Rondo let his man beat him on purpose to get steals?

[Fafnir]

Yeah I agree with you both, Rondo's rebounding ability is one of the reasons I think he has a chance to be an elite PG.

[GKC]

I really don't think Rondo was just looking to improve his stats (for one thing, when he pokes the ball away, ussually he is not the one credited with the steal, it is the person who catches the ball).  I think he is just hard-headed, and had convinced himself that he can help his team more by making big plays like that, than by staying in front of his man.  The fact that he seems to be understanding what Doc has been telling him about it, shows that he is starting to mature.

I agree.

As for offensive rebounds, those are trickier, I think.  Doc obviously sees more of the team than I do, but I think Rondo's rebounding is generally a plus; I can't think of a ton of examples where our transition defense really suffered because he went for an offensive board. 

From observation, I've seen Rondo crashing the defensive boards as more of a problem; our transition offense works best when the bigs rebound, and pass the ball up the floor to Rondo.  There were a couple of times in the playoffs where Rondo seemed to be fighting his own guys for rebounds, which doesn't really work.

Honestly, I think Doc dislike's Rondo's crashing the offensive boards more in theory than in practice.  I don't think it actually hurts them much, mainly because the team is so good overall, and the rest of the team is smart enough to cover for him.  However, it is a terrible habit for a PG to get into, since he is neglecting his responsibility to be the last line of defense to prevent a fast-break the other way.  But I think you are right (and Doc would probably admit it too, if you gave him truth serum...he just gets caught up in being too much of a coach sometimes).

I'm sure Doc HATE'S Rondo crashing the offensive boards, especially if it's not definitely in position. I love Rondo, but my one pet peeve is whenever he does this and does not secure the rebound, you have an outlet pass to a point guard racing down the other end. We saw this too much with Derrick Rose last year.

[Chris]

I really don't think Rondo was just looking to improve his stats (for one thing, when he pokes the ball away, ussually he is not the one credited with the steal, it is the person who catches the ball).  I think he is just hard-headed, and had convinced himself that he can help his team more by making big plays like that, than by staying in front of his man.  The fact that he seems to be understanding what Doc has been telling him about it, shows that he is starting to mature.

I agree.

As for offensive rebounds, those are trickier, I think.  Doc obviously sees more of the team than I do, but I think Rondo's rebounding is generally a plus; I can't think of a ton of examples where our transition defense really suffered because he went for an offensive board. 

From observation, I've seen Rondo crashing the defensive boards as more of a problem; our transition offense works best when the bigs rebound, and pass the ball up the floor to Rondo.  There were a couple of times in the playoffs where Rondo seemed to be fighting his own guys for rebounds, which doesn't really work.

Honestly, I think Doc dislike's Rondo's crashing the offensive boards more in theory than in practice.  I don't think it actually hurts them much, mainly because the team is so good overall, and the rest of the team is smart enough to cover for him.  However, it is a terrible habit for a PG to get into, since he is neglecting his responsibility to be the last line of defense to prevent a fast-break the other way.  But I think you are right (and Doc would probably admit it too, if you gave him truth serum...he just gets caught up in being too much of a coach sometimes).

I'm sure Doc HATE'S Rondo crashing the offensive boards, especially if it's not definitely in position. I love Rondo, but my one pet peeve is whenever he does this and does not secure the rebound, you have an outlet pass to a point guard racing down the other end. We saw this too much with Derrick Rose last year.

Yeah, it was actually after (or maybe during) the Bulls series that Doc was talking about this on WEEI.  He can get away with it against a lot of teams...but not the Bulls.  Not to mention, it makes it much worse when you don't have KG in there, as he is very good at getting back.

[BballTim]

Its all about trying to set up the game to play in your advantage and I dont really have any problem with it.

Isn't the thing that really matters that *Doc* had a problem with it?  I mean, Rondo is admitting that it wasn't the proper thing to do here.

The Celtics philosophy is to never put yourself in a poor position to give up easy points.  Steals are nice, but a good fundamental defensive stance that results in a stop is just as effective, and leads to a negative result less often.

Now, I suppose there's a debate whether Rondo was doing this just to boost his stats or not -- and I can see that being a little more contentious -- but as for the issue of whether he should be gambling six times per game, the answer is no (at least according to both Doc and Rondo).

  Not arguing with you Roy, as I don't think you're accusing Rondo of padding his stats in this post, but if Rondo wanted to pad his stats he'd start out by shooting the ball more and then probably go for more rebounds. Everybody talks about Rondo getting triple doubles in the playoffs. Nobody talks about Rose averaging about 5 turnovers a game against Rondo.

[MrTripleDouble10]

Its all about trying to set up the game to play in your advantage and I dont really have any problem with it.

