JR Giddens out of the NBA after this season?

[HomeRunBaker]

Giddens is not an intelligent basketball player. He was lost when given minutes. Unless I see a drastic improvement this season, he probably won't have an NBA career beyond this year. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am.

Other than he was never given minutes. I can understand arguments people might make about coaches not thinking he might be ready to play on this level and such, but crap like "he was lost when given minutes" is complete nonsense as far as analyzing him as a player goes.

Uh what? Giddens didn't get minutes I'll agree, but the getting lost out there is a valid observation.

Valid but ridiculous and lacks a lot of context, like him being inserted in garbage time where there's ZERO discipline by pretty much all involved. He had a game where he played 5 minutes of garbage time and that's pretty much it. Too low of a sample. Yet, for a guy who was lost he went 2/3 with an assist, 3 rebounds. Drawing conclusions from those few minutes, when there's a larger body of work in other stages, is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

What is ridiculous is you stating that a player MUST be given playing time to determine whether they will make it in the league or not.  If you have a player that is completely lost in practice, doesn't understand your most basic defensive principles and wander aimlessly in your offensive sets without any natural feel for the NBA game......then you do not need (nor should this player deserve) to see him in a real live NBA game. 

We saw Gerald Green literally have to be coached by his teammates during games where to be on the floor as a young player.  It wasn't hard to figure that this kid had no clue how to play the game........i've seen it with Giddens last pre-season and got a glimpse of this with Lester Hudson thus far.  The icing on the cake is that Giddens had 5 years of college under his belt which leads me to believe he will never get it.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Giddens is not an intelligent basketball player. He was lost when given minutes. Unless I see a drastic improvement this season, he probably won't have an NBA career beyond this year. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am.

Other than he was never given minutes. I can understand arguments people might make about coaches not thinking he might be ready to play on this level and such, but crap like "he was lost when given minutes" is complete nonsense as far as analyzing him as a player goes.

Uh what? Giddens didn't get minutes I'll agree, but the getting lost out there is a valid observation.

Valid but ridiculous and lacks a lot of context, like him being inserted in garbage time where there's ZERO discipline by pretty much all involved. He had a game where he played 5 minutes of garbage time and that's pretty much it. Too low of a sample. Yet, for a guy who was lost he went 2/3 with an assist, 3 rebounds. Drawing conclusions from those few minutes, when there's a larger body of work in other stages, is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

What is ridiculous is you stating that a player MUST be given playing time to determine whether they will make it in the league or not.  If you have a player that is completely lost in practice, doesn't understand your most basic defensive principles and wander aimlessly in your offensive sets without any natural feel for the NBA game......then you do not need (nor should this player deserve) to see him in a real live NBA game.

Yet I have said no such things. Don't put words on my mouth. The only thing I said was that drawing conclusions based on "minutes" that he didn't get is complete crap.

[HomeRunBaker]

Giddens is not an intelligent basketball player. He was lost when given minutes. Unless I see a drastic improvement this season, he probably won't have an NBA career beyond this year. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am.

Other than he was never given minutes. I can understand arguments people might make about coaches not thinking he might be ready to play on this level and such, but crap like "he was lost when given minutes" is complete nonsense as far as analyzing him as a player goes.

Uh what? Giddens didn't get minutes I'll agree, but the getting lost out there is a valid observation.

Valid but ridiculous and lacks a lot of context, like him being inserted in garbage time where there's ZERO discipline by pretty much all involved. He had a game where he played 5 minutes of garbage time and that's pretty much it. Too low of a sample. Yet, for a guy who was lost he went 2/3 with an assist, 3 rebounds. Drawing conclusions from those few minutes, when there's a larger body of work in other stages, is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

What is ridiculous is you stating that a player MUST be given playing time to determine whether they will make it in the league or not.  If you have a player that is completely lost in practice, doesn't understand your most basic defensive principles and wander aimlessly in your offensive sets without any natural feel for the NBA game......then you do not need (nor should this player deserve) to see him in a real live NBA game.

Yet I have said no such things. Don't put words on my mouth. The only thing I said was that drawing conclusions based on "minutes" that he didn't get is complete crap.

