How do the Sox improve this off-season?

[Rondo2287]

lots of internet people are suggesting trading pap.  it doesnt make it a good idea.  prior to this year, he had never given up a run in the playoffs. maybe in a year (if Bard continues to progress), but I wouldnt feel as comfortable with Wagner, or Bard, or someone else back there...

The Felix trade would be amazing - but I dont think Theo will give up the prospects (I think it was rumored to be basically 6 of our top 10 - including Buch)

I would like to see the Sox make a push to get Gonzalez, who would really do some damage out of PETCO.  not only that, but it instantly improves our D by removing the corpse of Mike Lowell...

And in the fantasy column, I'd like to see the Sox kick the tires on Hanley Ramirez again...who knows, maybe (very doubtful) they could pry him away.  Hanley hasnt played SS in a long time.  that is a delusion.  if they got him, he would likely be in the OF.



Unrelated - since June 5th, Ortiz led the league in HR's and hit hit .266/.350/.557.  (he was awful in the playoffs, i know).  but it makes you wonder, does he have one more season left?

Im not saying pap is a good idea, but he is somebody that could help bring in an impact bat so the possibility cant be ignored.  The Felix thing would be amazing I agree.  And although it would cost a great deal of a our prospects, the sox tried real hard at the deadline and lets face it, the guy is a stud who is only 23 or 24.  Thats the kind of guy who is absolutely worth giving up the young guys for.  

[yall hate]

Billy Wagner is likely to retire...

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/123012-wagner-to-retire-before-400th-save?cnn=yes

[Chris]

lots of internet people are suggesting trading pap.  it doesnt make it a good idea.  prior to this year, he had never given up a run in the playoffs. maybe in a year (if Bard continues to progress), but I wouldnt feel as comfortable with Wagner, or Bard, or someone else back there...

The Felix trade would be amazing - but I dont think Theo will give up the prospects (I think it was rumored to be basically 6 of our top 10 - including Buch)

I would like to see the Sox make a push to get Gonzalez, who would really do some damage out of PETCO.  not only that, but it instantly improves our D by removing the corpse of Mike Lowell...

And in the fantasy column, I'd like to see the Sox kick the tires on Hanley Ramirez again...who knows, maybe (very doubtful) they could pry him away.  Hanley hasnt played SS in a long time.  that is a delusion.  if they got him, he would likely be in the OF.



Unrelated - since June 5th, Ortiz led the league in HR's and hit hit .266/.350/.557.  (he was awful in the playoffs, i know).  but it makes you wonder, does he have one more season left?

Im not saying pap is a good idea, but he is somebody that could help bring in an impact bat so the possibility cant be ignored.  The Felix thing would be amazing I agree.  And although it would cost a great deal of a our prospects, the sox tried real hard at the deadline and lets face it, the guy is a stud who is only 23 or 24.  Thats the kind of guy who is absolutely worth giving up the young guys for.  

Yeah, I agree that they need to explore the possibilities of trading Papelbon.  It is only worth it if they can make it part of a deal that brings back a truly elite player, but they will never know if this is possible without trying. 

[Rondo2287]

lots of internet people are suggesting trading pap.  it doesnt make it a good idea.  prior to this year, he had never given up a run in the playoffs. maybe in a year (if Bard continues to progress), but I wouldnt feel as comfortable with Wagner, or Bard, or someone else back there...

The Felix trade would be amazing - but I dont think Theo will give up the prospects (I think it was rumored to be basically 6 of our top 10 - including Buch)

I would like to see the Sox make a push to get Gonzalez, who would really do some damage out of PETCO.  not only that, but it instantly improves our D by removing the corpse of Mike Lowell...

And in the fantasy column, I'd like to see the Sox kick the tires on Hanley Ramirez again...who knows, maybe (very doubtful) they could pry him away.  Hanley hasnt played SS in a long time.  that is a delusion.  if they got him, he would likely be in the OF.



Unrelated - since June 5th, Ortiz led the league in HR's and hit hit .266/.350/.557.  (he was awful in the playoffs, i know).  but it makes you wonder, does he have one more season left?

Im not saying pap is a good idea, but he is somebody that could help bring in an impact bat so the possibility cant be ignored.  The Felix thing would be amazing I agree.  And although it would cost a great deal of a our prospects, the sox tried real hard at the deadline and lets face it, the guy is a stud who is only 23 or 24.  Thats the kind of guy who is absolutely worth giving up the young guys for.  

Yeah, I agree that they need to explore the possibilities of trading Papelbon.  It is only worth it if they can make it part of a deal that brings back a truly elite player, but they will never know if this is possible without trying. 

I think its going to come out this offseason that alot of guys are included in trade talks, just like hearing the celts were talking about trading Rondo.  Its one of those, lots of trades are floating out there, if Theo didnt at least look into them he wouldnt be doing his job.  Even if he isnt seriously considering making the move, I think investigating it is at least worth it.

