We'll know the fate of Giddens today...

[Brendan]

So the total of Celtics' expiring contracts increases by $1.1 million at 6:30 this evening? Can't say it would be a surprise.

As for the vaunted draft expertise of one Daniel Ainge I'm not sure his prowess is so great:

2003 Dahntay Jones and Troy Bell - which he traded away for Kendrick Perkins and Marcus Banks

2004 Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Brandon Hunter

2005 Gerald Green, Oriene Green, Ryan Gomes

2006 Randy Foye - who was then traded for Sebastian Telfair

2007 Gabe Pruitt, Jeff Green - traded to Seattle with others for Ray Allen and rights to Glen Davis

2008 J. R. Giddens, Semih Erden

2009 Lester Hudson


Now granted, Danny did turn some of these draft picks into Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, eventually, and was also good enough to target Kendrick Perkins, Glen Davis, and Rajon Rondo as talents and trade for their rights, but strictly as a drafter of talent I would say he is okay. Nothing special. He has made his bed with this current team through trades, IMO, not through drafting.

I mean end results of draft day and draft day trades have been exceptional but without the words  "draft day trades" I can't use the word exceptional. There have been a bunch of bad acquisitions on draft day as well.

Brandon Hunter
Marcus Banks
Sebastian Telfair
Oriene Greene
Gerald Green
J. R. Giddens
Gabe Pruitt
Brandon Hunter
Tony Allen

For six years of drafting and acquiring, that's a lot of misses as well. The thing is for every one of his misses he hits huge. Overall the effect is excellent but whether he can continue to parlay his current talent into draft day giant successes will remain to be seen now that the well of good young talent is running dry.

Your analysis is slanted. You can't include Banks and Telfair in who he drafted and not include Rondo. He traded for the pick and picked the player.

[nickagneta]

So the total of Celtics' expiring contracts increases by $1.1 million at 6:30 this evening? Can't say it would be a surprise.

As for the vaunted draft expertise of one Daniel Ainge I'm not sure his prowess is so great:

2003 Dahntay Jones and Troy Bell - which he traded away for Kendrick Perkins and Marcus Banks

2004 Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Brandon Hunter

2005 Gerald Green, Oriene Green, Ryan Gomes

2006 Randy Foye - who was then traded for Sebastian Telfair

2007 Gabe Pruitt, Jeff Green - traded to Seattle with others for Ray Allen and rights to Glen Davis

2008 J. R. Giddens, Semih Erden

2009 Lester Hudson


Now granted, Danny did turn some of these draft picks into Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, eventually, and was also good enough to target Kendrick Perkins, Glen Davis, and Rajon Rondo as talents and trade for their rights, but strictly as a drafter of talent I would say he is okay. Nothing special. He has made his bed with this current team through trades, IMO, not through drafting.

I mean end results of draft day and draft day trades have been exceptional but without the words  "draft day trades" I can't use the word exceptional. There have been a bunch of bad acquisitions on draft day as well.

Brandon Hunter
Marcus Banks
Sebastian Telfair
Oriene Greene
Gerald Green
J. R. Giddens
Gabe Pruitt
Brandon Hunter
Tony Allen

For six years of drafting and acquiring, that's a lot of misses as well. The thing is for every one of his misses he hits huge. Overall the effect is excellent but whether he can continue to parlay his current talent into draft day giant successes will remain to be seen now that the well of good young talent is running dry.

Your analysis is slanted. You can't include Banks and Telfair in who he drafted and not include Rondo. He traded for the pick and picked the player.

I included Rondo....take another read.

[BudweiserCeltic]

We have about 7-9 players who play wing positions being potential free-agents next season. I see little harm in keeping Giddens around.

Of course, we have rookies coming next year that we might want space for. There's value in having him as an expiring contract this year.

I can really see reasonable justifications for whatever decision is made.

I'll say this, if they don't give Giddens the option, he's time in Boston will likely be done since the Celtics will have little motivation to keep developing him.

[Roy Hobbs]

So the total of Celtics' expiring contracts increases by $1.1 million at 6:30 this evening? Can't say it would be a surprise.

