Best Passing Center Ever?

[lon3lytoaster]

Cmon stats fiends: everyone's posting APG.  How about TOPG?  Ast/TO ratios?

Vlade turned the ball over 2.2 times a games over his career, with his 3.1 APG. So subtract the turnovers and you get .9 assists a game.

Bill Walton turned the ball over 2.7 times a game

Sabonis turned it over 1.8 times a game

Stats for turnovers aren't available for Bill Russell or Wilt.

[Jay G]

Russell an Unseld were great passing centers too...

[Fafnir]

Cmon stats fiends: everyone's posting APG.  How about TOPG?  Ast/TO ratios?

Vlade turned the ball over 2.2 times a games over his career, with his 3.1 APG. So subtract the turnovers and you get .9 assists a game.

Bill Walton turned the ball over 2.7 times a game

Sabonis turned it over 1.8 times a game

Stats for turnovers aren't available for Bill Russell or Wilt.

That is not a good measure for passing. A lot of those turn overs would have come in the post on strips, or travels, etc....

[Fafnir]

I'd put Walton at one and Sabonis at two. Of player's who I've watched a lot of in my life it'd be Shaq.

[star18]

I'd go with 1. Wilt 4.44 2.Bill Russell 4.26 3. Garnett 4.30, just because they have the highest career APG.    Even though Garnett is listed at Foward, only Wilt, Garnett & Kareem are the only guys over 6'11 to even average over 3.2 APG for their career so they have to be way up there on the list.
However per 36 minutes I haven't found anyone with better numbers than Walton at 4.3 which is higher than Wilt, Russell, Garnett & Kareem.
So its basically Celtics, Celtics, Celtics, with a couple of Lakers mixed in there.

[Fafnir]

I'd go with 1. Wilt 4.44 2.Bill Russell 4.26 3. Garnett 4.30, just because they have the highest career APG.    Even though Garnett is listed at Foward, only Wilt, Garnett & Kareem are the only guys over 6'11 to even average over 3.2 APG for their career so they have to be way up there on the list.
However per 36 minutes I haven't found anyone with better numbers than Walton at 4.3 which is higher than Wilt, Russell, Garnett & Kareem.
So its basically Celtics, Celtics, Celtics, with a couple of Lakers mixed in there.

You have to consider pace and percentage of the possession they used on offense.

I can't put Wilt up there because of the amount of time the ball was stuck in his hands.

[Spilling Green Dye]

Of all players I've seen, definitely Sabonis. 

[moiso]

1. Sabonis  2. Walton  3. Divac

[liam]

Of all players I've seen, definitely Sabonis. 

I also say Sabonis. I wish he could've played here in his prime. He might be in the discussion of best all time.

[Edgar]

Of all players I've seen, definitely Sabonis. 

I also say Sabonis. I wish he could've played here in his prime. He might be in the discussion of best all time.

yup

sabonis..

By far far far far and more most people think

[HomeRunBaker]

Of all players I've seen, definitely Sabonis. 

I also say Sabonis. I wish he could've played here in his prime. He might be in the discussion of best all time.

Agreed!  Sabonis in a landslide....the discussion should be for 2nd best which is where you can jumble up the Divacs, Jabbars, Shaqs, Adams', Waltons, Sikmas, Russells, Cowens, Sam Laceys, etc......pretty much any way you want and make an argument. 

For those who don't know.....Sabonis entered the NBA at age 31 after he has already suffered numerous injuries including tearing his achilles and knee (twice if i'm not mistaken).  By the time he won Rookie of the Year he was already a shell of his former self physically and had lost much of his agility yet that didn't stop him from being an excellent player on some very good Blazer teams.

[Neurotic Guy]

Of all players I've seen, definitely Sabonis. 

I also say Sabonis. I wish he could've played here in his prime. He might be in the discussion of best all time.

Agreed!  Sabonis in a landslide....the discussion should be for 2nd best which is where you can jumble up the Divacs, Jabbars, Shaqs, Adams', Waltons, Sikmas, Russells, Cowens, Sam Laceys, etc......pretty much any way you want and make an argument. 

For those who don't know.....Sabonis entered the NBA at age 31 after he has already suffered numerous injuries including tearing his achilles and knee (twice if i'm not mistaken).  By the time he won Rookie of the Year he was already a shell of his former self physically and had lost much of his agility yet that didn't stop him from being an excellent player on some very good Blazer teams.

I saw Sabonis play -- but not often since watching Portland on TV was a rarity.  By the time he left Russia, he was an old 31.  He was a smarter player at his position than anyone in the time period partly because he had to be -- and partly because he was trained to play smart ball probably since he was 10.  The only reason I would suggest that he not be a 'slam dunk' here is that we actually almost nothing of him prior to his NBA days except in the Olympics. You can't hold that against him, but you also can't hold that in his favor.  In other words, I have to go based on what I saw rather than the presumption, though possibly true, that he was an even better passer in his pre-NBA days (usually against much lesser competition).  I remember him being very smart with the ball, but that's how I recall Bill Walton (in college and in his prime).  Based on what I saw of him and Walton as passers -- I'd be tempted to take Walton.   

[freshinthehouse]

Thumbs up to the Brad Daugherty mention.  Dude was a great passer.

[Moranis]

Of all players I've seen, definitely Sabonis. 

I also say Sabonis. I wish he could've played here in his prime. He might be in the discussion of best all time.

Agreed!  Sabonis in a landslide....the discussion should be for 2nd best which is where you can jumble up the Divacs, Jabbars, Shaqs, Adams', Waltons, Sikmas, Russells, Cowens, Sam Laceys, etc......pretty much any way you want and make an argument. 

For those who don't know.....Sabonis entered the NBA at age 31 after he has already suffered numerous injuries including tearing his achilles and knee (twice if i'm not mistaken).  By the time he won Rookie of the Year he was already a shell of his former self physically and had lost much of his agility yet that didn't stop him from being an excellent player on some very good Blazer teams.

I saw Sabonis play -- but not often since watching Portland on TV was a rarity.  By the time he left Russia, he was an old 31.  He was a smarter player at his position than anyone in the time period partly because he had to be -- and partly because he was trained to play smart ball probably since he was 10.  The only reason I would suggest that he not be a 'slam dunk' here is that we actually almost nothing of him prior to his NBA days except in the Olympics. You can't hold that against him, but you also can't hold that in his favor.  In other words, I have to go based on what I saw rather than the presumption, though possibly true, that he was an even better passer in his pre-NBA days (usually against much lesser competition).  I remember him being very smart with the ball, but that's how I recall Bill Walton (in college and in his prime).  Based on what I saw of him and Walton as passers -- I'd be tempted to take Walton.   

The version we saw in the NBA was still very good, but he had lost almost all of his athleticism and mobility by that time from the knee injuries.  There were a few scouts that watched Sabonis play as an 18 year old kid and said he would have been without question the best basketball player to ever live had he not torn up his knee.  These scouts said he moved like PG, but muscled people around like a center.  He was a superb passer and shooter for a man his size.  And his overall technical skill was off the charts especially given his age.  I forget who the scouts were or where I read the article (it has been awhile), but watching him in his prime was supposedly a thing of beauty.  I really wish I had that chance. 

[Edgar]

thats my point

I remembeear to hear wonders about a rusian center ( i think it was still rusia by that time or urss) and a Brazilian foward.

Both

Sabonis and oscar where A M A Z I N G