[Rondo2287]

I Think for Prince I might do

Buccholz
Kelly
Anderson

Besides Gaillardo, they really have no starting pitching.  Obviously im not a GM, but the Sox originally said Kelly was untouchable, but in this deal I think they would move him.  Bucc has increased his stock greatly with his performance this year I think, and while Anderson wasnt great this year, he is still pretty highly touted and a young guy that could be groomed to fill the Enormous hole that Prince is leaving. 

[Bankshot]

Don't talk to me about Jason Bay.  He had a career year against bozos in a right hand hitter's park, but disappeared in the playoffs.

Bay isnt Manny, but you are selling him way short. First off it wasn't a career year, he had higher OPS in 2005 and 2006, and a higher OPS+ in 2006/2006 and last year combined between the Pirates and here. He had a tough playoff series against the Angels this year, but last year he hit .341 and had a 1.105 OPS in the 11 playoff games. He is a VERY good hitter who was at his best in clutch situations all season, the 3 playoff games in a pretty SSS to judge him on.

I do not think he's selling him short.  He couldn't hit good pitching.  Against guys who had an ERA below 3.5, he hit .204.  This excerpt is from yahoo sports.

"The Red Sox lineup, loaded with All-Stars, has not put up numbers against superior pitching. David Ortiz is at .208, five and 15. Four other of Boston’s best hitters are at .220 or lower: Jason Bay (.204), Kevin Youkilis(notes) (.204), Dustin Pedroia(notes) (.206) and Victor Martinez(notes) (.220). Catcher Jason Varitek(notes) is batting .139."

This is the reason why the Red Sox lost.  We needed a game changer.  These guys hit bad pitching, but they are not going to go out and get to the studs of the league.  That's what Manny did when he was here.  Also, against guys with an ERA lower then 3.5, Matt Holliday hit .352, say all you want about the guy, but he hit good pitching this year.  At least Manny has hit about .280 against the good pitchers.

You can read the article here http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ge-fullcount092909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I actually found it pretty interesting.

That's because they are not "elite" hitters.  The Sox traded the only "elite" bat they had (Manny).  Now Manny is still playing while the Red Sox are not.   We need a Miguel Cabrera type, A real elite hitter and another starting pitcher (Halliday(sp) or Hernandez maybe?).

[MBz]

I do not think he's selling him short.  He couldn't hit good pitching.  Against guys who had an ERA below 3.5, he hit .204.  This excerpt is from yahoo sports.

"The Red Sox lineup, loaded with All-Stars, has not put up numbers against superior pitching. David Ortiz is at .208, five and 15. Four other of Boston’s best hitters are at .220 or lower: Jason Bay (.204), Kevin Youkilis(notes) (.204), Dustin Pedroia(notes) (.206) and Victor Martinez(notes) (.220). Catcher Jason Varitek(notes) is batting .139."

This is the reason why the Red Sox lost.  We needed a game changer.  These guys hit bad pitching, but they are not going to go out and get to the studs of the league.  That's what Manny did when he was here.  Also, against guys with an ERA lower then 3.5, Matt Holliday hit .352, say all you want about the guy, but he hit good pitching this year.  At least Manny has hit about .280 against the good pitchers.

You can read the article here http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ge-fullcount092909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I actually found it pretty interesting.

what is the sample size they are looking at for Bay?  is this in the playoffs or the whole season?  the article doesnt say, but it clearly makes a difference.  Based on the others on that list, I assume they were talking about the playoffs, but that is a guess.


The problem with Holliday is that his defense is no better than Bay's and there are real questions about whether he can hit in the AL.  His time in Oakland wasnt exactly pretty.  Bay can and has hit here.  Sure, he is streaky and will look like the worst player on the field at times (well, as long as Tek is no where near it), but he also looks like the best at times.  I bet the Sox get it done with Bay

It's his regular season numbers against pitchers whom have an ERA below 3.5.  I do not know how many at bats that is, but I'm guessing somewhere in the area of 140, which is what the other guys had.

[yall hate]

It's his regular season numbers against pitchers whom have an ERA below 3.5.  I do not know how many at bats that is, but I'm guessing somewhere in the area of 140, which is what the other guys had.

If true (that it is all regular season numbers), than what that says to me is that the sox have a serious problem.  there 'best' players are on that list.  youk, pedroia, vmart...thats what concerns me on that list, not bay.

[MBz]

It's his regular season numbers against pitchers whom have an ERA below 3.5.  I do not know how many at bats that is, but I'm guessing somewhere in the area of 140, which is what the other guys had.

If true (that it is all regular season numbers), than what that says to me is that the sox have a serious problem.  there 'best' players are on that list.  youk, pedroia, vmart...thats what concerns me on that list, not bay.

Well they all concert me, but Bay is the free agent right now.  The rest will 100% be here next year, my argument was more that Bay did not replace Manny, and was not even close to replacing Manny and thats why the Sox did not win this year or last year.  I'm not really saying it's Bay's fault, but more managements.

