Is Shaq a problem in Cleveland?

[GKC]

I am on record as saying I think the problem in Minnesota is KG.

I think he limits a team to being as good as he is, whereas I think Tim Ducan helps a team become more than the sum of their parts.

However the entire basketball world wants to me to wear a dunce hat and sit in the corner on this one, so maybe I will. I'll be a genius sitting alone till KG wins a ring. Wake me up in 2013.

Fixed to reflect what similar minded people thought about KG previous to the 2007-2008 season. In both cases the argument is a poor one.

Absolutely agree. There's a difference between dominating for the sake of dominating, and dominating because you HAVE to. Adjusted +/- lineups show this. In fact, (for anyone whose read Mathletics you guys would know this, I might post the numbers when I get home), certain lineups during KG's MVP year had a 19 point differential when KG was out of that lineup over 48 minutes). You know how hard it is to find a player that is 19 points more effective?

Lebron has similar numbers (though not KG dominant...yet), but +/- numbers don't lie. Lebron makes players better. He gets players better shots, and sags defenses away from them. Why do you think Mo Williams and Delonte West have their shooting % go up when Lebron's in the game?

[kenmaine]

Yes he's a problem. A big, slow, injury-prone guy that's been over the hill for about five years. End of story.

[Eja117]

I am on record as saying I think the problem in Minnesota is KG.

I think he limits a team to being as good as he is, whereas I think Tim Ducan helps a team become more than the sum of their parts.

However the entire basketball world wants to me to wear a dunce hat and sit in the corner on this one, so maybe I will. I'll be a genius sitting alone till KG wins a ring. Wake me up in 2013.

Fixed to reflect what similar minded people thought about KG previous to the 2007-2008 season. In both cases the argument is a poor one.

Tim Duncan absolutely showed he was a better player in their hey days.

But did KG do stupid things like go out and get 11 assists while having an all-star point guard and getting outrebounded by the other forward?

He didn't, did he?

Exactly.

Maybe Shaq can work really hard on 3 pointers and ball handling at the expense of his inside game and then they can bench Anthony Parker or D West more often to give different looks to the defense.

Plus KG was playing against a better power forward in the Duncan/KG days.  When has Lebron played against someone "better" than him in a big game?

Also KG's GM made a stupid mistake that cost the team 3 first rounders and used the one they were given back on Ndudi Ebi.  I don't see any similar excuse for Bron

[Fafnir]

Just because you don't like all the ball handling he does, doesn't make it ineffective. Nor does LeBron have a great surrounding cast in my opinion, he has a bunch of role players.

Can you imagine Ray Allen or Pierce on the Cavs? *shudder*

[Eja117]

Just because you don't like all the ball handling he does, doesn't make it ineffective. Nor does LeBron have a great surrounding cast in my opinion, he has a bunch of role players.

Can you imagine Ray Allen or Pierce on the Cavs? *shudder*

Pierce with Shaq? I kinda think that would be awesome. I don't think anyone would want to drive on that and the Cavs would win every rebound.

I don't think Ray would be incompatible with Shaq. I think Shaq would enjoy someone stretching the floor for him.

I don't think Duncan had a great surrounding cast at any point.

I don't think Hakeem had one either. He had an old Drexler for his 2nd ring.

[Eja117]

Just because you don't like all the ball handling he does, doesn't make it ineffective. Nor does LeBron have a great surrounding cast in my opinion, he has a bunch of role players.

Can you imagine Ray Allen or Pierce on the Cavs? *shudder*

It was pretty ineffective last night and every other playoffs he's ever been in

[Donoghus]

But did KG do stupid things like go out and get 11 assists while having an all-star point guard and getting outrebounded by the other forward?

What exactly is stupid about going out and getting 11 assists?  The fact that his PG was an all-star should be irrelevant.  If a strength in Lebron's game is passing, then he should make the most of it when he can.  Were people knocking Larry Bird for double digit assist games when he had Tiny or DJ playing with him?  Of course not.  Passing was a strength in Larry's game and he made the most of it.

Just because you have a guy who has been an all-star PG playing with you doesn't mean you should neglect that aspect of the game.  After watching how Mo Williams was playing for most of the game last night, I have no fault with Lebron trying to step it up as a playmaker.

[Mr October]

TP, Chris. Good points.

The bigman trio of shaq, verejao and Z are a slow group. A quick perimeter 4 would help them a lot. Shaq is still a major load on offense. I'd take him on the C's in a heartbeat if we didn't have to consider salaries or the longevity of the season. 

The bottom line for Cleveland is that the talent around Lebron is still very mediocre - a lottery group if Lebron goes down with an injury.

The other thing the team needs is an outright stud on the perimeter - a star PG or SG. Mo Williams is too streaky.

[Eja117]

But did KG do stupid things like go out and get 11 assists while having an all-star point guard and getting outrebounded by the other forward?

What exactly is stupid about going out and getting 11 assists?  The fact that his PG was an all-star should be irrelevant.  If a strength in Lebron's game is passing, then he should make the most of it when he can.  Were people knocking Larry Bird for double digit assist games when he had Tiny or DJ playing with him?  Of course not.  Passing was a strength in Larry's game and he made the most of it.

