Rondo let his man beat him on purpose to get steals?

[Bahku]

Thing is, even if he let's the defender beat him on purpose to knock the ball from behind, he still has enough speed to catch and overtake almost anyone else in the NBA, (with a couple of exceptions), so I don't see it as that bad a gamble.

[Roy Hobbs]

Thing is, even if he let's the defender beat him on purpose to knock the ball from behind, he still has enough speed to catch and overtake almost anyone else in the NBA, (with a couple of exceptions), so I don't see it as that bad a gamble.

I know what you're saying in theory, but observationally there were a lot of games last year when Rondo appeared to have trouble staying in front of his man.  If that was by design, it's a problem.  As Doc said, any time an opposing point guard is getting into the paint, it's an issue.

That doesn't mean that a player should never gamble.  However, it shouldn't be something that's happening four to six times per game, as Rondo acknowledged.

Obviously, Rondo's defense wasn't the biggest concern on the team, but it is something I'm glad to see addressed.  Rondo has the ability to be both disruptive *and* fundamentally sound, and I think we'll see that this season.

[Bahku]

Thing is, even if he let's the defender beat him on purpose to knock the ball from behind, he still has enough speed to catch and overtake almost anyone else in the NBA, (with a couple of exceptions), so I don't see it as that bad a gamble.

I know what you're saying in theory, but observationally there were a lot of games last year when Rondo appeared to have trouble staying in front of his man.  If that was by design, it's a problem.  As Doc said, any time an opposing point guard is getting into the paint, it's an issue.

That doesn't mean that a player should never gamble.  However, it shouldn't be something that's happening four to six times per game, as Rondo acknowledged.

Obviously, Rondo's defense wasn't the biggest concern on the team, but it is something I'm glad to see addressed.  Rondo has the ability to be both disruptive *and* fundamentally sound, and I think we'll see that this season.

Yeah ... absolutely ... letting players go by on purpose, whatever the reason, is not a great habit to get into, and not a great way to approach defense.

[ManUp]

I think Rondo sometimes does a poor job moving his feet laterally. Sometimes he's easily beat off a change of direction because he's caught jumping(from side to side) instead of moving his feet. Most of the time he can get back into the play against quicker quards he sometimes can't. If he is unable to catch up he usually goes for the "back-tip".  Sometimes he goes for the steals sometimes he gets straight up beat and tries hoping to get lucky.

[HomeRunBaker]

I've noticed him do it twice in the current game @ Toronto. However, he only does it when he knows even if he gets beat, Perk or KG are behind him. This let's him somewhat hedge his bets I guess.

You also notice that he doesn't do this with great drivers. When against NO and Utah in last years home games, he was full on lockdown mode. I guess he plays to his competition.
This isn't uncommon though. Lebron often let's players drive passed him so he can get the surprise block. It depends on your competition.

Deron Williams went for 32/8 with 18 trips to the FT line as Rondo got himself into foul trouble that night against Utah in Boston......so i'm not pretty sure he wasn't on "lockdown mode" on that night.  Doc states what has been obvious to many over the past 3 years.

[GKC]

I've noticed him do it twice in the current game @ Toronto. However, he only does it when he knows even if he gets beat, Perk or KG are behind him. This let's him somewhat hedge his bets I guess.

You also notice that he doesn't do this with great drivers. When against NO and Utah in last years home games, he was full on lockdown mode. I guess he plays to his competition.
This isn't uncommon though. Lebron often let's players drive passed him so he can get the surprise block. It depends on your competition.

Deron Williams went for 32/8 with 18 trips to the FT line as Rondo got himself into foul trouble that night against Utah in Boston......so i'm not pretty sure he wasn't on "lockdown mode" on that night.  Doc states what has been obvious to many over the past 3 years.

Where are you getting your stats?

Not only did Rondo almost get a triple double that game (25 points, 9 rebounds, 8 assists), but he held Deron Williams to 15 points (5 points below his season average), 7 assists (2 below the season average) and 4 turnovers.

Deron Williams was also the one who fouled out guarding Rondo.

When Boston played @ Utah (the game KG got injured) Rondo held Deron Williams to 6/17 shooting

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AozFOsxqJOP9w6qPRgIQQs8aPaB4?gid=2009021926

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Arr59D_.SzmnRbnFykGy7loaPaB4?gid=2008121502

[GKC]

Notable Point Guards v Rondo this year.

