Positives and Negatives

[BudweiserCeltic]

Without getting into everything, I definitely disagree with this:

Would've liked to see Giddens for a bit just to see how he handles LeBron. It would've been a good test for him, and a good opportunity for Doc to get a better measure of his defensive capabilities.

Giddens didn't look great against scrubs in the pre-season.  We don't need him cutting his teeth in an important, close regular season game.

From the games I managed to watch, he looked good defensively... which is what I'm interesting in seeing with real talent on the floor. Not saying that he should've been inserted in last night's game, simply voicing that I would've liked to see him play... not calling out Doc or anything.

Let's not turn this into a Giddens thing, I just threw it in there as an aside of someone who I would've liked to see.

[RAcker]

I love posts like this.  Rational thinking or not, you get a good pulse of the Celtics Nation by reading through here.

[nickagneta]

Couldn't disagree more with a couple of comments in the OP.

1.) Giddens at this point is a game winning cigar who has never proven in any game(preseason, summer league or regular) that he belongs on the court in any other time other than garbage time. This was a fairly tight game that could have gone either way, it is ridiculous to think that he belonged in any portion of last night's game. At any point whatsoever. Re-watched the game on DVR while working in the office this AM and there is not one single 10 second span in that game where I can honestly say, "Gee maybe Doc should stick a scrub in to see how he does."

2.) Rondo was having a bit of a problem keeping Mo Williams in front of him? Were we watching the same game? Rondo, I think, might have purposely let Williams by him once all night. He fought through a lot of picks and those he couldn't he went below the pick and picked Mo up on the other side. Rondo played a very good defensive game last night.

3.) Complaining about long minutes on opening night against the Cavs on the road in a winnable game in an arena you have won in in three or four years for a chance for a leg up on HCA against your biggest rival is kind of nitpicking to the Nth degree, IMO. So what, Ray played 42 and Pierce 38. Big deal. It's the first game of the season in Cleveland to win.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Couldn't disagree more with a couple of comments in the OP.

1.) Giddens at this point is a game winning cigar who has never proven in any game(preseason, summer league or regular) that he belongs on the court in any other time other than garbage time. This was a fairly tight game that could have gone either way, it is ridiculous to think that he belonged in any portion of last night's game. At any point whatsoever. Re-watched the game on DVR while working in the office this AM and there is not one single 10 second span in that game where I can honestly say, "Gee maybe Doc should stick a scrub in to see how he does."

Not even going to comment since I've replied about this about 3 times already in the thread clarifying what I meant when I mentioned it.

2.) Rondo was having a bit of a problem keeping Mo Williams in front of him? Were we watching the same game? Rondo, I think, might have purposely let Williams by him once all night. He fought through a lot of picks and those he couldn't he went below the pick and picked Mo up on the other side. Rondo played a very good defensive game last night.

Completely disagree here, I might ask you the same... were you watching the same game?

3.) Complaining about long minutes on opening night against the Cavs on the road in a winnable game in an arena you have won in in three or four years for a chance for a leg up on HCA against your biggest rival is kind of nitpicking to the Nth degree, IMO. So what, Ray played 42 and Pierce 38. Big deal. It's the first game of the season in Cleveland to win.

I have to ask, did you read what I wrote? How can you interpret what I said as me complaining about their minutes? I merely said that it was worth mentioning that's all.

[celts55]

In all honesty, I got a bit distracted during the game so I might've missed a few things.

Overall, I didn't like our defensive effort. I think we got a bit lucky that Cleveland's offense was a bit disorganized. But Cleveland was a bit lucky themselves with LeBron really making shots. For the most part we kept him from getting to the hoop. I thought we did a poor job of putting bodies between himself and basket though... often with just one defender inbetween. Luckily he didn't take advantage of this throughout the game, but he did start penetrating towards the end of the game. Rondo was having a bit of trouble keeping up with Mo too. Our defensive communitcation has to get better... saw quite a few miscommunications between Rondo, Pierce, KG, Perk, and Williams a different points in the game, but that's expected at this stage of the season.

