Author Topic: Rondo wants All-Star money  (Read 22912 times)

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Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2009, 06:07:24 PM »

Offline KungPoweChicken

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One rumor I really want to start is that if Rondo does not blow the C's brass away this year, they will sign and trade him to Minnesota (who have cap space, but may sign and trade for him, because of the risk of being matched) for the rights to Ricky Rubio.  Then sign a FA point guard with the MLE.  But we can wait until next year for that fun...


I like it.

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2009, 06:22:56 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I got this over at RealGM (hat tip: Wolves2011).  It looks at the salaries of most of the starting PGs in the league:

Quote
Arenas $16.2 million - Wizards
Chris Paul $13.5 million - Hornets
Williams $13.5 million - Jazz
Nash $13.1 million - Suns
Parker - $12.6 million - Spurs
Davis $12.5 million - Clippers
Billups $12.1 million - Nuggets
Ellis $11.0 million - Warriors
Mo Williams $8.9 million - Cavs
Ford - $8.5 million - Pacers
Harris $8.4 million - Nets
Calderon $8.2 million - Raptors
Kidd - $8.0 million - Mavericks - last deal less money.
Miller $6.7 million - Blazers -
Ridnour $6.5 million - Bucks
Bibby $6.2 million - Hawks - last deal, less money.
Nelson $6.1 million - Magic
Udrich - $6.1 million - Kings
Duhon $6.0 million - Knicks
Felton $5.5 million - Bobcats
Rose $5.2 million Bulls - 2nd year
Fischer $5.0 million - Lakers
Conley $3.9 million - Grizzlies - 3rd year
Westbrook $3.8 million - Thunder - 2nd year
Flynn $3.0 million - Wolves - rookie
Rondo $2.6 million - Boston
Stuckey - $1.8 million - Pistons
Holliday $1.5 million [rookie] - 76ers
Brooks $1.1 million - Rockets - 3rd year
Chalmers 0.8 million - Heat - 2nd year

Based on that, I still think something in the $8 - $10 million range is fair, with Monta being the outlier.

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Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2009, 07:01:48 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I got this over at RealGM (hat tip: Wolves2011).  It looks at the salaries of most of the starting PGs in the league:

Quote
Arenas $16.2 million - Wizards
Chris Paul $13.5 million - Hornets
Williams $13.5 million - Jazz
Nash $13.1 million - Suns
Parker - $12.6 million - Spurs
Davis $12.5 million - Clippers
Billups $12.1 million - Nuggets
Ellis $11.0 million - Warriors
Mo Williams $8.9 million - Cavs
Ford - $8.5 million - Pacers
Harris $8.4 million - Nets
Calderon $8.2 million - Raptors
Kidd - $8.0 million - Mavericks - last deal less money.
Miller $6.7 million - Blazers -
Ridnour $6.5 million - Bucks
Bibby $6.2 million - Hawks - last deal, less money.
Nelson $6.1 million - Magic
Udrich - $6.1 million - Kings
Duhon $6.0 million - Knicks
Felton $5.5 million - Bobcats
Rose $5.2 million Bulls - 2nd year
Fischer $5.0 million - Lakers
Conley $3.9 million - Grizzlies - 3rd year
Westbrook $3.8 million - Thunder - 2nd year
Flynn $3.0 million - Wolves - rookie
Rondo $2.6 million - Boston
Stuckey - $1.8 million - Pistons
Holliday $1.5 million [rookie] - 76ers
Brooks $1.1 million - Rockets - 3rd year
Chalmers 0.8 million - Heat - 2nd year

Based on that, I still think something in the $8 - $10 million range is fair, with Monta being the outlier.

This sums it up pretty well. The cut-off point seems to be Mo Williams.  Above Mo, there are the 2 best young PGs in the league and all the high quality veterans, pretty much all guys you could argue have (or recently had) more value than Rondo (save Monta).  Mo and below, there is no one I'd want ahead of Rondo.  SO 8 to 10 to start sounds right on the money!

I think this makes the market price pretty clear and I am sure DA has/will offer in that range.  Rondo, however, is smart to let it play out -- he could definitely get a buyer willing to pay closer to DW/ CP money.  Question is, how much over market value will DA be willing to pay?

