Rondo wants All-Star money

[Bankshot]

Okay, I'm ready to be laughed off celticsblog.  But Rondo's not signing means that the C's are just a little more likely to give Hudson playing time when they can, and develop him all the more this year. 

No, he's not stepping in as next year's starter if Rondo's price gets too steep.  But they won't have any incentive to inflate either Rondo's stats or his head.  Playing Rondo a little less and Hudson a little more in this scenario.

I doubt Hudson will have any impact on their decision on Rondo.  Unless Hudson surprises us and becomes a flat out star, I don't see it.

[clover]

I'm certain Hudson has zero impact on the C's contract decision re: Rondo. 

I just think it won't hurt Hudson and will a tad help if the star ahead of him all of a sudden is heading for restricted free agency.

[celts55]

While there's still a chance that the two sides agree to an extension, a source close to the process told me it's unlikely. Rondo wants All-Star money and the Celtics aren't convinced he'll handle a five-year guaranteed deal well. It’s a classic maturity-vs.-talent battle that the Celtics may ultimately lose. - ESPN.com

It looking more and more like RR is going to test his worth as a restricted FA next summer. Should the Celtics look into locking him up and avoiding a Ben Gordon type situation? Is there incentive for the C's to lock him up now rather than waiting?

I would think the incentive could be that Rondo really looks like he's taken another step forward this pre season. He's playing better D, seeing the court really well, making steals, knowing when to take the ball to the hole, he's even starting to hit a pull up jumper. Really the only weak point is his free throw shooting. I would assume if he keeps getting better, his price will go up. So I would think it might be an advantage to sign him now, before he's an actual all-star.

[GKC]

I say give it to him. We're paying not just for him, but what he will become down the line (which is why the Devin Harris contract was genius. He wasn't that great when he was signed...too bad they traded him but that's a different story).

Guards who pass that well are not a dime a dozen, and those who rebound and defend well definitely warrant money. I'd go 9-11 range.

That being said, what kills it is Bargnani's contract, which caused an inflation this year since agents are all saying "hey but my clients better than that Italian guy". It's my theory for why LMA got paid so much.

[the_Bird]

Okay, I'm ready to be laughed off celticsblog.  But Rondo's not signing means that the C's are just a little more likely to give Hudson playing time when they can, and develop him all the more this year. 

No, he's not stepping in as next year's starter if Rondo's price gets too steep.  But they won't have any incentive to inflate either Rondo's stats or his head.  Playing Rondo a little less and Hudson a little more in this scenario.

Well, I'll start the chuckling... 

Let's stop with the absurd Hudson love.  I like the kid, but...  c'mon.  He hasn't been THAT good.  Never a time when I thought "Hudson's one of the best guys on the court right now," even when he's been playing with scrubs.  He's looked like he might belong, but nothing more than that.

So, Rondo's contract has zero bearing on Hudson.  They aren't going to do anything to jeapordize the drive for Banner 18 just to try and save a couple million next year.  Penny-wise, pound-foolish; there's a lot more money to be made from another championship than they would "save" by only having to pay Rondo $8M instead of $11M.  Plus, they'd just p--- off Rondo. 

Hudson hasn't shown anything this preseason other than he might be able to scrape the very bottom edge of the playing rotation.  Rondo's a likely All Star; Hudson's a likely D-Leaguer, or best-case a 10th man.  Nothing to do with each other whatsoever.

[MrTripleDouble10]

I'm curious what "all star money" is.  Devin Harris is an all-star caliber player playing on a fairly reasonable contract (5 years, roughly $42.6 million).  Jose' Calderson signed for 6 years, $50 million, I believe.  Neither one of those deals, in my opinion, would be a bad option.

Of course, we shouldn't give Rondo a max contract starting at roughly $13 - $13.5 million per season.  However, something that begins in the $7m - $9m range sounds reasonable.

Excellent examples.  I think most would agree that we could use the Harris contract as a solid comparison and baseline to estimate what a viable contract would be for Rondo.  I think that number is more than fair and accurate for his current market value.  Just look at these other examples (number is what they make for this season):

Mike Bibby: $6 million
Raymond Felton: $5.5 million
Kirk Hinrich: $9.5 million
Mo Williams: $8.9 million
Jason Kidd: $8 million
Chauncey Billups: $12.1
Monta Ellis: $11 million
TJ Ford: $8.5 million
Baron Davis: $12.2 million
Derek Fisher: $5.1 million
Allen Iverson: $3.1 million
Luke Ridnour: $6.5 million
Antonio Daniels: $6.6 million
Ramon Sessions: $4 million
Devin Harris: $8.5 million
Chris Paul: $13.5 million
Chris Duhon: $6 million
Earl Watson: $6.6 million
Jameer Nelson: $6.1 million
Louis Williams: $6 million
Steve Nash: $11 million
Andre Miller: $6.7 million
Beno Udrih: $6.1 million
Tony Parker: $12.6 million
Jose Calderon: $8.2 million
Deron Williams: $13.5 million
Gilbert Arenas: $16.1 million

Out of all of these, the "all-star" level players (past or present) are: Mo Williams, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups, Baron Davis, Devin Harris, Chris Paul, Jameer Nelson, Steve Nash, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas (amazingly Deron Williams has never been an all-star).