Penetration, where was our penetration? This is a huge disappointment for me since with the addition of Wallace I really thought Rondo, Pierce, and Daniels would really take advantage of the situation and penetrate like crazy. Is this a play calling problem? A spacing problem? A willfullness of the player problem?

Three-point shooting, we took quite a bit of 3-pointers, and we made them. Really liked them. I can see our team falling in love with it (which in part was what gave Cleveland an opportunity to come back), but overall I really like the 3-point shooting in this team. It should eventually lead to the increase penetration I'm looking for.

Bench, really liked our bench. They put a good defensive effort, and can surely score the ball when needed. Little to complain about it at the moment.

KG, liked what I saw. Clearly not fully ready yet. But if he's at 60%, I can't wait to see him when he gets 40% more healthy.

Fastbreak scoring... I think we need to do a better job on passing the ball in a timely manner for those transition 3s. Ray Allen was missed quite a few times to get a rhythm 3. Also, man we need to do a better job drawing a foul instead of showing the ball to get blocked.

Pierce looked fairly quick with the ball, having decent success blowing by his defender when he decided to do so. He did the same last year during this time of the year, and by the end of the season he wasn't having the same type of success, as far as speed was concerned. Let's see if he can keep up with the speed this time.

Even though Ray missed a few money shots, I think he should've made. But overall I thought his shot and form looked good, so going forward the shots should start going in.Perkins overall was quiet... and scored a quiet 9 points. Needs to be more active in the rebound department. Don't remember his turnovers so I can't comment, but 3 seems high for him in 26 minutes.

Shelden Williams put in a solid effort, played his role well overall... had some missed opportunities, but he made his free-throws.

Ray 42 minutes, Pierce 38, Daniels 18 minutes. First game, so I don't care, but it's worth mentioning to see if the pattern continues which I highly doubt. No Scal also, first game against Cleveland so understandable. Still, worth mentioning considering what went on last year.

Rasheed Wallace, really liked him even though he had a quick trigger at times. Good defensive effort.

Would've liked to see Giddens for a bit just to see how he handles LeBron. It would've been a good test for him, and a good opportunity for Doc to get a better measure of his defensive capabilities.

Eddie House seemed to be rushing his shots a bit. He was money during preseason, so let's hope he can regain that. Same thing happened last year. He's controling the ball more than I would like. Keep the ball in Daniels hands... isn't that supposed to be the plan?

Overall, I thought we played a poor game... we can certainly do much better, yet we came out on top. Scary.

Daniels > Moon.

Why is it that people don't seem to be critical when talking about Ray Allen. Just to be clear Ray has long and I mean long, been one of my favorite players in the league. But why do you give in depth analysis of the other players and the bench yet only say that even though he missed some bunnies his form looked good. I'm sorry but to be honest, I thought he had a terrible game. Not only did he miss a bunch of wide open jumpers (which is really what he gets paid to do) he was a turnover waiting to happen. I almost thought he was playing for the Cavs as many times as he threw the ball to one of them. He doesn't really rebound (not that that's expected) but only had something like 2 assists. Considering the amount of time he played and handled the ball, thats not very impressive. Lastly I don't think anyone can say he's one of the better defenders on the court.

Now, I will say that I'm sure Ray will have some games where he will light it up. I'm sure there will be some game winner before the season is over. But last night, he did not play well. To be honest I think Ray is getting to the point in his career, not unlike Wallace, where he might be better suited to coming off the bench for limited minutes.

 

[GKC]

I thought Rondo did a great job on Mo. Mo was forced to be a jump shooter, and it's why he seemed to take 3s because Rondo stopped his penetration.

Mo has to be worried about not being able to stop Rondo. Rondo (especially in his pick and roll with KG) was pretty powerful.

---

The one facet I thought you should have mentioned in the positives was how Brown was forced to use the double big lineup. Varejao cannot stop KG, and with Perk and KG in, it nullifies his offensive rebounding. They were forced to put the double big lineup, and although I thought Z did a good job on KG a couple times, Shaq didn't. KG had the high banker off shaq, or Shaq would get killed off the PNR.

I think Shaq, though it may improve the Cavs in some facets, actually makes it easier for the C's to match up against them.