Just because you have a guy who has been an all-star PG playing with you doesn't mean you should neglect that aspect of the game.  After watching how Mo Williams was playing for most of the game last night, I have no fault with Lebron trying to step it up as a playmaker.

When you're almost as big as a power forward maybe you should go down low and dominate a much smaller player on a mismatch, both offensively and defensively. Not go out and dance and try to run an offense.

We were just talking about who the best passing big men were last week. That doesn't mean they tried to turn themselves into point guards.

If he thinks he's Magic then maybe he should play point like he did. But if he's a forward then go win the rebound battle against the smaller guy and maybe stop him from scoring 20+ while you're at it.  Especially if you're older center is having a hard time with Perk and your power forward is going against KG.

What's so hard about that?

[Fafnir]

Just because you don't like all the ball handling he does, doesn't make it ineffective. Nor does LeBron have a great surrounding cast in my opinion, he has a bunch of role players.

Can you imagine Ray Allen or Pierce on the Cavs? *shudder*

It was pretty ineffective last night and every other playoffs he's ever been in

Really I seem to recall it taking the C's to 7 games in by far the closest series of the post season in 2007-2008. The year before it took his Cavaliers to the Finals, that team started Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden!

Hate all you want, but LeBron is the best player in the NBA by a large margin.

If he had a teammate of Ray or Pierce's caliber and skillset I really think he'd have a ring.

[crownsy]

Just because you don't like all the ball handling he does, doesn't make it ineffective. Nor does LeBron have a great surrounding cast in my opinion, he has a bunch of role players.

Can you imagine Ray Allen or Pierce on the Cavs? *shudder*

It was pretty ineffective last night and every other playoffs he's ever been in

He's taking a team to the finals, missed another ECF only by virtue of one of the best game seven performances by a Celtics player, and been to the ECF and been huge in multiply playoff games in five years in the league...how has he been ineffective?

[GKC]

Just because you don't like all the ball handling he does, doesn't make it ineffective. Nor does LeBron have a great surrounding cast in my opinion, he has a bunch of role players.

Can you imagine Ray Allen or Pierce on the Cavs? *shudder*

Pierce with Shaq? I kinda think that would be awesome. I don't think anyone would want to drive on that and the Cavs would win every rebound.

I don't think Ray would be incompatible with Shaq. I think Shaq would enjoy someone stretching the floor for him.

I don't think Duncan had a great surrounding cast at any point.

I don't think Hakeem had one either. He had an old Drexler for his 2nd ring.

Tim Duncan did not have a great surrounding cast at any point? Manu, Parker, Bowen, Robinson, Stephen Jackson (before he was crazy), Horry (same for Hakeem) disagree

I agree Hakeem had a worse supporting cast, but they were servicable. Kenny and Steve made their shots. Horry helped too.

[fairweatherfan]

Just because you don't like all the ball handling he does, doesn't make it ineffective. Nor does LeBron have a great surrounding cast in my opinion, he has a bunch of role players.

Can you imagine Ray Allen or Pierce on the Cavs? *shudder*

It was pretty ineffective last night and every other playoffs he's ever been in

LeBron has won more playoff series in his first 6 years than the Big 3 combined, or Jordan, did.  If that's ineffective, what is effective?  Bill Russell and no one else?

[Fafnir]

But did KG do stupid things like go out and get 11 assists while having an all-star point guard and getting outrebounded by the other forward?

What exactly is stupid about going out and getting 11 assists?  The fact that his PG was an all-star should be irrelevant.  If a strength in Lebron's game is passing, then he should make the most of it when he can.  Were people knocking Larry Bird for double digit assist games when he had Tiny or DJ playing with him?  Of course not.  Passing was a strength in Larry's game and he made the most of it.

Just because you have a guy who has been an all-star PG playing with you doesn't mean you should neglect that aspect of the game.  After watching how Mo Williams was playing for most of the game last night, I have no fault with Lebron trying to step it up as a playmaker.

When you're almost as big as a power forward maybe you should go down low and dominate a much smaller player on a mismatch, both offensively and defensively. Not go out and dance and try to run an offense.

We were just talking about who the best passing big men were last week. That doesn't mean they tried to turn themselves into point guards.

If he thinks he's Magic then maybe he should play point like he did. But if he's a forward then go win the rebound battle against the smaller guy and maybe stop him from scoring 20+ while you're at it.  Especially if you're older center is having a hard time with Perk and your power forward is going against KG.

What's so hard about that?

Again insert KG into the same argument, people have been making it for years. KG needs to get down low and dominate, he's a 7 footer, he's a PF, etc.

I agree that adding a post game would make LeBron completely unguardable, but he hasn't done that yet. I'm certain he will as he gets older and his athleticism declines.

[GKC]

Just because you don't like all the ball handling he does, doesn't make it ineffective. Nor does LeBron have a great surrounding cast in my opinion, he has a bunch of role players.

Can you imagine Ray Allen or Pierce on the Cavs? *shudder*

It was pretty ineffective last night and every other playoffs he's ever been in

He's taking a team to the finals and the ECF and been huge in multiply playoff games...how has he been ineffective?

I agree. If not winning a championship means not effective, then I guess we can mark down most the hall-of-fame.