But he did get minutes in the pre-season last year and was completely lost......which doesn't take into account the daily practice sessions which likely showed the same which is why he was sent to the NBDL on multiple occasions last year. Just because I didn't get "minutes" with the Celtics last season does it also mean that drawing conclusion about my ability to not succeed as an NBA player is complete crap? 

[Fafnir]

Giddens is not an intelligent basketball player. He was lost when given minutes. Unless I see a drastic improvement this season, he probably won't have an NBA career beyond this year. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am.

Other than he was never given minutes. I can understand arguments people might make about coaches not thinking he might be ready to play on this level and such, but crap like "he was lost when given minutes" is complete nonsense as far as analyzing him as a player goes.

Uh what? Giddens didn't get minutes I'll agree, but the getting lost out there is a valid observation.

Valid but ridiculous and lacks a lot of context, like him being inserted in garbage time where there's ZERO discipline by pretty much all involved. He had a game where he played 5 minutes of garbage time and that's pretty much it. Too low of a sample. Yet, for a guy who was lost he went 2/3 with an assist, 3 rebounds. Drawing conclusions from those few minutes, when there's a larger body of work in other stages, is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

What is ridiculous is you stating that a player MUST be given playing time to determine whether they will make it in the league or not.  If you have a player that is completely lost in practice, doesn't understand your most basic defensive principles and wander aimlessly in your offensive sets without any natural feel for the NBA game......then you do not need (nor should this player deserve) to see him in a real live NBA game.

Yet I have said no such things. Don't put words on my mouth. The only thing I said was that drawing conclusions based on "minutes" that he didn't get is complete crap.

Would you say it is fair to say that we can draw conclusions from the fact that he didn't get any minutes though?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Giddens is not an intelligent basketball player. He was lost when given minutes. Unless I see a drastic improvement this season, he probably won't have an NBA career beyond this year. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am.

Other than he was never given minutes. I can understand arguments people might make about coaches not thinking he might be ready to play on this level and such, but crap like "he was lost when given minutes" is complete nonsense as far as analyzing him as a player goes.

Uh what? Giddens didn't get minutes I'll agree, but the getting lost out there is a valid observation.

Valid but ridiculous and lacks a lot of context, like him being inserted in garbage time where there's ZERO discipline by pretty much all involved. He had a game where he played 5 minutes of garbage time and that's pretty much it. Too low of a sample. Yet, for a guy who was lost he went 2/3 with an assist, 3 rebounds. Drawing conclusions from those few minutes, when there's a larger body of work in other stages, is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

What is ridiculous is you stating that a player MUST be given playing time to determine whether they will make it in the league or not.  If you have a player that is completely lost in practice, doesn't understand your most basic defensive principles and wander aimlessly in your offensive sets without any natural feel for the NBA game......then you do not need (nor should this player deserve) to see him in a real live NBA game.

Yet I have said no such things. Don't put words on my mouth. The only thing I said was that drawing conclusions based on "minutes" that he didn't get is complete crap.

Would you say it is fair to say that we can draw conclusions from the fact that he didn't get any minutes though?

To an extent. The league is littered with players that get minutes over players that are better than them for whatever reason. But in this practice you're not really analyzing the player nor his skills... you're depending on the judgement of some other person with information we don't have available to us. He might be doing a poor job or he might be doing a good job at it. We can never now for sure until we actually see him in action or have access to the practices themselves.

Giddens is not an intelligent basketball player. He was lost when given minutes. Unless I see a drastic improvement this season, he probably won't have an NBA career beyond this year. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am.

Other than he was never given minutes. I can understand arguments people might make about coaches not thinking he might be ready to play on this level and such, but crap like "he was lost when given minutes" is complete nonsense as far as analyzing him as a player goes.

Uh what? Giddens didn't get minutes I'll agree, but the getting lost out there is a valid observation.

Valid but ridiculous and lacks a lot of context, like him being inserted in garbage time where there's ZERO discipline by pretty much all involved. He had a game where he played 5 minutes of garbage time and that's pretty much it. Too low of a sample. Yet, for a guy who was lost he went 2/3 with an assist, 3 rebounds. Drawing conclusions from those few minutes, when there's a larger body of work in other stages, is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

What is ridiculous is you stating that a player MUST be given playing time to determine whether they will make it in the league or not.  If you have a player that is completely lost in practice, doesn't understand your most basic defensive principles and wander aimlessly in your offensive sets without any natural feel for the NBA game......then you do not need (nor should this player deserve) to see him in a real live NBA game.