[slamtheking]

Why is it that people don't seem to be critical when talking about Ray Allen. Just to be clear Ray has long and I mean long, been one of my favorite players in the league. But why do you give in depth analysis of the other players and the bench yet only say that even though he missed some bunnies his form looked good. I'm sorry but to be honest, I thought he had a terrible game. Not only did he miss a bunch of wide open jumpers (which is really what he gets paid to do) he was a turnover waiting to happen. I almost thought he was playing for the Cavs as many times as he threw the ball to one of them. He doesn't really rebound (not that that's expected) but only had something like 2 assists. Considering the amount of time he played and handled the ball, thats not very impressive. Lastly I don't think anyone can say he's one of the better defenders on the court.

Now, I will say that I'm sure Ray will have some games where he will light it up. I'm sure there will be some game winner before the season is over. But last night, he did not play well. To be honest I think Ray is getting to the point in his career, not unlike Wallace, where he might be better suited to coming off the bench for limited minutes.

I second your opinion on this (for what that's worth).  Ray did not have a good game at all.  Definitely showed he should try to be a playmaker but should only be handling the ball to get himself a shot.  That turnover at halfcourt in the last couple of minutes was inexcusable.  The block on him by Lebron--boneheaded.  He saw Bron do it to Rondo when he exposed the ball too early so what does Ray do?-->expose the ball too early.

I hope Ray gets it together sooner rather than later.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Why is it that people don't seem to be critical when talking about Ray Allen.

We know what he is.

Just to be clear Ray has long and I mean long, been one of my favorite players in the league. But why do you give in depth analysis of the other players and the bench yet only say that even though he missed some bunnies his form looked good.

Yeah? I did an in-depth analysis of others? I don't see it.

I'm sorry but to be honest, I thought he had a terrible game. Not only did he miss a bunch of wide open jumpers (which is really what he gets paid to do) he was a turnover waiting to happen.

Which I don't deny, in fact I make mention of it. But I think his form is more telling on where he is. In his first year with us, early in the season he was having a ton of success with his shot, yet I kept mentioning that his form was off... as it turns out through the rest of the season he wasn't so hot. So that's what I chose to  talk about. But again, I didn't do any in-depth analysis about anyone, but that aspect of Ray I thought it was worth mentioning.

As for turnovers... well he had 3 in 42 minutes. Not bad at all as far as I'm concerned, and he handled the ball quite a bit throughout the game, particularly with the 2nd unit.

He doesn't really rebound (not that that's expected) but only had something like 2 assists. Considering the amount of time he played and handled the ball, thats not very impressive. Lastly I don't think anyone can say he's one of the better defenders on the court.

Could care less how many rebounds or assists he has... As for his defense, he's clearly has some limitations. Can't really comment much on how he did defensively because I really didn't notice much, and that usually is a good thing, surely I could've missed something. But overall other than James, no one playing SG-SF seemed to have a good game, so I don't think he could've been that bad defensively. I could be wrong of course as I said.

Now, I will say that I'm sure Ray will have some games where he will light it up. I'm sure there will be some game winner before the season is over. But last night, he did not play well.

I forgot where anyone has said that he played well.

[nickagneta]

Couldn't disagree more with a couple of comments in the OP.

1.) Giddens at this point is a game winning cigar who has never proven in any game(preseason, summer league or regular) that he belongs on the court in any other time other than garbage time. This was a fairly tight game that could have gone either way, it is ridiculous to think that he belonged in any portion of last night's game. At any point whatsoever. Re-watched the game on DVR while working in the office this AM and there is not one single 10 second span in that game where I can honestly say, "Gee maybe Doc should stick a scrub in to see how he does."

Not even going to comment since I've replied about this about 3 times already in the thread clarifying what I meant when I mentioned it.

Well, humor me and clarify it again because from what I read you said you didn't watch the game

Didn't watch the game. Good to know. Who were on the floor with him though? That's just as important, particularly the bigs. Of course, not complaining for not playing him, just saying that I would've liked to see it.

or you did and just wanted to stick in a complete scrub in a tight game for the hell of it at possibly the expense of winning the game.