As for the vaunted draft expertise of one Daniel Ainge I'm not sure his prowess is so great:

2003 Dahntay Jones and Troy Bell - which he traded away for Kendrick Perkins and Marcus Banks

2004 Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Brandon Hunter

2005 Gerald Green, Oriene Green, Ryan Gomes

2006 Randy Foye - who was then traded for Sebastian Telfair

2007 Gabe Pruitt, Jeff Green - traded to Seattle with others for Ray Allen and rights to Glen Davis

2008 J. R. Giddens, Semih Erden

2009 Lester Hudson


Now granted, Danny did turn some of these draft picks into Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett, eventually, and was also good enough to target Kendrick Perkins, Glen Davis, and Rajon Rondo as talents and trade for their rights, but strictly as a drafter of talent I would say he is okay. Nothing special. He has made his bed with this current team through trades, IMO, not through drafting.

I mean end results of draft day and draft day trades have been exceptional but without the words  "draft day trades" I can't use the word exceptional. There have been a bunch of bad acquisitions on draft day as well.

Brandon Hunter
Marcus Banks
Sebastian Telfair
Oriene Greene
Gerald Green
J. R. Giddens
Gabe Pruitt
Brandon Hunter
Tony Allen

For six years of drafting and acquiring, that's a lot of misses as well. The thing is for every one of his misses he hits huge. Overall the effect is excellent but whether he can continue to parlay his current talent into draft day giant successes will remain to be seen now that the well of good young talent is running dry.

Don't picks have to be judged relative to draft position?  You're calling guys like Orien Greene and Brandon Hunter busts, despite being picked in the second round?  That seems exceedingly unfair.

To me, Danny's only real misses were Gerald Green -- there were other good players on the board, including a Danny favorite in Monta Ellis -- Marcus Banks, and J.R. Giddens (he was picked too high, and Danny misjudged how NBA ready he was).

Telfair came along with clearing something like $12 million off the books.  We picked up Theo Ratliff's expiring deal, which became a huge trade chip in the KG acquisition.

Tony Allen has showed more than most guys picked 20th+ in the draft.  He's not a smart player, but he could play at this level prior to injuries.

Big Al, Rondo, Gomes, Powe, and BBD were all excellent picks relative to draft position.

[Roy Hobbs]

We have about 7-9 players who play wing positions being potential free-agents next season. I see little harm in keeping Giddens around.

If the team wants him back, I'm sure they can get him for less than $1.1 million.  No other team will offer more than the minimum.

[Chris]

So the total of Celtics' expiring contracts increases by $1.1 million at 6:30 this evening? Can't say it would be a surprise.

As for the vaunted draft expertise of one Daniel Ainge I'm not sure his prowess is so great:

2003 Dahntay Jones and Troy Bell - which he traded away for Kendrick Perkins and Marcus Banks

2004 Al Jefferson, Delonte West, Tony Allen, Brandon Hunter

2005 Gerald Green, Oriene Green, Ryan Gomes

2006 Randy Foye - who was then traded for Sebastian Telfair

2007 Gabe Pruitt, Jeff Green - traded to Seattle with others for Ray Allen and rights to Glen Davis

2008 J. R. Giddens, Semih Erden

2009 Lester Hudson

While I agree that Danny's draft "genius" has been about as overstated as Belichicks has, this list is about as deceiving as I have ever seen.  We all know it is completely irrelevant who the C's drafted, if it is not who they ended up with on their team.  

I agree that he has done most of his work through trades, but I think putting a completely useless list like this does not really further your point.

[the_Bird]

Gerald was the one real bad miss, but we should remember that the kid was projected to go as high as #3 and had Indiana not selected Danny Granger right in front of us, Granger was likely to have been the selection.

I do think that Danny's supposed "prowess" for second-round picks has been overstated.  Lots of the guys that he picked made the roster and even got some PT, but that was primarily due to how weak the rest of the team was that we NEEDED bodies like Orien Greene.   His second-round "hits" were primarily Gomes and BBD, neither of whom has completely overcome the reasons they weren't picked until the second round yet.  On a really good team, Gomes would be a fringe-rotation player, same as BBD.  7th-men at best, neither should be starting for a team with playoff aspirations.  The other guys we had high hopes for when they were in green have basically fizzled out when they went on to other squads.

I know they were in different draft classes, but Giddens and BBD were drafted at almost the exact same spot, just one happened to be a late-1st rounder and the other a high second rounder.  If BBD was picked four spots earlier, he wouldn't be considered nearly as much of a steal, and if Giddens was drafted four spots later he wouldn't be considered nearly as much of a bust.

[nickagneta]

Did everyone miss the part where I said this:

I mean end results of draft day and draft day trades have been exceptional but without the words  "draft day trades" I can't use the word exceptional.

I am questioning his drafting prowess not his draft day management prowess. That has been exceptional. And though I did not go into the details of his Portland trade in 2006, Seattle trade in 2007, Memphis trade in 2003, or Minnesota trade in 2007 I thought I covered it.