Chris Paul
Boston @ NO: 13pts, 6-13, 5 assists, 3 TO
NO @ Boston: 20pts, 5-16, 14 assists, 3 TO

Chauncey Billups
Boston @ Denver: 3pts, 1-8, 5 assists, 4 TO
Denver @ Boston: 18pts, 6-12, 7 assists, 3 TO

Steve Nash
Boston @ Phoenix: 19pts, 8-20, 11 assists, 2 TO
Phoenix @ Boston: 12pts, 5-7, 8 assists, 5 TO

Tony Parker
San Antonio @ Boston: 7pts, 3-12, 7 assists, 1 TO
Boston @ San Antonio: 25pts, 12-23, 8 assists, 2 TO

Jason Kidd
Boston @ Dallas: 3pts, 1-8, 10 assists, 1 TO
Dallas @ Boston: 6pts, 2-7, 5 assists, 1 TO

---

Of all of the above, only Tony Parker (in a loss I might had) had a truly good game. The rest have all done well below par, either having a poor shooting game or a poor turnover game. Rondo must have some part in this.

Celtics Hub did a great article on Rondo holding his opposing PG's to way below their average standard. I get that he can improve, but there's no need for Rivers to be harping about it to the media especially since the vote by the GM's may have been deserved

[HomeRunBaker]

I've noticed him do it twice in the current game @ Toronto. However, he only does it when he knows even if he gets beat, Perk or KG are behind him. This let's him somewhat hedge his bets I guess.

You also notice that he doesn't do this with great drivers. When against NO and Utah in last years home games, he was full on lockdown mode. I guess he plays to his competition.
This isn't uncommon though. Lebron often let's players drive passed him so he can get the surprise block. It depends on your competition.

Deron Williams went for 32/8 with 18 trips to the FT line as Rondo got himself into foul trouble that night against Utah in Boston......so i'm not pretty sure he wasn't on "lockdown mode" on that night.  Doc states what has been obvious to many over the past 3 years.

Where are you getting your stats?

Not only did Rondo almost get a triple double that game (25 points, 9 rebounds, 8 assists), but he held Deron Williams to 15 points (5 points below his season average), 7 assists (2 below the season average) and 4 turnovers.

Deron Williams was also the one who fouled out guarding Rondo.

When Boston played @ Utah (the game KG got injured) Rondo held Deron Williams to 6/17 shooting

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=AozFOsxqJOP9w6qPRgIQQs8aPaB4?gid=2009021926

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore;_ylt=Arr59D_.SzmnRbnFykGy7loaPaB4?gid=2008121502

My bad. That was the previous season when Deron went off.

[Roy Hobbs]

Notable Point Guards v Rondo this year.

Chris Paul
Boston @ NO: 13pts, 6-13, 5 assists, 3 TO
NO @ Boston: 20pts, 5-16, 14 assists, 3 TO

Chauncey Billups
Boston @ Denver: 3pts, 1-8, 5 assists, 4 TO
Denver @ Boston: 18pts, 6-12, 7 assists, 3 TO

Steve Nash
Boston @ Phoenix: 19pts, 8-20, 11 assists, 2 TO
Phoenix @ Boston: 12pts, 5-7, 8 assists, 5 TO

Tony Parker
San Antonio @ Boston: 7pts, 3-12, 7 assists, 1 TO
Boston @ San Antonio: 25pts, 12-23, 8 assists, 2 TO

Jason Kidd
Boston @ Dallas: 3pts, 1-8, 10 assists, 1 TO
Dallas @ Boston: 6pts, 2-7, 5 assists, 1 TO

---

Of all of the above, only Tony Parker (in a loss I might had) had a truly good game. The rest have all done well below par, either having a poor shooting game or a poor turnover game. Rondo must have some part in this.

Celtics Hub did a great article on Rondo holding his opposing PG's to way below their average standard. I get that he can improve, but there's no need for Rivers to be harping about it to the media especially since the vote by the GM's may have been deserved

You forgot T.J. Ford.

[Rondo2287]

Notable Point Guards v Rondo this year.

Chris Paul
Boston @ NO: 13pts, 6-13, 5 assists, 3 TO
NO @ Boston: 20pts, 5-16, 14 assists, 3 TO

Chauncey Billups
Boston @ Denver: 3pts, 1-8, 5 assists, 4 TO
Denver @ Boston: 18pts, 6-12, 7 assists, 3 TO

Steve Nash
Boston @ Phoenix: 19pts, 8-20, 11 assists, 2 TO
Phoenix @ Boston: 12pts, 5-7, 8 assists, 5 TO

Tony Parker
San Antonio @ Boston: 7pts, 3-12, 7 assists, 1 TO
Boston @ San Antonio: 25pts, 12-23, 8 assists, 2 TO

Jason Kidd
Boston @ Dallas: 3pts, 1-8, 10 assists, 1 TO
Dallas @ Boston: 6pts, 2-7, 5 assists, 1 TO

---

Of all of the above, only Tony Parker (in a loss I might had) had a truly good game. The rest have all done well below par, either having a poor shooting game or a poor turnover game. Rondo must have some part in this.