From the games I managed to watch, he looked good defensively... which is what I'm interesting in seeing with real talent on the floor. Not saying that he should've been inserted in last night's game, simply voicing that I would've liked to see him play... not calling out Doc or anything.

2.) Rondo was having a bit of a problem keeping Mo Williams in front of him? Were we watching the same game? Rondo, I think, might have purposely let Williams by him once all night. He fought through a lot of picks and those he couldn't he went below the pick and picked Mo up on the other side. Rondo played a very good defensive game last night.

Completely disagree here, I might ask you the same... were you watching the same game?

Well, from reading through the blog today, I would have to say that your opinion is in the vast minority when it comes to how well Rondo played Mo Williams defensively and leave it at that.

3.) Complaining about long minutes on opening night against the Cavs on the road in a winnable game in an arena you have won in in three or four years for a chance for a leg up on HCA against your biggest rival is kind of nitpicking to the Nth degree, IMO. So what, Ray played 42 and Pierce 38. Big deal. It's the first game of the season in Cleveland to win.

I have to ask, did you read what I wrote? How can you interpret what I said as me complaining about their minutes? I merely said that it was worth mentioning that's all.

But if you highly doubt the pattern is going to continue and you understand the reasoning behind the minutes, then it really IS NOT worth mentioning and so by doing it you are really complaining about it. It's like saying, "Well Davis was unavailable to play because he got into a fight and broke his hand. I know he didn't do it on purpose but I thought it worth mentioning he wasn't here tonight because of that injury." Of course that's a complaint. It's called being passive aggressive.

[slamtheking]

Couldn't disagree more with a couple of comments in the OP.

1.) Giddens at this point is a game winning cigar who has never proven in any game(preseason, summer league or regular) that he belongs on the court in any other time other than garbage time. This was a fairly tight game that could have gone either way, it is ridiculous to think that he belonged in any portion of last night's game. At any point whatsoever. Re-watched the game on DVR while working in the office this AM and there is not one single 10 second span in that game where I can honestly say, "Gee maybe Doc should stick a scrub in to see how he does."

Not even going to comment since I've replied about this about 3 times already in the thread clarifying what I meant when I mentioned it.

2.) Rondo was having a bit of a problem keeping Mo Williams in front of him? Were we watching the same game? Rondo, I think, might have purposely let Williams by him once all night. He fought through a lot of picks and those he couldn't he went below the pick and picked Mo up on the other side. Rondo played a very good defensive game last night.

Completely disagree here, I might ask you the same... were you watching the same game?[/b]

3.) Complaining about long minutes on opening night against the Cavs on the road in a winnable game in an arena you have won in in three or four years for a chance for a leg up on HCA against your biggest rival is kind of nitpicking to the Nth degree, IMO. So what, Ray played 42 and Pierce 38. Big deal. It's the first game of the season in Cleveland to win.

I have to ask, did you read what I wrote? How can you interpret what I said as me complaining about their minutes? I merely said that it was worth mentioning that's all.

Count me in with Nick on Rondo's defense.  Looked much better than last year.  Kept his man in front of him for the most part.  

[celts55]

Why is it that people don't seem to be critical when talking about Ray Allen.

We know what he is.

Just to be clear Ray has long and I mean long, been one of my favorite players in the league. But why do you give in depth analysis of the other players and the bench yet only say that even though he missed some bunnies his form looked good.

Yeah? I did an in-depth analysis of others? I don't see it.

I'm sorry but to be honest, I thought he had a terrible game. Not only did he miss a bunch of wide open jumpers (which is really what he gets paid to do) he was a turnover waiting to happen.

Which I don't deny, in fact I make mention of it. But I think his form is more telling on where he is. In his first year with us, early in the season he was having a ton of success with his shot, yet I kept mentioning that his form was off... as it turns out through the rest of the season he wasn't so hot. So that's what I chose to  talk about. But again, I didn't do any in-depth analysis about anyone, but that aspect of Ray I thought it was worth mentioning.

As for turnovers... well he had 3 in 42 minutes. Not bad at all as far as I'm concerned, and he handled the ball quite a bit throughout the game, particularly with the 2nd unit.

