If doc is a good coach why does he do this?

[Roy Hobbs]

But we are lacking depth there, and I don't trust JR for a full quarter even with a 25 pt lead right now.

There was no need to play Giddens at all, though.  Hudson/House could have been the backcourt.

[fairweatherfan]

P.S if anyone is watching NBATV they have ray on live and just asked him about this. He says he lobbied to stay in to start the fourth because he doesn't feel "in shape" yet, and wanted a few extra shots and to run a bit.

Well, mystery solved.  Ray's shot has been streaky so far and he wanted to work on his rhythm and conditioning a bit.  

[Eja117]

Ummmm because Pierce and Daniels were in early foul trouble, Scal, the backup 3 this year, is hurt, and, BTW unless you weren't paying attention during the fourth period, JR Giddens is pathetic against second team Bobcats, nevermind first team Bobcats.

What is he supposed to do, reward Giddens for playing horribly by making him the first 3 off the bench in the third quarter because the fans are worried that Ray has played too many minutes after JUST TWO GAMES!!

Come on. Get real. This isn't mid season. It's game freaking 2.

How will Giddens get better this year if he can't even get into games to relieve 33 year olds when they're up 20 points at home?

By playing in the D-League?  This is a championship team.  Giddens' development is not a priority.

Well yeah, but neither is beating the Bobcats by 40 points

And neither is sending a message to a young player that you don't have to follow defensive assignments or run through offensive plays correctly or box out or any of that. Go ahead. Don't listen to the coaching staff. Just run around out there like a 13 year old and we'll give you playing time and a million dollars a year. That's okay. You don't have to be held accountable for your play because we are winning.

Ok then. Put in Lester. Or someone not named Giddens. My understanding is that was a possibility

[RockinRyA]

P.S if anyone is watching NBATV they have ray on live and just asked him about this. He says he lobbied to stay in to start the fourth because he doesn't feel "in shape" yet, and wanted a few extra shots and to run a bit.

eja, i've put that i'd be more concerned if it was a trend in two posts now. That doesn't change the fact that after two wins, one of which it would be absurd to say ray played to long in, that a nitpicking thread went up.

I've learned to accept them over my time here. they make me giggle. Pretty sure we could beat a team 135-42 and if we had a day between games, a thread would go up calling out doc/ a player for some mistake they made.

well it seems to confirm my theory

[Eja117]

Before this completely turns into dueling strawmen, I agree that keeping Ray in was questionable at best - I don't know why any starter played at all in the 4th.  And I think we should've gone Quis/Pierce at the wing more and Ray/Quis less.  But we are lacking depth there, and I don't trust JR for a full quarter even with a 25 pt lead right now.

I gotta say if you can't trust someone with a 25 point lead you may have trust issues in life.

Also you don't need to trust him. There are 4 other guys. Trust them

I also don't trust the Bobcats to come back from 25 points on the road even more

[mgent]

Ummmm because Pierce and Daniels were in early foul trouble, Scal, the backup 3 this year, is hurt, and, BTW unless you weren't paying attention during the fourth period, JR Giddens is pathetic against second team Bobcats, nevermind first team Bobcats.

What is he supposed to do, reward Giddens for playing horribly by making him the first 3 off the bench in the third quarter because the fans are worried that Ray has played too many minutes after JUST TWO GAMES!!

Come on. Get real. This isn't mid season. It's game freaking 2.

How will Giddens get better this year if he can't even get into games to relieve 33 year olds when they're up 20 points at home?

By playing in the D-League?  This is a championship team.  Giddens' development is not a priority.

With Walker, Scal, and Tony out, we can't really put him in the D-League.  I'd rather see him in the game than on the bench (at least until we can fill up our active roster).  Although, this early in the season, I'd rather have Davis, Eddie, and Rasheed play more minutes and get a little more set in their roles (like Ray did).  And honestly, I'd rather see Lester get JR's time since he's likely ahead of him on the roster.

[crownsy]

Before this completely turns into dueling strawmen, I agree that keeping Ray in was questionable at best - I don't know why any starter played at all in the 4th.  And I think we should've gone Quis/Pierce at the wing more and Ray/Quis less.  But we are lacking depth there, and I don't trust JR for a full quarter even with a 25 pt lead right now.

I gotta say if you can't trust someone with a 25 point lead you may have trust issues in life.

Also you don't need to trust him. There are 4 other guys. Trust them

I also don't trust the Bobcats to come back from 25 points on the road even more

As i've said, both in the game thread and here, i would have preferred him gone at the end of the third, keeping his minutes at 35 or so.

However, given that ray just answered this question on NBATV and said he himself requested the run at the beginning of the fourth because he doesn't feel like he's fully in shape yet and wanted to shoot/ run a bit more, I'm even less concerned with it.

[Atzar]

Ummmm because Pierce and Daniels were in early foul trouble, Scal, the backup 3 this year, is hurt, and, BTW unless you weren't paying attention during the fourth period, JR Giddens is pathetic against second team Bobcats, nevermind first team Bobcats.

What is he supposed to do, reward Giddens for playing horribly by making him the first 3 off the bench in the third quarter because the fans are worried that Ray has played too many minutes after JUST TWO GAMES!!