[yall hate]

It's his regular season numbers against pitchers whom have an ERA below 3.5.  I do not know how many at bats that is, but I'm guessing somewhere in the area of 140, which is what the other guys had.

If true (that it is all regular season numbers), than what that says to me is that the sox have a serious problem.  there 'best' players are on that list.  youk, pedroia, vmart...thats what concerns me on that list, not bay.

Well they all concert me, but Bay is the free agent right now.  The rest will 100% be here next year, my argument was more that Bay did not replace Manny, and was not even close to replacing Manny and thats why the Sox did not win this year or last year.  I'm not really saying it's Bay's fault, but more managements.

But what I am saying is if their core players cant hit good pitchers, then there is a bigger problem than one that Manny, or pujols or anyone could solve.

I think trying to compare Bay and Manny is pretty useless at this point.  When the deal was made, we knew Bay wouldnt replace Manny.  but we didnt have any other option.  We got a guy that hit 36 (?) homer's and 119 (?) rbi's.  He can hit, he is just streaky. 


And are we really sure Holliday (who is, along with Bay the top options at OF this offseason) could contribute more to this team?  His avg jumped 70 points when he went from AL to NL.  he hit more homers in 2/3 the games in the nl then he did in the al.

Frankly, in his half season plus in the AL, holliday didnt look that good.  We know what Bay can do in the AL.

[speedster]

I'd love to see Bobby Abreu in this lineup, even as a replacement for Bay (who I don't think the Red Sox will overpay for).  Abreu has less power, but he consistently gets on base, works the opposing pitchers, has speed, and probably wouldn't require a long-term deal.

Chone Figgins is another free agent that I'd be interested in.  Great speed and gets on base.  He could play 3rd and put Ortiz and Lowell into a L/R DH/pinch hitter platoon.

I'd also do a deal for Felix Hernandez, even if it meant giving up both Buchholz and Papelbon.  He's a great pitcher who's just reaching his prime.  Hernandez could be the top pitcher in baseball for the next decade.

[yall hate]

I'd love to see Bobby Abreu in this lineup, even as a replacement for Bay (who I don't think the Red Sox will overpay for).  Abreu has less power, but he consistently gets on base, works the opposing pitchers, has speed, and probably wouldn't require a long-term deal.

Chone Figgins is another free agent that I'd be interested in.  Great speed and gets on base.  He could play 3rd and put Ortiz and Lowell into a L/R DH/pinch hitter platoon.

I'd also do a deal for Felix Hernandez, even if it meant giving up both Buchholz and Papelbon.  He's a great pitcher who's just reaching his prime.  Hernandez could be the top pitcher in baseball for the next decade.

Yea Abreu would be nice - but I doubt he would take a one year deal (I am sure LA will offer him that), and I cant imagine us giving him two years +. 


I think figgins is going to be way overpaid.  if we didnt have Jacoby, I'd say go for it, but I dont think he fits with the team with his amazing lack of power. 

[winsomme]

just summing up my thoughts from the Felix thread....

I think we should overpay if we have to to get Hanley...(Buch, Youk + another top prospect IMO would do it...Youk could fit right in Hanley's spot in FLA order and they would get a top of the rotation in Buch..he would tear up the NL).

re-sign Bay
and sign Ben Sheets as a FA.

order

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Victor
Hanley
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Lowell
Varitek (i like VM at first because he hits better when he's not catching)

staff

Beckett
Lester
Sheets
DiceK
Wake

bullpen (essentially the same as last year with tweaks)

[Quinn]

just summing up my thoughts from the Felix thread....

I think we should overpay if we have to to get Hanley...(Buch, Youk + another top prospect IMO would do it...Youk could fit right in Hanley's spot in FLA order and they would get a top of the rotation in Buch..he would tear up the NL).

re-sign Bay
and sign Ben Sheets as a FA.

order

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Victor
Hanley
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Lowell
Varitek (i like VM at first because he hits better when he's not catching)

staff

Beckett
Lester
Sheets
DiceK
Wake

bullpen (essentially the same as last year with tweaks)

I love youk, but this would be worth it.

[yall hate]

just summing up my thoughts from the Felix thread....

I think we should overpay if we have to to get Hanley...(Buch, Youk + another top prospect IMO would do it...Youk could fit right in Hanley's spot in FLA order and they would get a top of the rotation in Buch..he would tear up the NL).

re-sign Bay
and sign Ben Sheets as a FA.

order

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Victor
Hanley
Ortiz
Bay
Drew
Lowell
Varitek (i like VM at first because he hits better when he's not catching)

staff

Beckett
Lester
Sheets
DiceK
Wake

bullpen (essentially the same as last year with tweaks)

The sox already said that VMart will be the full time catcher next year.


I also worry that your lineup defensively would be awful. Lowell's range is horrible, Tek can't throw me out, VMart is ok at first, but not great, etc...