He doesn't really rebound (not that that's expected) but only had something like 2 assists. Considering the amount of time he played and handled the ball, thats not very impressive. Lastly I don't think anyone can say he's one of the better defenders on the court.

Could care less how many rebounds or assists he has... As for his defense, he's clearly has some limitations. Can't really comment much on how he did defensively because I really didn't notice much, and that usually is a good thing, surely I could've missed something. But overall other than James, no one playing SG-SF seemed to have a good game, so I don't think he could've been that bad defensively. I could be wrong of course as I said.

Now, I will say that I'm sure Ray will have some games where he will light it up. I'm sure there will be some game winner before the season is over. But last night, he did not play well.

I forgot where anyone has said that he played well.

Sorry, apparently what I wrote seemed like an attack on your post, which I did not maen at all. In general I thought it was very well written. It's probably me but it just seems like Ray is getting a free ride because he is such a classy guy. For some reason I have read people claiming KG was dogging it last year when he was injuried and didn't play in the playoff. I have read more than a few posts in the past about Paul Pierce's behavior, etc. Yet for some reason people choice not to want to criticize Ray's game. That's all I meant.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Couldn't disagree more with a couple of comments in the OP.

1.) Giddens at this point is a game winning cigar who has never proven in any game(preseason, summer league or regular) that he belongs on the court in any other time other than garbage time. This was a fairly tight game that could have gone either way, it is ridiculous to think that he belonged in any portion of last night's game. At any point whatsoever. Re-watched the game on DVR while working in the office this AM and there is not one single 10 second span in that game where I can honestly say, "Gee maybe Doc should stick a scrub in to see how he does."

Not even going to comment since I've replied about this about 3 times already in the thread clarifying what I meant when I mentioned it.

Well, humor me and clarify it again because from what I read you said you didn't watch the game

Didn't watch the game. Good to know. Who were on the floor with him though? That's just as important, particularly the bigs. Of course, not complaining for not playing him, just saying that I would've liked to see it.

or you did and just wanted to stick in a complete scrub in a tight game for the hell of it at possibly the expense of winning the game.

The game I didn't watch was the preseason game.

This quote that you posted yourself is pretty much self-explanatory of what I meant. That I would've liked to see Giddens play, that's all. Do I fault Doc or anyone for him not playing? No. Would I think it was prudent to play him in the game particularly on how the game develop? No. Yet, I would've liked to have seen him play, I really don't understand the issue here.

From the games I managed to watch, he looked good defensively... which is what I'm interesting in seeing with real talent on the floor. Not saying that he should've been inserted in last night's game, simply voicing that I would've liked to see him play... not calling out Doc or anything.

2.) Rondo was having a bit of a problem keeping Mo Williams in front of him? Were we watching the same game? Rondo, I think, might have purposely let Williams by him once all night. He fought through a lot of picks and those he couldn't he went below the pick and picked Mo up on the other side. Rondo played a very good defensive game last night.

Completely disagree here, I might ask you the same... were you watching the same game?

Well, from reading through the blog today, I would have to say that your opinion is in the vast minority when it comes to how well Rondo played Mo Williams defensively and leave it at that.

I'm fine with being in the minority, I'm usually am. Many, not saying that you are, simply look at his stat of 3-8 and just say "Wow how great Rondo was" and leave it at that. Overall did he look better than most of the times out there? I'd agree to that, but even in possessions that lead to nothing, I wasn't happy with how Mo was moving around the floor with Rondo on the ball. Mo simply looked quick to me with the ball, and got around Rondo quite a few times with ease.

I'll admit to this though, the majority of this came earlier in the game. Maybe Rondo did clean up his defensive effort later in the game and I simply didn't notice. But as always, you get some plays that standout to you and make an impression.

3.) Complaining about long minutes on opening night against the Cavs on the road in a winnable game in an arena you have won in in three or four years for a chance for a leg up on HCA against your biggest rival is kind of nitpicking to the Nth degree, IMO. So what, Ray played 42 and Pierce 38. Big deal. It's the first game of the season in Cleveland to win.