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2009, 07:31:30 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I got this over at RealGM (hat tip: Wolves2011).  It looks at the salaries of most of the starting PGs in the league:

Quote
Arenas $16.2 million - Wizards
Chris Paul $13.5 million - Hornets
Williams $13.5 million - Jazz
Nash $13.1 million - Suns
Parker - $12.6 million - Spurs
Davis $12.5 million - Clippers
Billups $12.1 million - Nuggets
Ellis $11.0 million - Warriors
Mo Williams $8.9 million - Cavs
Ford - $8.5 million - Pacers
Harris $8.4 million - Nets
Calderon $8.2 million - Raptors
Kidd - $8.0 million - Mavericks - last deal less money.
Miller $6.7 million - Blazers -
Ridnour $6.5 million - Bucks
Bibby $6.2 million - Hawks - last deal, less money.
Nelson $6.1 million - Magic
Udrich - $6.1 million - Kings
Duhon $6.0 million - Knicks
Felton $5.5 million - Bobcats
Rose $5.2 million Bulls - 2nd year
Fischer $5.0 million - Lakers
Conley $3.9 million - Grizzlies - 3rd year
Westbrook $3.8 million - Thunder - 2nd year
Flynn $3.0 million - Wolves - rookie
Rondo $2.6 million - Boston
Stuckey - $1.8 million - Pistons
Holliday $1.5 million [rookie] - 76ers
Brooks $1.1 million - Rockets - 3rd year
Chalmers 0.8 million - Heat - 2nd year

Based on that, I still think something in the $8 - $10 million range is fair, with Monta being the outlier.

  The economy will figure into things, but figure Rondo's next contract to start next season when he's 24 with 4 years experience and go for 5 years or so. In the middle of the contract he'd be 27 with 7 years experience. How many of those $8M-$10M players are better now than you'd expect Rondo to be then? How many of them are significantly better than Rondo is now?

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2009, 07:35:43 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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  The economy will figure into things, but figure Rondo's next contract to start next season when he's 24 with 4 years experience and go for 5 years or so. In the middle of the contract he'd be 27 with 7 years experience. How many of those $8M-$10M players are better now than you'd expect Rondo to be then? How many of them are significantly better than Rondo is now?

Frankly, at this point I don't know what to expect from Rondo's development, but in four or five years, I'd still expect him to be outside the absolutely elite PGs, but still in the top ten.  In other words, pretty much (in relative terms) where he is now.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #110 on: October 24, 2009, 07:41:26 PM »

Offline Jon

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Exactly how much is a max contract right now for a player with Rondo's years if he's signed by another team?  I know that players can't get as much money if they go elsewhere.  So what's the absolute worst case scenario if another team gives him an offer sheet? 

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #111 on: October 24, 2009, 07:54:48 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  The economy will figure into things, but figure Rondo's next contract to start next season when he's 24 with 4 years experience and go for 5 years or so. In the middle of the contract he'd be 27 with 7 years experience. How many of those $8M-$10M players are better now than you'd expect Rondo to be then? How many of them are significantly better than Rondo is now?

Frankly, at this point I don't know what to expect from Rondo's development, but in four or five years, I'd still expect him to be outside the absolutely elite PGs, but still in the top ten.  In other words, pretty much (in relative terms) where he is now.

  After watching him improve over the last two years I'd be shocked if he's no better when he's 27 than he is now. Is he that far outside the norm for younger nba players? I can see why you're so lukewarm on his extension. I wouldn't pay him a fortune if I thought he's hitting a plateau now.

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #112 on: October 24, 2009, 08:01:50 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Exactly how much is a max contract right now for a player with Rondo's years if he's signed by another team?  I know that players can't get as much money if they go elsewhere.  So what's the absolute worst case scenario if another team gives him an offer sheet? 

It's going to be right around $13.5 million in the first year.

Teams signing their own player can give them a six year deal, with raises equivalent to 10.5% of the first year salary in each year.

Teams signing somebody else's player can give them a five year deal, with raises equivalent to 8.0% of the first year salary in each year.

If my math is right, the max deal we could give is 6 years, approximately $102.26 million, or $17.04 million per year.  An opposing team could offer $78.3 million (or $15.66 million per year) if they signed Rondo outright (or they could always attempt a sign-and-trade).

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #113 on: October 24, 2009, 08:05:23 PM »

Offline Chris

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I got this over at RealGM (hat tip: Wolves2011).  It looks at the salaries of most of the starting PGs in the league:

Quote
Arenas $16.2 million - Wizards
Chris Paul $13.5 million - Hornets
Williams $13.5 million - Jazz
Nash $13.1 million - Suns
Parker - $12.6 million - Spurs
Davis $12.5 million - Clippers
Billups $12.1 million - Nuggets
Ellis $11.0 million - Warriors
Mo Williams $8.9 million - Cavs
Ford - $8.5 million - Pacers
Harris $8.4 million - Nets
Calderon $8.2 million - Raptors
Kidd - $8.0 million - Mavericks - last deal less money.
Miller $6.7 million - Blazers -
Ridnour $6.5 million - Bucks
Bibby $6.2 million - Hawks - last deal, less money.
Nelson $6.1 million - Magic
Udrich - $6.1 million - Kings
Duhon $6.0 million - Knicks
Felton $5.5 million - Bobcats
Rose $5.2 million Bulls - 2nd year
Fischer $5.0 million - Lakers
Conley $3.9 million - Grizzlies - 3rd year
Westbrook $3.8 million - Thunder - 2nd year
Flynn $3.0 million - Wolves - rookie
Rondo $2.6 million - Boston
Stuckey - $1.8 million - Pistons
Holliday $1.5 million [rookie] - 76ers
Brooks $1.1 million - Rockets - 3rd year
Chalmers 0.8 million - Heat - 2nd year

Based on that, I still think something in the $8 - $10 million range is fair, with Monta being the outlier.

