade TA for a 2nd round pick or something.

[celticinorlando]

jr contributes zero. i want someone off the bench that can contribute...i think if boston has another SG/SF that can contribute then it would help.

[Tai]

package him and tony for someone that can actually help the celtics

I don't know what you guys want...

Oh that's easy. They want TA gone. Reading most of these people's posts, when they say they'd trade TA for a bag of chips + soda, I almost feel like I believe they actually mean that.  

[celticinorlando]

package him and tony for someone that can actually help the celtics

I don't know what you guys want...

Oh that's easy. They want TA gone. Reading most of these people's posts, when they say they'd trade TA for a bag of chips + soda, I almost feel like I believe they actually mean that.  

rack of basketballs works for me