I have to ask, did you read what I wrote? How can you interpret what I said as me complaining about their minutes? I merely said that it was worth mentioning that's all.

But if you highly doubt the pattern is going to continue and you understand the reasoning behind the minutes, then it really IS NOT worth mentioning and so by doing it you are really complaining about it. It's like saying, "Well Davis was unavailable to play because he got into a fight and broke his hand. I know he didn't do it on purpose but I thought it worth mentioning he wasn't here tonight because of that injury." Of course that's a complaint. It's called being passive aggressive.

It really is not the same thing. But what can I say, you can interpret it as you want I guess. Seriously, one complain about Doc and suddenly it's seen as me having a vendetta against Doc, when for the most part I have been historically one of his biggest supporters. Last year's circumstances made it worth mentioning as I said. In a vacuum well, no, but we're not in a vacuum.

Want me to complain? Sure, let's complain. Ray Allen was having a bad game, why the heck did Doc play him 42 minutes under those circumstances? Pierce was having a better game overall, and he was needed more than Ray to guard LeBron... why just not play him more? Daniels was having a decent game, yet he only played 18 when he could've easily played quite a few more.

Now that is a complaint. What I did before, was not a complaint... was merely stating some facts that are worth noting as we go forward in the season, even though I don't envision it being a problem. As I said, I don't care that Ray and Pierce played as much as they did last night.

Sorry, apparently what I wrote seemed like an attack on your post, which I did not maen at all. In general I thought it was very well written. It's probably me but it just seems like Ray is getting a free ride because he is such a classy guy. For some reason I have read people claiming KG was dogging it last year when he was injuried and didn't play in the playoff. I have read more than a few posts in the past about Paul Pierce's behavior, etc. Yet for some reason people choice not to want to criticize Ray's game. That's all I meant.

I guess you're never around when all the "Trade Ray" threads start popping up lol. Na', I think in general Ray gets a harsher criticism than he usually deserves in my opinion.

[celts55]

Couldn't disagree more with a couple of comments in the OP.

1.) Giddens at this point is a game winning cigar who has never proven in any game(preseason, summer league or regular) that he belongs on the court in any other time other than garbage time. This was a fairly tight game that could have gone either way, it is ridiculous to think that he belonged in any portion of last night's game. At any point whatsoever. Re-watched the game on DVR while working in the office this AM and there is not one single 10 second span in that game where I can honestly say, "Gee maybe Doc should stick a scrub in to see how he does."

Not even going to comment since I've replied about this about 3 times already in the thread clarifying what I meant when I mentioned it.

Well, humor me and clarify it again because from what I read you said you didn't watch the game

Didn't watch the game. Good to know. Who were on the floor with him though? That's just as important, particularly the bigs. Of course, not complaining for not playing him, just saying that I would've liked to see it.

or you did and just wanted to stick in a complete scrub in a tight game for the hell of it at possibly the expense of winning the game.

The game I didn't watch was the preseason game.

This quote that you posted yourself is pretty much self-explanatory of what I meant. That I would've liked to see Giddens play, that's all. Do I fault Doc or anyone for him not playing? No. Would I think it was prudent to play him in the game particularly on how the game develop? No. Yet, I would've liked to have seen him play, I really don't understand the issue here.

From the games I managed to watch, he looked good defensively... which is what I'm interesting in seeing with real talent on the floor. Not saying that he should've been inserted in last night's game, simply voicing that I would've liked to see him play... not calling out Doc or anything.

2.) Rondo was having a bit of a problem keeping Mo Williams in front of him? Were we watching the same game? Rondo, I think, might have purposely let Williams by him once all night. He fought through a lot of picks and those he couldn't he went below the pick and picked Mo up on the other side. Rondo played a very good defensive game last night.

Completely disagree here, I might ask you the same... were you watching the same game?

Well, from reading through the blog today, I would have to say that your opinion is in the vast minority when it comes to how well Rondo played Mo Williams defensively and leave it at that.