Celtics Hub did a great article on Rondo holding his opposing PG's to way below their average standard. I get that he can improve, but there's no need for Rivers to be harping about it to the media especially since the vote by the GM's may have been deserved

You forgot T.J. Ford.

While his shooting was off, 20 pts and 14 assits is a pretty good night from CP3.  However, I liken this to how Manny used to purposefully look foolish on swings to try to get the pitcher to throw it again.  Its all about trying to set up the game to play in your advantage and I dont really have any problem with it.

[Roy Hobbs]

Its all about trying to set up the game to play in your advantage and I dont really have any problem with it.

Isn't the thing that really matters that *Doc* had a problem with it?  I mean, Rondo is admitting that it wasn't the proper thing to do here.

The Celtics philosophy is to never put yourself in a poor position to give up easy points.  Steals are nice, but a good fundamental defensive stance that results in a stop is just as effective, and leads to a negative result less often.

Now, I suppose there's a debate whether Rondo was doing this just to boost his stats or not -- and I can see that being a little more contentious -- but as for the issue of whether he should be gambling six times per game, the answer is no (at least according to both Doc and Rondo).

[Fafnir]

I don't think Rondo was just doing it to boost his stats. I remember them talking about him doing it a ton in college/high school. I think it was just how he played, bad habits are hard to break. Especially when you're so [dang] good overall....

[Chris]

I really don't think Rondo was just looking to improve his stats (for one thing, when he pokes the ball away, ussually he is not the one credited with the steal, it is the person who catches the ball).  I think he is just hard-headed, and had convinced himself that he can help his team more by making big plays like that, than by staying in front of his man.  The fact that he seems to be understanding what Doc has been telling him about it, shows that he is starting to mature.

What will be interesting will be to see if he also continues to go hard after offensive rebounds, which Doc has also talked about hurting the team more than helping the team.

[Roy Hobbs]

I really don't think Rondo was just looking to improve his stats (for one thing, when he pokes the ball away, ussually he is not the one credited with the steal, it is the person who catches the ball).  I think he is just hard-headed, and had convinced himself that he can help his team more by making big plays like that, than by staying in front of his man.  The fact that he seems to be understanding what Doc has been telling him about it, shows that he is starting to mature.

I agree.

As for offensive rebounds, those are trickier, I think.  Doc obviously sees more of the team than I do, but I think Rondo's rebounding is generally a plus; I can't think of a ton of examples where our transition defense really suffered because he went for an offensive board. 

From observation, I've seen Rondo crashing the defensive boards as more of a problem; our transition offense works best when the bigs rebound, and pass the ball up the floor to Rondo.  There were a couple of times in the playoffs where Rondo seemed to be fighting his own guys for rebounds, which doesn't really work.

[Chris]

I really don't think Rondo was just looking to improve his stats (for one thing, when he pokes the ball away, ussually he is not the one credited with the steal, it is the person who catches the ball).  I think he is just hard-headed, and had convinced himself that he can help his team more by making big plays like that, than by staying in front of his man.  The fact that he seems to be understanding what Doc has been telling him about it, shows that he is starting to mature.

I agree.

As for offensive rebounds, those are trickier, I think.  Doc obviously sees more of the team than I do, but I think Rondo's rebounding is generally a plus; I can't think of a ton of examples where our transition defense really suffered because he went for an offensive board. 

From observation, I've seen Rondo crashing the defensive boards as more of a problem; our transition offense works best when the bigs rebound, and pass the ball up the floor to Rondo.  There were a couple of times in the playoffs where Rondo seemed to be fighting his own guys for rebounds, which doesn't really work.

Honestly, I think Doc dislike's Rondo's crashing the offensive boards more in theory than in practice.  I don't think it actually hurts them much, mainly because the team is so good overall, and the rest of the team is smart enough to cover for him.  However, it is a terrible habit for a PG to get into, since he is neglecting his responsibility to be the last line of defense to prevent a fast-break the other way.  But I think you are right (and Doc would probably admit it too, if you gave him truth serum...he just gets caught up in being too much of a coach sometimes).