Author Topic: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....  (Read 7304 times)

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Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2009, 02:41:14 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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i'm not sold on rondo being a top 5 point guard. only 5 players in the league can be in the top five, keep in mind
Williams, Paul, Arenas, Billups, and Rage.

I think he's definitely in the discussion along with Nash, Kidd, Parker, and Davis for that 5th spot.

You're overlooking Devin Harris.  Unless last year was a major fluke, he's in the discussion for top 8 at least.

Also, I'd put Parker solidly ahead of Rajon, Arenas, and perhaps Billups.  He posted the second highest PER among point guards last year.
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Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2009, 02:45:35 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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i'm not sold on rondo being a top 5 point guard. only 5 players in the league can be in the top five, keep in mind
Williams, Paul, Arenas, Billups, and Rage.

I think he's definitely in the discussion along with Nash, Kidd, Parker, and Davis for that 5th spot.

Substitute Parker for Gilbert and that list makes more sense.

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2009, 02:48:52 PM »

Offline BballTim

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i'm not sold on rondo being a top 5 point guard. only 5 players in the league can be in the top five, keep in mind
Williams, Paul, Arenas, Billups, and Rage.

I think he's definitely in the discussion along with Nash, Kidd, Parker, and Davis for that 5th spot.

Substitute Parker for Gilbert and that list makes more sense.

 And take Davis off of it...

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2009, 02:50:00 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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i'm not sold on rondo being a top 5 point guard. only 5 players in the league can be in the top five, keep in mind
Williams, Paul, Arenas, Billups, and Rage.

I think he's definitely in the discussion along with Nash, Kidd, Parker, and Davis for that 5th spot.

Substitute Parker for Gilbert and that list makes more sense.

 And take Davis off of it...
Billups is likely to fall off of it too. He's aging pretty quick now. I thought Nash would be done first....

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2009, 03:02:09 PM »

Offline Kwhit10

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Who has the money next year to offer Rondo what he is looking for?  He won't get what he is asking for next year on the open market especially when the cap falls.  Maybe that's why the C's want to wait it out, rather than offering up to the $60 mil if they can match in the summmer anyways if someone even offers that.

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2009, 03:16:05 PM »

Offline mgent

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Rating NBA PGs is one of the hardest things in the world.  Nobody can ever agree on a list.

I'd be willing to swap Parker for either Arenas, Billups, or Rajon in the top 5 discussion.
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Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2009, 03:43:57 PM »

Offline JudsonMerrill

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Who has the money next year to offer Rondo what he is looking for?  He won't get what he is asking for next year on the open market especially when the cap falls.  Maybe that's why the C's want to wait it out, rather than offering up to the $60 mil if they can match in the summmer anyways if someone even offers that.

I think we're having this conversation in exactly the terms Rondo and Duffy would like us to use. "What's Rondo worth?"

But, on the other side of the negotiation, the Celtics and Ainge have to answer a slightly different question. "What do we have to pay to keep Rondo?" Players don't get paid what they're worth. They get paid what they can get. Scalabrine isn't worth his contract. Perkins is worth more than his.

So, if Rondo is asking for $12M per, Ainge has to figure if there's any way he could end up commanding that next summer. Even if Rondo leads the league in assists this year or we go to the Finals and he gets loads of national exposure, I don't think there is.

Using Marc Stein's 2010 numbers published the other day, there are seven teams that *could* have about $12M to give away. The Clippers, Bulls, Wolves, and Nets make no sense as Rondo destinations because they've got elite point guards or, in the case of the Wolves, 19 point guards.

That leaves NY, Miami, and OKC. The Thunder passed on Rubio because they thought it would tick off Westbrook and they think he's their solution at PG. So, if they do even decide to spend their money, I'm guessing that's going to a front court player.

Leaving the Knicks and the Heat. Both will have a ton of money. And Rondo would be a scary fit in D'Antoni's offense.

Assuming, James, Wade, and Bosh all stay put and it's the second tier of free agents that cash in on the available money, would either of those teams offer Rondo more than he's asking right now?

The Knicks will be under incredible pressure to get a ticket seller and a cornerstone. If they whiff on the class of '03, Walsh could sell Stoudemire or Boozer as that guy. I don't think he could sell Rondo as the Knickerbocker Jesus. Given all the hype, are Knicks fans going to be happy getting a franchise player who doesn't score? Especially given that there will only be six other guys under contract? Maybe Walsh would pursue Rondo *after* he's got a big ticket seller, but that means he'd be offering closer to $8M or $9M per.

