How do the Sox improve this off-season?

[yall hate]

Matt Holliday?
I know he's an outfielder, but if we can't resign Bay, he'd be an EXCELLENT option, and he'd fill out our lineup really well.

Doubt it...Look for the Yanks to give him a monster deal

One can dream...
There aren't any stud free agent starters, which is the problem


John Lackey.
but he's old.

I am not sure they will be looking for a starter (at least not a hight priced one)

Beckett
Lester
DiceK
Buch
(fill in - Wake said he will be back, so it may be him, it may be Bowden, it may be some other old guy a la Smoltz that they take a shot at)

[MBz]

Matt Holliday?
I know he's an outfielder, but if we can't resign Bay, he'd be an EXCELLENT option, and he'd fill out our lineup really well.

Doubt it...Look for the Yanks to give him a monster deal

Agreed, expect him to make 20 mil or so.

[hpantazo]

any chance the red sox can go after hanley ramirez? Maybe they can give back Beckett and Lowell?

[Brickowski]

Thye used to have two sluggers in the middle of the lineup who hit 35-50 HRs a year and drove in 120 runs.  Guys like Youkilis were hitting sixth.

With an ineffective Big Papi and the departure of Manny Ramirez, their lineup doesn't scare anyone anymore.  Don't talk to me about Jason Bay.  He had a career year against bozos in a right hand hitter's park, but disappeared in the playoffs.

They've got two catchers, neither of whom can catch, and only one of them can hit (and ought to be playing first base). The shortstop position was a mess.  Orlando Cabrera, anyone?

Also, their bullpen was inconsistent, starting with DelCarmen, who pitched like crap.  And without Tim Wakefield eating innings, the back end of the staff looked pretty thin.

Newsflash:  It's going to get worse before it gets better unless they can sign someone like Joe Maurer, and for that they'll have to put in extra seats that float above the outfield on balloons, so as to have enough money to pay him.

[Bahku]

Thye used to have two sluggers in the middle of the lineup who hit 35-50 HRs a year and drove in 120 runs.  Guys like Youkilis were hitting sixth.

With an ineffective Big Papi and the departure of Manny Ramirez, their lineup doesn't scare anyone anymore.  Don't talk to me about Jason Bay.  He had a career year against bozos in a right hand hitter's park, but disappeared in the playoffs.

They've got two catchers, neither of whom can catch, and only one of them can hit (and ought to be playing first base). The shortstop position was a mess.  Orlando Cabrera, anyone?

Also, their bullpen was inconsistent, starting with DelCarmen, who piched like crap.  And without Tim Wakefield eating innings, the back end of the staff looked pretty thin.

Newsflash:  It's going to get worse before it gets better unless they can sign someone like Joe Maurer, and for that they'll have to put in extra seats that float above the outfield on balloons, so as to have enough mony to pay him.

Sadly, (despite my "half-full" outlook when it comes to sports), I fear you may be right. At this point, and with the limited options available, next year is not looking too great. (Crosses fingers yet again).

[Big_Matt34]

Don't talk to me about Jason Bay.  He had a career year against bozos in a right hand hitter's park, but disappeared in the playoffs.

Bay isnt Manny, but you are selling him way short. First off it wasn't a career year, he had higher OPS in 2005 and 2006, and a higher OPS+ in 2006/2006 and last year combined between the Pirates and here. He had a tough playoff series against the Angels this year, but last year he hit .341 and had a 1.105 OPS in the 11 playoff games. He is a VERY good hitter who was at his best in clutch situations all season, the 3 playoff games in a pretty SSS to judge him on.

[celticsclay]

I would rather have Holliday

[Big_Matt34]

I think Holliday would be fine here, but i prefer keeping the guy who has proven he can succeed here. Not everyone can thrive here, and it'd be a bit scary giving Holliday 15+ million over 4 or 5 years when he was only slightly above average in his short time in the AL.

If they can't re-sign Bay i'd hope they get Holliday, but like Yall Hate said id be very suprised if he isn't a Yankee next year.

[MBz]

Don't talk to me about Jason Bay.  He had a career year against bozos in a right hand hitter's park, but disappeared in the playoffs.

Bay isnt Manny, but you are selling him way short. First off it wasn't a career year, he had higher OPS in 2005 and 2006, and a higher OPS+ in 2006/2006 and last year combined between the Pirates and here. He had a tough playoff series against the Angels this year, but last year he hit .341 and had a 1.105 OPS in the 11 playoff games. He is a VERY good hitter who was at his best in clutch situations all season, the 3 playoff games in a pretty SSS to judge him on.

I do not think he's selling him short.  He couldn't hit good pitching.  Against guys who had an ERA below 3.5, he hit .204.  This excerpt is from yahoo sports.

"The Red Sox lineup, loaded with All-Stars, has not put up numbers against superior pitching. David Ortiz is at .208, five and 15. Four other of Boston’s best hitters are at .220 or lower: Jason Bay (.204), Kevin Youkilis(notes) (.204), Dustin Pedroia(notes) (.206) and Victor Martinez(notes) (.220). Catcher Jason Varitek(notes) is batting .139."

