Rondo wants All-Star money

[GKC]

1. CP3
2. DWill
3. Rondo/Rose

Oh sure, Billups, Bdiddy and Nash are good, but they're ten years older.  You don't build a franchise around those older players.  And Nash, as good as he is offensively, is a major problem defensively, and the older he gets, the worse it will be.

Let me add that basketball players aren't fungible.  You can't say that a rotation player is worth "x", a starter is worth "y" and an all-star is worth "z".  That sort of comparables analysis may work in business valuations (albeit poorly) but it doesn't work with human beings.  An NBA player's worth is relative and depends on a complex set of factors.

Exactly. And less and less good point guards are coming out the pipeline. They are either too small, or simply just small tweener / big tweener types without great scoring abilities.

Also, Rondos barely 23. There's a huge amount of upside.

[nickagneta]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Devin Harris but that people have mentioned Jameer Nelson. I think, at this point, Harris might be better than Rondo. He is a tremndous defender, a scorer that gets to the line a lot and can hit his FTs(82%). He also is a very good passer, if not in Rondo's league, and has a very good assist to turnover ratio. He doesn't have long range on his shot but he is pretty decent as a mid range jump shooter.

What has all this got to do with Rondo? Well, I think they are amazingly similar players in terms of overall quality and I think Harris' contract is the one Danny will point at as the benchmark for any future Rondo contract. Harris has 4 years and roughly $38 million left on his contract, numbers I think the C's will work towards and that Rondo should be happy with.

Now, Rondo's side can argue, and I believe correctly so, that Rondo's game is still growing and that he is 3 years younger than Harris and has proven himself on the biggest stage. I think he will also be able to argue, correctly so, that Harris' game may have plateaued whereas Rondo has superstar potential.

Either way, I think negotiations will involve a lot of comparisons between these two players and their respective contracts. Personally a 4 year/$39.3 million contract with years of $8.5M/$9.392M/$10.285M/$11.177M and a team option of a fifth year at $12 million is a really good contract for Rondo that both sides should be able to live with.

[GKC]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Devin Harris but that people have mentioned Jameer Nelson. I think, at this point, Harris might be better than Rondo. He is a tremndous defender, a scorer that gets to the line a lot and can hit his FTs(82%). He also is a very good passer, if not in Rondo's league, and has a very good assist to turnover ratio. He doesn't have long range on his shot but he is pretty decent as a mid range jump shooter.

What has all this got to do with Rondo? Well, I think they are amazingly similar players in terms of overall quality and I think Harris' contract is the one Danny will point at as the benchmark for any future Rondo contract. Harris has 4 years and roughly $38 million left on his contract, numbers I think the C's will work towards and that Rondo should be happy with.

Now, Rondo's side can argue, and I believe correctly so, that Rondo's game is still growing and that he is 3 years younger than Harris and has proven himself on the biggest stage. I think he will also be able to argue, correctly so, that Harris' game may have plateaued whereas Rondo has superstar potential.

Either way, I think negotiations will involve a lot of comparisons between these two players and their respective contracts. Personally a 4 year/$39.3 million contract with years of $8.5M/$9.392M/$10.285M/$11.177M and a team option of a fifth year at $12 million is a really good contract for Rondo that both sides should be able to live with.

The problem is Devin Harris was given the contract before he was good. So Devin Harris would now be considered as underpaid. Or you can argue Rondo has that potential now.

Look, sign him up now or we'll overpay him later, which we don't want to do.

Also, Devin Harris Ast/TO ratio is terrible. It's 39th in the league, 30th amongst point guards

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbaassists&league=nba&split=0&sort=astto&avg=pg&qual=true&season=2009&seasontype=2&pos=pg

[Brickowski]

Devin Harris isn't as good as Rondo.

Actually the pg pipeline isn't drying up.  I'm looking forward to watching guys like Jonny Flynn, Tyreke Evans and (in two years) Ricky Rubio.

[billysan]

Another couple of points that are relevant to Rondo's future as a Celtic:

In 2011-2012 we will have a PG earning likely 12+ million per if we sign Rondo to what he wants. There will be no big three  to play with at that point. They, assuming any are with the team will be three years older and not likely more than a shadow of their former selves.

We will have resigned Perk assuming we keep him by that time as well. Does anyone really believe that Rondo's contract will not have an effect on what Perk wants? That will put us into a possible 22-24 million per neighborhood for the pair of them. I like them both as well as the next guy on this blog, but that is a lot of cap space.

As to Rondo's future superstar status, he has to prove a little more to earn that. The leadership credit on a championship caliber team with three future HOF starters is not going to be credited to him. The occaisional flashes of brilliance and inconsistent play will not support that argument.

If/when he starts an all-star game or is MVP of the Conference Championships or Finals, then he qualifies a little better. Until then he is just another exciting up and coming young PG that can be replaced.