Miami makes some sense because, assuming they keep Wade, they've already got their marquee guy. (Wade handles the ball so much, I'm not sure Rondo's a great basketball fit, but let's ignore that for now...) The rumors coming out of South Beach all focus on a marquee big man. (Maybe, for some reason, they don't want to put their entire front court hopes in the hands of Beasley.) I see the bulk of their money going to recruit Bosh, Boozer, or Stoudemire. Again, maybe Riley would turn to Rondo once he got his big man. But he'd have little left to offer.

Even if Riley or Walsh was interested in Rondo above all other players, number 9 will be a restricted free agent and they won't pursue him until all the big UFAs are signed. With the Celtics no doubt claiming they'll match, no one will sign Rondo to an offer sheet and tie up their money for 7 days until the other marquee players are sorted out. Either team *could* still have money to spend at that point, but from their point of view, an UFA is a bird in hand and Rondo is two in a bush. Even if you sign him, you might not get.

I don't see the Heat and the Knicks sitting out of the big name feeding frenzy, hoarding $12M-max money, just to offer it to Rondo and maybe not even get him. (Plus, I hear the kid has attitude problems. It was for this weekend's negotiation, I assume, that Ainge ragged on Rondo all summer.) Either team could sign him to a sheet, but the chances that it will be much more expensive than what the Celtics are willing to pay right now seem very slim.

Of course, this is all just wild speculation. But it's speculation Ainge and Duffy are also engaged in right now. If I was Ainge, I would see nothing about next summer that would compel me to move much beyond $10M per for Mr. Rondo's services. Rondo can sign that deal now or he can sign it next summer. It's up to him.

He might be worth more, but there's no reason to pay more.
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Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2009, 04:44:37 PM »

Offline footey

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i'm not sold on rondo being a top 5 point guard. only 5 players in the league can be in the top five, keep in mind
Williams, Paul, Arenas, Billups, and Rage.

I think he's definitely in the discussion along with Nash, Kidd, Parker, and Davis for that 5th spot.

When you consider we are talking about predicted performance the next five years, none of those names (other than Parker) in the latter group are in the discussion with Rondo.

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2009, 04:50:52 PM »

Offline snively

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Who has the money next year to offer Rondo what he is looking for?  He won't get what he is asking for next year on the open market especially when the cap falls.  Maybe that's why the C's want to wait it out, rather than offering up to the $60 mil if they can match in the summmer anyways if someone even offers that.

I think we're having this conversation in exactly the terms Rondo and Duffy would like us to use. "What's Rondo worth?"

But, on the other side of the negotiation, the Celtics and Ainge have to answer a slightly different question. "What do we have to pay to keep Rondo?" Players don't get paid what they're worth. They get paid what they can get. Scalabrine isn't worth his contract. Perkins is worth more than his.

So, if Rondo is asking for $12M per, Ainge has to figure if there's any way he could end up commanding that next summer. Even if Rondo leads the league in assists this year or we go to the Finals and he gets loads of national exposure, I don't think there is.

Using Marc Stein's 2010 numbers published the other day, there are seven teams that *could* have about $12M to give away. The Clippers, Bulls, Wolves, and Nets make no sense as Rondo destinations because they've got elite point guards or, in the case of the Wolves, 19 point guards.

That leaves NY, Miami, and OKC. The Thunder passed on Rubio because they thought it would tick off Westbrook and they think he's their solution at PG. So, if they do even decide to spend their money, I'm guessing that's going to a front court player.

Leaving the Knicks and the Heat. Both will have a ton of money. And Rondo would be a scary fit in D'Antoni's offense.

Assuming, James, Wade, and Bosh all stay put and it's the second tier of free agents that cash in on the available money, would either of those teams offer Rondo more than he's asking right now?

The Knicks will be under incredible pressure to get a ticket seller and a cornerstone. If they whiff on the class of '03, Walsh could sell Stoudemire or Boozer as that guy. I don't think he could sell Rondo as the Knickerbocker Jesus. Given all the hype, are Knicks fans going to be happy getting a franchise player who doesn't score? Especially given that there will only be six other guys under contract? Maybe Walsh would pursue Rondo *after* he's got a big ticket seller, but that means he'd be offering closer to $8M or $9M per.