So, if we were to take the average salary of all of the "all-stars," it would come out to $11.2 million.  But, for all intents and purposes, we can all say that Deron Williams is an all-star.  So, if you add his salary in, that figure comes out to roughly: $11.5 million.

So I guess the question is weather or not Ainge and the Celtics management values Rondo at that level.  I'm still willing to bet that Rondo and his agent, Bill Duffy, are using the Devin Harris/Mo Williams contracts as a baseline.

[Chris]

While there's still a chance that the two sides agree to an extension, a source close to the process told me it's unlikely. Rondo wants All-Star money and the Celtics aren't convinced he'll handle a five-year guaranteed deal well. It’s a classic maturity-vs.-talent battle that the Celtics may ultimately lose. - ESPN.com

It looking more and more like RR is going to test his worth as a restricted FA next summer. Should the Celtics look into locking him up and avoiding a Ben Gordon type situation? Is there incentive for the C's to lock him up now rather than waiting?

It would take the C's overpaying him based on his production to sign him right now, so I think the C's are doing the right thing by waiting it out.  It will allow them to keep all of their options open, especially since it maintains Rondo's tradability instead of making him a poison-pill player.  And really, they still can easily resign him next year, and worst-case scenario would be that they end up paying a few million extra than what it would have taken to convince him to sign this year.

  Overpaying based on current production is pretty much how the contracts for young players work. Look at the production for players like Devin Harris and Tony Parker before they signed their present deals. Rondo's numbers were probably better than either of those.

Harris was signed to that big deal, because the Nets just traded Kidd for him, and would have been killed by their fans if they let him walk.  Not to mention, Rondo is likely looking for much more money.

Parker is an interesting situation though.  He signed a pretty big deal, and he actually was a little more consistent than Rondo is right now when he signed it.  But I think he actually signed for a little less than market value...and I don't see Rondo doing that this summer.

The fact is, generally the only times players sign big deals the summer before they are RFA's, it is because of a few reasons.  1. They are an absolute superstar, and they are getting Max money (Paul, Lebron, Bosh, etc.) 2. The player is willing to take less than market value, in order to get the contract wrapped up early or 3. The team is desperate to get it taken care of, either because they need to appease the fans...or they are simply idiots.  

The C's are not in any of those situations.

And I may have mispoke when I said overpaying for current production.  I meant overpaying for current PLAY.  Meaning, based on Rondo's current game, which has at least 1 gaping hole, and other questionmarks, it makes it tough to give him the type of money he will likely want.  Especially since they can have another look at him this year, keep their options open, and then still resign him next summer with a little more piece of mind that he is closing some of the holes in his game.

[Chris]

So I guess the question is weather or not Ainge and the Celtics management values Rondo at that level.  I'm still willing to bet that Rondo and his agent, Bill Duffy, are using the Devin Harris/Mo Williams contracts as a baseline.

I would be shocked if they are using them as a baseline.  I think they look at the amount of teams with cap space next season, and the probability that Rondo's value will climb this year, both with his play, as well as another season leading a team deep into the playoffs. 

I think anything less than $10 million per year would be laughed off, and they are likely looking closer for $11-12 million. 

They know that they can almost certainly get $10 million next season, with the chance of earning a max deal.  Rondo is way too self-confident to take less than that now.

[JSD]

While there's still a chance that the two sides agree to an extension, a source close to the process told me it's unlikely. Rondo wants All-Star money and the Celtics aren't convinced he'll handle a five-year guaranteed deal well. It’s a classic maturity-vs.-talent battle that the Celtics may ultimately lose. - ESPN.com

It looking more and more like RR is going to test his worth as a restricted FA next summer. Should the Celtics look into locking him up and avoiding a Ben Gordon type situation? Is there incentive for the C's to lock him up now rather than waiting?

I would think the incentive could be that Rondo really looks like he's taken another step forward this pre season. He's playing better D, seeing the court really well, making steals, knowing when to take the ball to the hole, he's even starting to hit a pull up jumper. Really the only weak point is his free throw shooting. I would assume if he keeps getting better, his price will go up. So I would think it might be an advantage to sign him now, before he's an actual all-star.

I believe there is a salary max for players signing there "after rookie" contract.

[Brickowski]

No, I think Cedric Maxwell was right.  Rondo wants 5 years, 50 million, which means that he starts out at roughly what Devin Harris is making now and ends at around 12 million in year 5.

I think the Celtics should jump at that, because Rondo will be worth even more next Summer.  Conversely, Rondo probably should wait, and I doubt very much that his Agent is breaking down Ainge's door.

[BballTim]

While there's still a chance that the two sides agree to an extension, a source close to the process told me it's unlikely. Rondo wants All-Star money and the Celtics aren't convinced he'll handle a five-year guaranteed deal well. It’s a classic maturity-vs.-talent battle that the Celtics may ultimately lose. - ESPN.com

It looking more and more like RR is going to test his worth as a restricted FA next summer. Should the Celtics look into locking him up and avoiding a Ben Gordon type situation? Is there incentive for the C's to lock him up now rather than waiting?