Come on. Get real. This isn't mid season. It's game freaking 2.

How will Giddens get better this year if he can't even get into games to relieve 33 year olds when they're up 20 points at home?

By playing in the D-League?  This is a championship team.  Giddens' development is not a priority.

With Walker, Scal, and Tony out, we can't really put him in the D-League.  I'd rather see him in the game than on the bench (at least until we can fill up our active roster).  Although, this early in the season, I'd rather have Davis, Eddie, and Rasheed play more minutes and get a little more set in their roles (like Ray did).  And honestly, I'd rather see Lester get JR's time since he's likely ahead of him on the roster.

Well, the question was how JR will improve this year.  Walker, Scal and TA won't be injured forever.  As soon as they start to return, JR will take a trip north.

[MattG12]

P.S if anyone is watching NBATV they have ray on live and just asked him about this. He says he lobbied to stay in to start the fourth because he doesn't feel "in shape" yet, and wanted a few extra shots and to run a bit.

eja, i've put that i'd be more concerned if it was a trend in two posts now. That doesn't change the fact that after two wins, one of which it would be absurd to say ray played to long in, that a nitpicking thread went up.

I've learned to accept them over my time here. they make me giggle. Pretty sure we could beat a team 135-42 and if we had a day between games, a thread would go up calling out doc/ a player for some mistake they made.

TP Crownsey! As it was said before... Ray is a vet, if he needed to come out he would have asked to come out, and that wasn't the case Ray felt that he needed to stay in so he asked to stay in.

[Roy Hobbs]

In terms of whether this is a trend:

In '08-'09, Ray played 38+ minutes in 30 games (out of 79 played).  Ray admitted that by the end of the year, he was fatigued and injured.

In '07-'08, Ray played 38+ minutes in 33 games (out of 73 games).  Ray admitted that he had been playing in pain for the first half of the year.

I don't think anybody is calling for Doc's head, but come on:  this is an ongoing issue.  No matter what Ray's conditioning is, he's 34 years old.

[jackson_34]

The way Ray keeps himself in shape, I don't think a few extra minutes against a scrub team is going to do him much damage. A player like Shaq or KG is someone you worry about playing significant minutes in a back-to-back game, not Ray.

This is such an overreaction to an insignificant detail.

[guava_wrench]

Why coming off a game high 42 minutes last night, does doc still have Ray in the game in the 4th quarter up 26 with 10 min left?! It wasn't until Tommy Heinsohn made mention of the fact that Ray had logged the most minutes in the game and most of the bench players had only 10 minutes that doc took Ray out.

Ray plays the most minutes on the team each of the first two games (42, 38) on back to backs, especially when the latter is a blow-out?


Is there any possible, reasonable, logical explanation for this other than doc is asleep at the wheel?

While foul trouble obviously explains a lot for yesterday and the first half today (where even Giddens got minutes), to know more why so many minutes in the second half, I say ask Ray.

In the past, there have been many occasions where Ray asks Doc for more minutes to keep in shape. With no more morning shoot arounds, it could be that Ray has been requesting to stay in do get a flow.

[SquishPCfriar]

Its the second game of the season, lets not worry about it too much

[Eja117]

Before this completely turns into dueling strawmen, I agree that keeping Ray in was questionable at best - I don't know why any starter played at all in the 4th.  And I think we should've gone Quis/Pierce at the wing more and Ray/Quis less.  But we are lacking depth there, and I don't trust JR for a full quarter even with a 25 pt lead right now.

I gotta say if you can't trust someone with a 25 point lead you may have trust issues in life.

Also you don't need to trust him. There are 4 other guys. Trust them

I also don't trust the Bobcats to come back from 25 points on the road even more

As i've said, both in the game thread and here, i would have preferred him gone at the end of the third, keeping his minutes at 35 or so.

However, given that ray just answered this question on NBATV and said he himself requested the run at the beginning of the fourth because he doesn't feel like he's fully in shape yet and wanted to shoot/ run a bit more, I'm even less concerned with it.

Well I guess if he feels like he won't be able to get into shape later and needed the extra 5 minutes that he can only get in a game against the Bobcats up by 25 points then maybe Doc should just keep him in till he says "Now. Now coach. Now I'm in shape and you can take me out of blowouts late in games"

[nickagneta]

Before this completely turns into dueling strawmen, I agree that keeping Ray in was questionable at best - I don't know why any starter played at all in the 4th.  And I think we should've gone Quis/Pierce at the wing more and Ray/Quis less.  But we are lacking depth there, and I don't trust JR for a full quarter even with a 25 pt lead right now.

I gotta say if you can't trust someone with a 25 point lead you may have trust issues in life.

Also you don't need to trust him. There are 4 other guys. Trust them

I also don't trust the Bobcats to come back from 25 points on the road even more

As i've said, both in the game thread and here, i would have preferred him gone at the end of the third, keeping his minutes at 35 or so.

However, given that ray just answered this question on NBATV and said he himself requested the run at the beginning of the fourth because he doesn't feel like he's fully in shape yet and wanted to shoot/ run a bit more, I'm even less concerned with it.

My thoughts exactly.

First Doc has a problem managing minutes and then when stuff is explained it's Doc has trust issues.

That's really stretching things.