Miami makes some sense because, assuming they keep Wade, they've already got their marquee guy. (Wade handles the ball so much, I'm not sure Rondo's a great basketball fit, but let's ignore that for now...) The rumors coming out of South Beach all focus on a marquee big man. (Maybe, for some reason, they don't want to put their entire front court hopes in the hands of Beasley.) I see the bulk of their money going to recruit Bosh, Boozer, or Stoudemire. Again, maybe Riley would turn to Rondo once he got his big man. But he'd have little left to offer.

Even if Riley or Walsh was interested in Rondo above all other players, number 9 will be a restricted free agent and they won't pursue him until all the big UFAs are signed. With the Celtics no doubt claiming they'll match, no one will sign Rondo to an offer sheet and tie up their money for 7 days until the other marquee players are sorted out. Either team *could* still have money to spend at that point, but from their point of view, an UFA is a bird in hand and Rondo is two in a bush. Even if you sign him, you might not get.

I don't see the Heat and the Knicks sitting out of the big name feeding frenzy, hoarding $12M-max money, just to offer it to Rondo and maybe not even get him. (Plus, I hear the kid has attitude problems. It was for this weekend's negotiation, I assume, that Ainge ragged on Rondo all summer.) Either team could sign him to a sheet, but the chances that it will be much more expensive than what the Celtics are willing to pay right now seem very slim.

Of course, this is all just wild speculation. But it's speculation Ainge and Duffy are also engaged in right now. If I was Ainge, I would see nothing about next summer that would compel me to move much beyond $10M per for Mr. Rondo's services. Rondo can sign that deal now or he can sign it next summer. It's up to him.

He might be worth more, but there's no reason to pay more.

Nicely done.  Rondo's value is indirectly affected by the bevy of talented young point guards out there.  I think he's better than most of them, but the psychological effect of the influx of young guard talent into the league on GMs, including Ainge, is to rob Rondo's vast potential of its perceived scarcity and thus its value.  If the draft is churning out hotly anticipated prospects like Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Eric Gordon and now Ricky Rubio, Brandon Jennings and Jonny Flynn, and youngish PGs like Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams and Devin Harris are emerging as relatively cheap All-Stars, and you've still got the old guard of Nash, Kidd, Davis, Billups and Andre Miller hanging around, then GMs start to feel comfortable in low-balling their apparently not-so-precious commodity PG.
2025 Draft: Chicago Bulls

PG: Chauncey Billups
SG: Kobe Bryant
SF: Jimmy Butler
PF: Pau Gasol
C: Yao Ming

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2009, 04:59:36 PM »

Offline mgent

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i'm not sold on rondo being a top 5 point guard. only 5 players in the league can be in the top five, keep in mind
Williams, Paul, Arenas, Billups, and Rage.

I think he's definitely in the discussion along with Nash, Kidd, Parker, and Davis for that 5th spot.

When you consider we are talking about predicted performance the next five years, none of those names (other than Parker) in the latter group are in the discussion with Rondo.
Yeah but younger guys will be, especially Rose.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2009, 05:36:21 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Who has the money next year to offer Rondo what he is looking for?  He won't get what he is asking for next year on the open market especially when the cap falls.  Maybe that's why the C's want to wait it out, rather than offering up to the $60 mil if they can match in the summmer anyways if someone even offers that.

I think we're having this conversation in exactly the terms Rondo and Duffy would like us to use. "What's Rondo worth?"

But, on the other side of the negotiation, the Celtics and Ainge have to answer a slightly different question. "What do we have to pay to keep Rondo?" Players don't get paid what they're worth. They get paid what they can get. Scalabrine isn't worth his contract. Perkins is worth more than his.

So, if Rondo is asking for $12M per, Ainge has to figure if there's any way he could end up commanding that next summer. Even if Rondo leads the league in assists this year or we go to the Finals and he gets loads of national exposure, I don't think there is.

Using Marc Stein's 2010 numbers published the other day, there are seven teams that *could* have about $12M to give away. The Clippers, Bulls, Wolves, and Nets make no sense as Rondo destinations because they've got elite point guards or, in the case of the Wolves, 19 point guards.

That leaves NY, Miami, and OKC. The Thunder passed on Rubio because they thought it would tick off Westbrook and they think he's their solution at PG. So, if they do even decide to spend their money, I'm guessing that's going to a front court player.