It would take the C's overpaying him based on his production to sign him right now, so I think the C's are doing the right thing by waiting it out.  It will allow them to keep all of their options open, especially since it maintains Rondo's tradability instead of making him a poison-pill player.  And really, they still can easily resign him next year, and worst-case scenario would be that they end up paying a few million extra than what it would have taken to convince him to sign this year.

  Overpaying based on current production is pretty much how the contracts for young players work. Look at the production for players like Devin Harris and Tony Parker before they signed their present deals. Rondo's numbers were probably better than either of those.

Harris was signed to that big deal, because the Nets just traded Kidd for him, and would have been killed by their fans if they let him walk.  Not to mention, Rondo is likely looking for much more money.

Parker is an interesting situation though.  He signed a pretty big deal, and he actually was a little more consistent than Rondo is right now when he signed it.  But I think he actually signed for a little less than market value...and I don't see Rondo doing that this summer.

The fact is, generally the only times players sign big deals the summer before they are RFA's, it is because of a few reasons.  1. They are an absolute superstar, and they are getting Max money (Paul, Lebron, Bosh, etc.) 2. The player is willing to take less than market value, in order to get the contract wrapped up early or 3. The team is desperate to get it taken care of, either because they need to appease the fans...or they are simply idiots.  

The C's are not in any of those situations.

And I may have mispoke when I said overpaying for current production.  I meant overpaying for current PLAY.  Meaning, based on Rondo's current game, which has at least 1 gaping hole, and other questionmarks, it makes it tough to give him the type of money he will likely want.  Especially since they can have another look at him this year, keep their options open, and then still resign him next summer with a little more piece of mind that he is closing some of the holes in his game.

  Harris was traded from Dallas during the season when he'd agreed to his extension before the season started. Teams sign players the season before they are RFAs to try and get them to more reasonable deals. Look at Chicago, offering Deng and Gordon deals in excess of $10M at Rondo's stage of their contracts. Rondo's extremely likely to play better this year than he did last year. He'll likely get all-star consideration if he doesn't make the team. Teams will have tons of cap space. Why wouldn't he be worth more next year than he is now?

[JSD]

No, I think Cedric Maxwell was right.  Rondo wants 5 years, 50 million, which means that he starts out at roughly what Devin Harris is making now and ends at around 12 million in year 5.

I think the Celtics should jump at that, because Rondo will be worth even more next Summer.  Conversely, Rondo probably should wait, and I doubt very much that his Agent is breaking down Ainge's door.

After predicting Big Baby will sign a $10 Million per year, I don't listen to a thing Max has to say about contracts. That said, I think Rondo is looking for max "2nd contract" money.

[BballTim]

While there's still a chance that the two sides agree to an extension, a source close to the process told me it's unlikely. Rondo wants All-Star money and the Celtics aren't convinced he'll handle a five-year guaranteed deal well. It’s a classic maturity-vs.-talent battle that the Celtics may ultimately lose. - ESPN.com

It looking more and more like RR is going to test his worth as a restricted FA next summer. Should the Celtics look into locking him up and avoiding a Ben Gordon type situation? Is there incentive for the C's to lock him up now rather than waiting?

I would think the incentive could be that Rondo really looks like he's taken another step forward this pre season. He's playing better D, seeing the court really well, making steals, knowing when to take the ball to the hole, he's even starting to hit a pull up jumper. Really the only weak point is his free throw shooting. I would assume if he keeps getting better, his price will go up. So I would think it might be an advantage to sign him now, before he's an actual all-star.

I believe there is a Max for players signing there "after rookie" contract.

  Yes, but that Max is probably around $14-$15M a year.

[the_Bird]

I've got to believe that 5/$50M would have been done already.  At the very least, they'd be having a lot more talks, because that can't be too far away from what the C's are offering.

[JSD]

While there's still a chance that the two sides agree to an extension, a source close to the process told me it's unlikely. Rondo wants All-Star money and the Celtics aren't convinced he'll handle a five-year guaranteed deal well. It’s a classic maturity-vs.-talent battle that the Celtics may ultimately lose. - ESPN.com

It looking more and more like RR is going to test his worth as a restricted FA next summer. Should the Celtics look into locking him up and avoiding a Ben Gordon type situation? Is there incentive for the C's to lock him up now rather than waiting?

I would think the incentive could be that Rondo really looks like he's taken another step forward this pre season. He's playing better D, seeing the court really well, making steals, knowing when to take the ball to the hole, he's even starting to hit a pull up jumper. Really the only weak point is his free throw shooting. I would assume if he keeps getting better, his price will go up. So I would think it might be an advantage to sign him now, before he's an actual all-star.

I believe there is a Max for players signing there "after rookie" contract.

  Yes, but that Max is probably around $14-$15M a year.

You think? I could be wrong, but I thought Big Al was given a salary max for a player signing his 2nd contract. His contract is like so: 11, 12, 13 , 14 and 15

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/timberwolves.jsp