He can be replaced right now with a half dozen young PG's in this league with very little drop off of team play and production, none being future superstars.

[JBcat]

I love Rondo but we should pay Rondo all star money when he becomes an all star and becomes a consistent player star player game in and game out.

I mean how many times have we've seen a player turn it up before they are due for an extension only to level off after.   Not saying that would happen to Rondo but it doesn't hurt in waiting for a year when he is a restricted free agent and the cap potentially smaller.  

If he ends up proving close to Chris Paul money then all the power to him and we should give it to him but until then we can wait it out.  I think he can do it but I want to see it almost every game first.  

[nickagneta]

Again, the article did not define what All-Star money was. What the article said was he wants All-Star money but who's definition is it as to what an All-Star makes, the team's or Rondo's. For all we know this could be a planted story by the team to paint Rondo as greedy and get sympathy going their way in case we have to inevitably trade the growing more popular by the minute point guard.

What could be considered All-Star money by the team and whar we or the Rondo camp consider All-Star money could be very different things. I think this story, when taken into context with the fact that the team has already made less than flattering comments about his off the court but in the locker room and in the huddle demeanor means they are doing their best to make it seem like they have no other alternative but to not sign the young PG and trade him. I think this could all be a public relations move of trading him before the deadline.

A Rondo/Scal/Tony/Giddens for Andre Miller/Travis Outlaw at the deadline would not surprise me in the least.

[Chris]

A Rondo/Scal/Tony/Giddens for Andre Miller/Travis Outlaw at the deadline would not surprise me in the least.

I agree that there is a chance of a deadline deal involving Rondo (just like there could be one involving Ray), but why would they make a deal like that?  Rondo is already better than Miller, and the C's would be giving up roster flexibility. 

[NextCeltic34]

10 mill a year for Rondo is the highest I would probably go.

[BballTim]

Rondo shouldn't be paid like an all star until he is an all star - and not an injury replacement one, picked by Stern either.

Rondo's level right now: Quality Starter, not quite an all star: $40/5 or so.

If he makes the all star team, then he could be worth: $55/5

In order to get the max, he would have to be an MVP level PG, capable of carrying a mediocre talented team to an overachieving record (like Paul, Kidd, Iverson, etc over the years).

I think Rondo, right now, is a top 5 pg in the NBA.

1. Paul
2. Williams
(then a drop off)
3. Parker
4. Billups
5. Nash
6. Nelson
7. Rondo

Keep in mind that Rose is dripping with potential to break out after a great rookie year. And there is a cluster of dudes just below Rondo - Calderon, Miller, Terry, Kidd, Ford, etc.

Rondo needs to build on the consistency he showed in last spring's playoffs. Rondo is darn good, love his game, but he is not a Jedi yet.

  At this stage in his career Nash isn't better than Rondo and if Billups is he won't be for much longer. Nelson, last year, shot wildly better that he ever has in the pasta nd still wasn't necessarily better, but I'd like to see him do it for a full season before I'd put him anywhere near the top. If Rondo shows anywhere near the improvement he's shown in the past then he'd be fighting Billups and Nelson for the 4th spot on that list.

Consistency is the key. You know what you will get from Nash, Billups and Nelson night after night.

You never know which Rondo will show up. Sometimes he looks like a top 5 starter, sometimes (not as much anymore) he looks like a bottom 5 starter.

  Sure, you'll get more consistency from players that are 10 years older than Rondo (although if the Nash we see Rondo make look like he's about 40 years old is what Phoenix gets night after night he's nowhere near a top 20 pg). But Rondo's still better than Nash, and Nelson's only been consistent for about a half a season. I'd say every player on your list aside from Paul and Williams is either in or past their primes, while Rondo's got 3-4 years to grow before he hits his.

[BballTim]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Devin Harris but that people have mentioned Jameer Nelson. I think, at this point, Harris might be better than Rondo. He is a tremndous defender, a scorer that gets to the line a lot and can hit his FTs(82%). He also is a very good passer, if not in Rondo's league, and has a very good assist to turnover ratio. He doesn't have long range on his shot but he is pretty decent as a mid range jump shooter.

What has all this got to do with Rondo? Well, I think they are amazingly similar players in terms of overall quality and I think Harris' contract is the one Danny will point at as the benchmark for any future Rondo contract. Harris has 4 years and roughly $38 million left on his contract, numbers I think the C's will work towards and that Rondo should be happy with.

Now, Rondo's side can argue, and I believe correctly so, that Rondo's game is still growing and that he is 3 years younger than Harris and has proven himself on the biggest stage. I think he will also be able to argue, correctly so, that Harris' game may have plateaued whereas Rondo has superstar potential.