This is the reason why the Red Sox lost.  We needed a game changer.  These guys hit bad pitching, but they are not going to go out and get to the studs of the league.  That's what Manny did when he was here.  Also, against guys with an ERA lower then 3.5, Matt Holliday hit .352, say all you want about the guy, but he hit good pitching this year.  At least Manny has hit about .280 against the good pitchers.

You can read the article here http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ge-fullcount092909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I actually found it pretty interesting.

[Big_Matt34]

Well i said Bay isnt Manny, he isn't an elite hitter but a good to very good one IMO. I must say even im suprised at how much Youkilis/Victor/Pedroia struggled against top pitchers, figured those 3 would be better than that. I agree they need another big bat even if they keep Bay or get Holliday, but Manny types don't exactly come along too often. I like Holliday, but i'd be nervous about giving him a huge deal, and don't see him as the game changing type anyways.

What worries me is while they need a big bat, they are locked into players at a majority of the positions. They will try to get Bay or Holliday for LF, and a new third basemen would be nice whether by getting a big 1b bat/moving Youk there fulltime or aquiring another one. Great hitting SS's are as rare as it gets, Drew/Ellsbury/Youk/Pedroia/Victor aren't going anywhere and i don't think they will pay Ortiz to sit on the bench, so i don't see where they can really upgrade. It greatly concerns me that the offense will have all the same problems next year which is a scary thought.

[yall hate]

I do not think he's selling him short.  He couldn't hit good pitching.  Against guys who had an ERA below 3.5, he hit .204.  This excerpt is from yahoo sports.

"The Red Sox lineup, loaded with All-Stars, has not put up numbers against superior pitching. David Ortiz is at .208, five and 15. Four other of Boston’s best hitters are at .220 or lower: Jason Bay (.204), Kevin Youkilis(notes) (.204), Dustin Pedroia(notes) (.206) and Victor Martinez(notes) (.220). Catcher Jason Varitek(notes) is batting .139."

This is the reason why the Red Sox lost.  We needed a game changer.  These guys hit bad pitching, but they are not going to go out and get to the studs of the league.  That's what Manny did when he was here.  Also, against guys with an ERA lower then 3.5, Matt Holliday hit .352, say all you want about the guy, but he hit good pitching this year.  At least Manny has hit about .280 against the good pitchers.

You can read the article here http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ge-fullcount092909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I actually found it pretty interesting.

what is the sample size they are looking at for Bay?  is this in the playoffs or the whole season?  the article doesnt say, but it clearly makes a difference.  Based on the others on that list, I assume they were talking about the playoffs, but that is a guess.


The problem with Holliday is that his defense is no better than Bay's and there are real questions about whether he can hit in the AL.  His time in Oakland wasnt exactly pretty.  Bay can and has hit here.  Sure, he is streaky and will look like the worst player on the field at times (well, as long as Tek is no where near it), but he also looks like the best at times.  I bet the Sox get it done with Bay

[Rondo2287]

Yesterday on the sports hub, they were entertaining the idea of trading papelbon or some of our pitching surpluss for an impact bat.  And theo said yesterday that he wants to revisit the King Felix and Gonzalez trade talks, so we will see, should be an interesting offseason

[Rondo2287]

There was the usual Hanley talk to play shortstop, Holliday talk, Bay Talk, Gonzo talk.  The one name that I heard that I would love was Prince Fielder.  The guy has two years left, and Mazz said the feeling around Milwaukee was that they couldnt sign him.  He plays a serviceable first base, and is an absolute beast. 

[yall hate]

lots of internet people are suggesting trading pap.  it doesnt make it a good idea.  prior to this year, he had never given up a run in the playoffs. maybe in a year (if Bard continues to progress), but I wouldnt feel as comfortable with Wagner, or Bard, or someone else back there...

The Felix trade would be amazing - but I dont think Theo will give up the prospects (I think it was rumored to be basically 6 of our top 10 - including Buch)

I would like to see the Sox make a push to get Gonzalez, who would really do some damage out of PETCO.  not only that, but it instantly improves our D by removing the corpse of Mike Lowell...

And in the fantasy column, I'd like to see the Sox kick the tires on Hanley Ramirez again...who knows, maybe (very doubtful) they could pry him away. 

Edit: does Hanley still play SS?  I thought he was basically full time OF...?



Unrelated - since June 5th, Ortiz led the league in HR's and hit hit .266/.350/.557.  (he was awful in the playoffs, i know).  but it makes you wonder, does he have one more season left?

[Chris]

There was the usual Hanley talk to play shortstop, Holliday talk, Bay Talk, Gonzo talk.  The one name that I heard that I would love was Prince Fielder.  The guy has two years left, and Mazz said the feeling around Milwaukee was that they couldnt sign him.  He plays a serviceable first base, and is an absolute beast. 

Yeah, Fielder is at the top of my list as well.  It would probably take a package of Anderson, Kelly, and a couple other highly rated prospects, but I think he is worth it.