I will freely accept criticism over not mentioning draft position, that is very fair, I probably should have mentioned that but if I start doing that should I not then start to point out all the players he could have gotten instead of Tony Allen, JR Giddens, Oriene Greene, Gerald Green, Randy Foye, et al?

Players like Chris Douglas Roberts, Luc Mbah a Moute, Marc Gasol, Ramon Sessions, Rudy Gay, David Lee, Marcin Gortat, Linas Kleiza, Von Wafer, Kevin Martin, Trevor Ariza, Anderson Varejao, Chris Duhon and some of the other players he missed?

[Spilling Green Dye]

He's toast

Pretty much sums it up.  TP brick

[Fafnir]

Everyone misses Nick, I think Danny's hit percentage compares very well with his competitors.

[Roy Hobbs]

Did everyone miss the part where I said this:

I mean end results of draft day and draft day trades have been exceptional but without the words  "draft day trades" I can't use the word exceptional.

I am questioning his drafting prowess not his draft day management prowess. That has been exceptional. And though I did not go into the details of his Portland trade in 2006, Seattle trade in 2007, Memphis trade in 2003, or Minnesota trade in 2007 I thought I covered it.

Well, you seem to be saying that Danny chose Dahntay Jones and Troy Bell on his own volition.  That's simply not true; it was a pre-arranged deal.  How can the picks that Memphis made be held against Danny?

Danny doesn't get any credit or blame for the Jones, Bell, Foye, and Green picks; those were all selections made at the direction of other teams.

[Chris]

Did everyone miss the part where I said this:

I mean end results of draft day and draft day trades have been exceptional but without the words  "draft day trades" I can't use the word exceptional.

My point is that when you put a list like you did, which was completely useless, and deceiving, many of us will simply stop reading the rest of the post, because we feel like you are taking us all for fools by even posting that.

So, yes, I missed that part.

[nickagneta]

I think the issue is that sometimes at CB, and I have done this, when someone is trying to make a point that is slightly critical or even just trying to paint a less green version of things, people get up in arms.

All I was trying to say is that Roy was painting Giddens as "a rare Ainge misfire". I just don't think that is true. I think he misfires quite a bit. Less than many, more than some. My post was to illustrate that when he is drafting it is not a rare thing for him to miss, it is quite common. Were some of his draft picks at the behest of other teams? Yes. But then who he brought in has to also be looked at.

His draft day dealings have overall been great, but it is not a rare thing for him to do very poorly as well. He has just been very good at taking those misses and turning them into another opportunity to succeed.

But come on, as I think I have illustrated, I am not trying to be overly critical of Ainge I just think saying he rarely misses is looking at the world through very Green glasses. He misses a lot. Everyone does. It is the nature of the business.

[jdpapa3]

Yea, it's not like Phoenix drafted Rondo and then 3 hours after the draft Ainge tried to whip up a few million to trade for him: It was the Celtics telling Phoenix who to take.

Jefferson at 15, Perkins at 27, and Rondo at 21 are just phenomenal. I mean, Rondo and the second pick in his draft should be getting paid the same in their second contract (though Portland overpaid).

Giddens definitely looks like a miss...my hope in him has been completely demolished. Jury still out on Bill Walker, imo. Doc had some faith in him and he has NBA talent for sure.

I don't think you can ever call a second round pick a misfire. 30th pick might as well be a second rounder with how late it is...

Misfires were Gerald, Marcus.

[Chris]

I think the issue is that sometimes at CB, and I have done this, when someone is trying to make a point that is slightly critical or even just trying to paint a less green version of things, people get up in arms.

All I was trying to say is that Roy was painting Giddens as "a rare Ainge misfire". I just don't think that is true. I think he misfires quite a bit. Less than many, more than some. My post was to illustrate that when he is drafting it is not a rare thing for him to miss, it is quite common. Were some of his draft picks at the behest of other teams? Yes. But then who he brought in has to also be looked at.

His draft day dealings have overall been great, but it is not a rare thing for him to do very poorly as well. He has just been very good at taking those misses and turning them into another opportunity to succeed.

But come on, as I think I have illustrated, I am not trying to be overly critical of Ainge I just think saying he rarely misses is looking at the world through very Green glasses. He misses a lot. Everyone does. It is the nature of the business.

Well, lets just say I think you are skewing things WAY too much to make your point.  And this is coming from someone who agrees with your point.