Either way, I think negotiations will involve a lot of comparisons between these two players and their respective contracts. Personally a 4 year/$39.3 million contract with years of $8.5M/$9.392M/$10.285M/$11.177M and a team option of a fifth year at $12 million is a really good contract for Rondo that both sides should be able to live with.

  The year before Harris signed his extension he averaged 10/2.5/3.7. Rondo, last year, was 12/5.2/8.2 with a ring and some playoff success. You're comparing Harris after he made his jump to Rondo before he makes his.

[nickagneta]

A Rondo/Scal/Tony/Giddens for Andre Miller/Travis Outlaw at the deadline would not surprise me in the least.

I agree that there is a chance of a deadline deal involving Rondo (just like there could be one involving Ray), but why would they make a deal like that?  Rondo is already better than Miller, and the C's would be giving up roster flexibility. 

I think a deal like that makes sense for a couple reasons.

One, Miller is a very good PG who's contract is very reasonable and guaranteed for one more year and partially guaranteed for another. It fits in really well with the whole "everyone expiring at the same time after 2012" theory of rebuilding then.

Two, the expirings work well for Portland and allow then some payroll flexibility while gaining control of a young dynamic PG to add to their young core of Roy, Oden, Aldridge, Batum, Webster, Fernandez and Bayless.

Three, Portland is loaded at the 3 and they are already committed to Batum and Webster so I think Outlaw is the one to go.

Four, Outlaw is the perfect compliment as the bench defensive 3 in a Posey like role and we would still own his Bird rights. I think we would do well to resign him.

[Fan from VT]

I'm going to get lambasted for even suggesting an idea that is so contrary to conventional wisdom, but here we go...


As far as I've read, there is no evidential correlation between game to game consistency and winning, among either teams or players. Various statisticians have tried to add a "standard deviation" category to their various analyses, but such categories have never been shown to matter at all. In other words, a team of players who average 10/10 for the season and have games of 5/5 and 15/15 have the same win/loss probability as a team of players who average 10/10 with games of 9/9 and 11/11, etc. 

How does this tie into Rondo? Obviously, it would be nice if Rondo could be more consistent. But NOT because we want 11/7/5 EVERY night. No. We want him to be more consistent so that instead of being an 11/7/5 guy bouncing from 5/4/3 to 17/10//7 each night he's more fluctuating between 10/6/4 and 17/10/7 and actually raises his overall production to the 14/9/6 range or so.


Okay, tell me i'm an idiot, and that stats mean nothing and you'll trust your own eyes before some formula. Then try to show me how consistency in and of itself and not related to overall improvement helps produce wins.



This all a roundabout way of saying i'd throw up in my mouth if Rondo was traded for Andre Miller.

[nickagneta]

I can't believe no one has mentioned Devin Harris but that people have mentioned Jameer Nelson. I think, at this point, Harris might be better than Rondo. He is a tremndous defender, a scorer that gets to the line a lot and can hit his FTs(82%). He also is a very good passer, if not in Rondo's league, and has a very good assist to turnover ratio. He doesn't have long range on his shot but he is pretty decent as a mid range jump shooter.

What has all this got to do with Rondo? Well, I think they are amazingly similar players in terms of overall quality and I think Harris' contract is the one Danny will point at as the benchmark for any future Rondo contract. Harris has 4 years and roughly $38 million left on his contract, numbers I think the C's will work towards and that Rondo should be happy with.

Now, Rondo's side can argue, and I believe correctly so, that Rondo's game is still growing and that he is 3 years younger than Harris and has proven himself on the biggest stage. I think he will also be able to argue, correctly so, that Harris' game may have plateaued whereas Rondo has superstar potential.

Either way, I think negotiations will involve a lot of comparisons between these two players and their respective contracts. Personally a 4 year/$39.3 million contract with years of $8.5M/$9.392M/$10.285M/$11.177M and a team option of a fifth year at $12 million is a really good contract for Rondo that both sides should be able to live with.

  The year before Harris signed his extension he averaged 10/2.5/3.7. Rondo, last year, was 12/5.2/8.2 with a ring and some playoff success. You're comparing Harris after he made his jump to Rondo before he makes his.

Two completely different marketplaces. New Jersey signed him for his potential in a market that was still quite inflated. Rondo will be paid for what he is in a down market. That's why I think the numbers will be very close.

[BBS]

So he wants all-star money? Whats the problem just pay him. So we arnt waiting another 20+ years for a great point gaurd to come along. Now whats so hard about that. 5 Years 55 mill or 6 years 65 mill I am good with either figure. Cuz it's not my money but if it was I would get that deal done like yesterday.

Edit: Watching the Celtis Season Preview right now. Tommy just said everone is picking LA to win it all and they think LA is some all world team. Then he said The year we played them the had no one to stop Rondo and they still have no one to stop him. So thats why I am picking the Celtics to win it all and not the other guys. Just Rondo.