I'm fine with being in the minority, I'm usually am. Many, not saying that you are, simply look at his stat of 3-8 and just say "Wow how great Rondo was" and leave it at that. Overall did he look better than most of the times out there? I'd agree to that, but even in possessions that lead to nothing, I wasn't happy with how Mo was moving around the floor with Rondo on the ball. Mo simply looked quick to me with the ball, and got around Rondo quite a few times with ease.

I'll admit to this though, the majority of this came earlier in the game. Maybe Rondo did clean up his defensive effort later in the game and I simply didn't notice. But as always, you get some plays that standout to you and make an impression.

3.) Complaining about long minutes on opening night against the Cavs on the road in a winnable game in an arena you have won in in three or four years for a chance for a leg up on HCA against your biggest rival is kind of nitpicking to the Nth degree, IMO. So what, Ray played 42 and Pierce 38. Big deal. It's the first game of the season in Cleveland to win.

I have to ask, did you read what I wrote? How can you interpret what I said as me complaining about their minutes? I merely said that it was worth mentioning that's all.

But if you highly doubt the pattern is going to continue and you understand the reasoning behind the minutes, then it really IS NOT worth mentioning and so by doing it you are really complaining about it. It's like saying, "Well Davis was unavailable to play because he got into a fight and broke his hand. I know he didn't do it on purpose but I thought it worth mentioning he wasn't here tonight because of that injury." Of course that's a complaint. It's called being passive aggressive.

It really is not the same thing. But what can I say, you can interpret it as you want I guess. Seriously, one complain about Doc and suddenly it's seen as me having a vendetta against Doc, when for the most part I have been historically one of his biggest supporters. Last year's circumstances made it worth mentioning as I said. In a vacuum well, no, but we're not in a vacuum.

Want me to complain? Sure, let's complain. Ray Allen was having a bad game, why the heck did Doc play him 42 minutes under those circumstances? Pierce was having a better game overall, and he was needed more than Ray to guard LeBron... why just not play him more? Daniels was having a decent game, yet he only played 18 when he could've easily played quite a few more.

Now that is a complaint. What I did before, was not a complaint... was merely stating some facts that are worth noting as we go forward in the season, even though I don't envision it being a problem. As I said, I don't care that Ray and Pierce played as much as they did last night.

Sorry, apparently what I wrote seemed like an attack on your post, which I did not maen at all. In general I thought it was very well written. It's probably me but it just seems like Ray is getting a free ride because he is such a classy guy. For some reason I have read people claiming KG was dogging it last year when he was injuried and didn't play in the playoff. I have read more than a few posts in the past about Paul Pierce's behavior, etc. Yet for some reason people choice not to want to criticize Ray's game. That's all I meant.

I guess you're never around when all the "Trade Ray" threads start popping up lol. Na', I think in general Ray gets a harsher criticism than he usually deserves in my opinion.

See now, even in the trade Ray threads, they are not because he can't play. It's more to get younger or because people think they can get two starter, etc. I don't put much stock in the trade threads anyway. They always seem to be one sided. Something like trade Ray to Atlanta for Joe Johnson and Horford. That's not really anything againsn't Ray.

Anyway I do have a guestion for you. You said earlier "We know what Ray is". So what does that mean? I'm not trying to br flip, I mean it, in your opinion what is Ray?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Well I was working under the impression that you were questioning me on why I didn't go in depth with Ray, and that's basically it. Not going to complain much about his defense because I know he's a limited defender, so how much more can I ask of him for example? I can only ask that he puts in the effort, which he usually does.

[papa shuttlesworth]

Ray's shot has been off in the preseason and this game.  It should come around soon.  Even though he shot poorly last night and had some turnovers, I thought he had a decent game. 

Last year Cleveland took away his game by sticking someone to him all game, preventing the Celtics from running their usual plays for him.  He had horrible games versus Cleveland.  Some other teams worked this strategy pretty well too.  I think the Celtics tried to put the ball in his hands more this game to change things up and prevent this.  It seemed to work well and he was much more active in the offense than in last year's games.  If he made a couple more of those shots or if some of the muggings were actually called fouls, Ray would've had 20+ points last night.

I know that he isn't the best ball handler, but I'd much rather see him turn the ball over a few times trying to create something within the offense than to stand on the baseline three point line and be ineffective all game.