I agree that it is fair.  The problem is, it will take significantly more than fair to convince Rondo not to try his luck on the open market after another year in the limelight with a championship caliber team.

Unless Rondo legitimately thinks his value will drop this season, it will be hard to convince him to take "fair" money this summer.

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #114 on: October 24, 2009, 08:06:27 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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  The economy will figure into things, but figure Rondo's next contract to start next season when he's 24 with 4 years experience and go for 5 years or so. In the middle of the contract he'd be 27 with 7 years experience. How many of those $8M-$10M players are better now than you'd expect Rondo to be then? How many of them are significantly better than Rondo is now?

Frankly, at this point I don't know what to expect from Rondo's development, but in four or five years, I'd still expect him to be outside the absolutely elite PGs, but still in the top ten.  In other words, pretty much (in relative terms) where he is now.

  After watching him improve over the last two years I'd be shocked if he's no better when he's 27 than he is now. Is he that far outside the norm for younger nba players? I can see why you're so lukewarm on his extension. I wouldn't pay him a fortune if I thought he's hitting a plateau now.

Well, as mentioned, it's hard to say.  For instance, in some areas Rondo regressed last season.  His overall jump shooting declined last season, and his FT% was lower than in his rookie season.  For his to reach elite status, I expect his eFG% on jumpers to be better than 2nd worst among starters, or his FT% to be worst among all qualifying PGs.  However, nothing to date suggests that Rondo actually will improve in those areas; we're just hoping he does.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #115 on: October 24, 2009, 08:31:40 PM »

Offline BballTim

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  The economy will figure into things, but figure Rondo's next contract to start next season when he's 24 with 4 years experience and go for 5 years or so. In the middle of the contract he'd be 27 with 7 years experience. How many of those $8M-$10M players are better now than you'd expect Rondo to be then? How many of them are significantly better than Rondo is now?

Frankly, at this point I don't know what to expect from Rondo's development, but in four or five years, I'd still expect him to be outside the absolutely elite PGs, but still in the top ten.  In other words, pretty much (in relative terms) where he is now.

  After watching him improve over the last two years I'd be shocked if he's no better when he's 27 than he is now. Is he that far outside the norm for younger nba players? I can see why you're so lukewarm on his extension. I wouldn't pay him a fortune if I thought he's hitting a plateau now.

Well, as mentioned, it's hard to say.  For instance, in some areas Rondo regressed last season.  His overall jump shooting declined last season, and his FT% was lower than in his rookie season.  For his to reach elite status, I expect his eFG% on jumpers to be better than 2nd worst among starters, or his FT% to be worst among all qualifying PGs.  However, nothing to date suggests that Rondo actually will improve in those areas; we're just hoping he does.

  It's almost always the case for younger players that their shooting and ft stats go up and down from year to year. It's not regressing. In fact it's extremely rare for players to not have those ups and downs. It's also far from unusual for younger players to struggle from the line.

  Honestly I think you get a little hung up on some of these numbers. His overall jumpshooting declined last year but if you checked out his hotspot numbers for a given range over the two years there wasn't much of a decline from any given distance, but it had to do with where he shot from. Similarly, his fg% from a given distance isn't that far off from most of the best pgs. If you check out the difference between Rondo and Parker on 82games and nba hotspots you'd see that most of the difference between their jumpshot efg% is which of their shots from a few feet from the hoop were considered jumpshots vs inside shots.

  Having said all that, even if he's never the best jump shooter (the way, for instance, Parker isn't) I'd still expect him to get more consistent over time (like almost all other players do) which would, in itself, move him farther up the list.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 08:40:11 PM by BballTim »

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #116 on: October 24, 2009, 09:12:19 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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pay him and lock him up for us!

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #117 on: October 24, 2009, 09:16:20 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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give me a ps3 and a year supply of old english and i'll run the point...

boom...save money

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #118 on: October 24, 2009, 09:17:10 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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give me a ps3 and a year supply of old english and i'll run the point...

boom...save money

they offered that to vin baker and it didnt work out too well for either party  ;)

Re: Rondo wants All-Star money
« Reply #119 on: October 24, 2009, 09:45:26 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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?

must be the force cuzz u post but never shown as online?

master teach me the way of the darkside...