Leaving the Knicks and the Heat. Both will have a ton of money. And Rondo would be a scary fit in D'Antoni's offense.

Assuming, James, Wade, and Bosh all stay put and it's the second tier of free agents that cash in on the available money, would either of those teams offer Rondo more than he's asking right now?

The Knicks will be under incredible pressure to get a ticket seller and a cornerstone. If they whiff on the class of '03, Walsh could sell Stoudemire or Boozer as that guy. I don't think he could sell Rondo as the Knickerbocker Jesus. Given all the hype, are Knicks fans going to be happy getting a franchise player who doesn't score? Especially given that there will only be six other guys under contract? Maybe Walsh would pursue Rondo *after* he's got a big ticket seller, but that means he'd be offering closer to $8M or $9M per.

Miami makes some sense because, assuming they keep Wade, they've already got their marquee guy. (Wade handles the ball so much, I'm not sure Rondo's a great basketball fit, but let's ignore that for now...) The rumors coming out of South Beach all focus on a marquee big man. (Maybe, for some reason, they don't want to put their entire front court hopes in the hands of Beasley.) I see the bulk of their money going to recruit Bosh, Boozer, or Stoudemire. Again, maybe Riley would turn to Rondo once he got his big man. But he'd have little left to offer.

Even if Riley or Walsh was interested in Rondo above all other players, number 9 will be a restricted free agent and they won't pursue him until all the big UFAs are signed. With the Celtics no doubt claiming they'll match, no one will sign Rondo to an offer sheet and tie up their money for 7 days until the other marquee players are sorted out. Either team *could* still have money to spend at that point, but from their point of view, an UFA is a bird in hand and Rondo is two in a bush. Even if you sign him, you might not get.

I don't see the Heat and the Knicks sitting out of the big name feeding frenzy, hoarding $12M-max money, just to offer it to Rondo and maybe not even get him. (Plus, I hear the kid has attitude problems. It was for this weekend's negotiation, I assume, that Ainge ragged on Rondo all summer.) Either team could sign him to a sheet, but the chances that it will be much more expensive than what the Celtics are willing to pay right now seem very slim.

Of course, this is all just wild speculation. But it's speculation Ainge and Duffy are also engaged in right now. If I was Ainge, I would see nothing about next summer that would compel me to move much beyond $10M per for Mr. Rondo's services. Rondo can sign that deal now or he can sign it next summer. It's up to him.

He might be worth more, but there's no reason to pay more.

  A couple of things: $12M per year doesn't necessarily start out at $12M, it starts out at $9M or $10M and works up over time. Also, while teams are going to wait until LeBron/Wade/Bosh sign, it's not like Rondo would be in a huge rush to sign on the first day. Kind of like players like Hedo and Andre Miller waited this year. Teams would also try and make the contract something the Celts don't want to match like frontloading it when the Celts are over the luxury tax. There's also the chance that Rondo pulls a Ben Gordon and goes unrestricted the following summer.

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2009, 06:03:33 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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He said that Rajon would be a Celtic for a very long time!  ;D ;D

He said more than a long time OP, he said something like "I honestly believe Rajon will be a Celtic for LIFE".

LIFE people!
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Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2009, 07:09:03 PM »

Offline moiso

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Paul, Williams, Nash, Billups, Rondo, Parker.  He's definitely top 6 and has more room for improvement than anyone on that list.  And I wouldn't put Arenas on that list until he shows that his team is better with him than without him.  He's similar to Iverson in my opinion.  Not a real point guard, and appearing at his best when he's on a bad team averaging over 20 shot attempts a game.

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2009, 07:44:44 PM »

Offline Silent Storm

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A Celtic for life and maybe after life too, given that his number will be retired.
You are no longer black, or brown, or yellow, or red! You are now GREEN, you are light GREEN, or dark GREEN!

Re: Did anyone hear Docs comments regarding Rajon....
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2009, 07:58:29 PM »

Offline Celtics17

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I hope that noone in the C's brass feels that Rondo is in the class of "bevy of point guards". This guy is special. I have said it here many times, by years end, Rondo will have a bigger impact on more games then any other C's player. Project his development and you have a guy who is in a class really with only CP3. Tomorrow's game with the Hornets will be a great opportunity for Rondo to show what he can do against Chris Paul.