Isn't the thing that really matters that *Doc* had a problem with it?  I mean, Rondo is admitting that it wasn't the proper thing to do here.

The Celtics philosophy is to never put yourself in a poor position to give up easy points.  Steals are nice, but a good fundamental defensive stance that results in a stop is just as effective, and leads to a negative result less often.

Now, I suppose there's a debate whether Rondo was doing this just to boost his stats or not -- and I can see that being a little more contentious -- but as for the issue of whether he should be gambling six times per game, the answer is no (at least according to both Doc and Rondo).

  Not arguing with you Roy, as I don't think you're accusing Rondo of padding his stats in this post, but if Rondo wanted to pad his stats he'd start out by shooting the ball more and then probably go for more rebounds. Everybody talks about Rondo getting triple doubles in the playoffs. Nobody talks about Rose averaging about 5 turnovers a game against Rondo.

That's because the majority of people like to focus on the minutia of Rondo's game.  Seems to me that his flaws are discussed far more than his assets, or anyone else's flaws for that matter.  It's hilarious to me.

[2short]

Rondo seems to play to the level of his competition, at his age that is ok, he'll grow (maybe this year)
The dj pat'd poke behind should be done at most 3 times a game.  At the end of the year last year rondo was playing on 2 bad ankles and keeping the man in front of him was not that easy so he was funneling player or trying to poke.  
I also have no problem with him pressuring & gambling a bit more than standard since we have perk & kg as shot blockers behind him.  Stats aside when rondo is on the opposing team doesn't get set into offense well into 24 second clock.
His rebounding numbers in playoffs were from team game of boxing out along with his great athleticism.

[GKC]

I love Rondo's game, and the gambling with a steal doesn't seem like too much of a problem, because he knows when and who to do it to.

My only problem with his game is sometimes he likes to pull out flashy or unnecessarily risky passes that lead to bad turnovers (he's had a few this preseason, worst one was throwing the ball into the stands against Toronto. Terrible pass).

However, I do believe his faults should be talked about internally, and not constantly addressed to the media. That can't help a guy.

[ToppersBsktball10]

I do this too, and sometimes for blocks. I know exactly where people put the ball for a lay up so I let them go by then swat it.

[Fafnir]

I do this too, and sometimes for blocks. I know exactly where people put the ball for a lay up so I let them go by then swat it.

So does Marcus Camby, its one of the reasons he's not a great defender anymore.

[ToppersBsktball10]

I do this too, and sometimes for blocks. I know exactly where people put the ball for a lay up so I let them go by then swat it.

So does Marcus Camby, its one of the reasons he's not a great defender anymore.

Lol I'm assuming it's also why there isn't any 8th graders in the NBA, plus a billion other reasons.

[GKC]

I do this too, and sometimes for blocks. I know exactly where people put the ball for a lay up so I let them go by then swat it.

So does Marcus Camby, its one of the reasons he's not a great defender anymore.

Lol I'm assuming it's also why there isn't any 8th graders in the NBA, plus a billion other reasons.

This is why Tim Duncan is great at D and Amare isn't. Tim? A lot of time's he doesn't need to leave the floor, and only goes for the block when he's the help defender. His stature is long enough that he knows, stand straight, hands up, possibly take a charge, is enough to alter someones shot.

Amare on the other hand almost always leaps for the swat. 10% of the time it ends in a highlight block. The other 90% of the time it's just a foul.

[Fafnir]

I do this too, and sometimes for blocks. I know exactly where people put the ball for a lay up so I let them go by then swat it.

So does Marcus Camby, its one of the reasons he's not a great defender anymore.

Lol I'm assuming it's also why there isn't any 8th graders in the NBA, plus a billion other reasons.

This is why Tim Duncan is great at D and Amare isn't. Tim? A lot of time's he doesn't need to leave the floor, and only goes for the block when he's the help defender. His stature is long enough that he knows, stand straight, hands up, possibly take a charge, is enough to alter someones shot.

Amare on the other hand almost always leaps for the swat. 10% of the time it ends in a highlight block. The other 90% of the time it's just a foul.

Exactly right, tp.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Ah, and I here I was thinking that I was making things up when I complained about Rondo's defense. I hope this puts the theory of "Rondo is simply funneling who he is defending to our big guys" to rest.

[Steve Weinman]

Ah, and I here I was thinking that I was making things up when I complained about Rondo's defense. I hope this puts the theory of "Rondo is simply funneling who he is defending to our big guys" to rest.

Been wondering when you would join this particular discussion, Bud.   

-sw

[twinbree]

Staying in front of his man and making his free throws are the main things I wanted to see Rondo work on this season. Easier and more realistic IMO than improving that jump shot so I'm very pleased to hear he's committed in at least one of those areas. Hopefully the FT% will get better too