Yet I have said no such things. Don't put words on my mouth. The only thing I said was that drawing conclusions based on "minutes" that he didn't get is complete crap.

But he did get minutes in the pre-season last year and was completely lost......which doesn't take into account the daily practice sessions which likely showed the same which is why he was sent to the NBDL on multiple occasions last year. Just because I didn't get "minutes" with the Celtics last season does it also mean that drawing conclusion about my ability to not succeed as an NBA player is complete crap? 

Great, let's conclude things about a player that just got into the league and got his first minutes in. Seems very wise. You know who looked like crap in preseason? Scal. Yet he played quite well throughout the season. Darius Miles did a decent job during the season too. POB looked quite nice during preseason, and he did absolutely nothing during the season. Marbury looked quite good during preason... Shall we go on with how important those preseason minutes are?

[HomeRunBaker]

Giddens is not an intelligent basketball player. He was lost when given minutes. Unless I see a drastic improvement this season, he probably won't have an NBA career beyond this year. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am.

Other than he was never given minutes. I can understand arguments people might make about coaches not thinking he might be ready to play on this level and such, but crap like "he was lost when given minutes" is complete nonsense as far as analyzing him as a player goes.

Uh what? Giddens didn't get minutes I'll agree, but the getting lost out there is a valid observation.

Valid but ridiculous and lacks a lot of context, like him being inserted in garbage time where there's ZERO discipline by pretty much all involved. He had a game where he played 5 minutes of garbage time and that's pretty much it. Too low of a sample. Yet, for a guy who was lost he went 2/3 with an assist, 3 rebounds. Drawing conclusions from those few minutes, when there's a larger body of work in other stages, is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

What is ridiculous is you stating that a player MUST be given playing time to determine whether they will make it in the league or not.  If you have a player that is completely lost in practice, doesn't understand your most basic defensive principles and wander aimlessly in your offensive sets without any natural feel for the NBA game......then you do not need (nor should this player deserve) to see him in a real live NBA game.

Yet I have said no such things. Don't put words on my mouth. The only thing I said was that drawing conclusions based on "minutes" that he didn't get is complete crap.

Would you say it is fair to say that we can draw conclusions from the fact that he didn't get any minutes though?

To an extent. The league is littered with players that get minutes over players that are better than them for whatever reason. But in this practice you're not really analyzing the player nor his skills... you're depending on the judgement of some other person with information we don't have available to us. He might be doing a poor job or he might be doing a good job at it. We can never now for sure until we actually see him in action or have access to the practices themselves.

Giddens is not an intelligent basketball player. He was lost when given minutes. Unless I see a drastic improvement this season, he probably won't have an NBA career beyond this year. I could be wrong though, and I hope I am.

Other than he was never given minutes. I can understand arguments people might make about coaches not thinking he might be ready to play on this level and such, but crap like "he was lost when given minutes" is complete nonsense as far as analyzing him as a player goes.

Uh what? Giddens didn't get minutes I'll agree, but the getting lost out there is a valid observation.

Valid but ridiculous and lacks a lot of context, like him being inserted in garbage time where there's ZERO discipline by pretty much all involved. He had a game where he played 5 minutes of garbage time and that's pretty much it. Too low of a sample. Yet, for a guy who was lost he went 2/3 with an assist, 3 rebounds. Drawing conclusions from those few minutes, when there's a larger body of work in other stages, is ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

What is ridiculous is you stating that a player MUST be given playing time to determine whether they will make it in the league or not.  If you have a player that is completely lost in practice, doesn't understand your most basic defensive principles and wander aimlessly in your offensive sets without any natural feel for the NBA game......then you do not need (nor should this player deserve) to see him in a real live NBA game.

Yet I have said no such things. Don't put words on my mouth. The only thing I said was that drawing conclusions based on "minutes" that he didn't get is complete crap.

But he did get minutes in the pre-season last year and was completely lost......which doesn't take into account the daily practice sessions which likely showed the same which is why he was sent to the NBDL on multiple occasions last year. Just because I didn't get "minutes" with the Celtics last season does it also mean that drawing conclusion about my ability to not succeed as an NBA player is complete crap? 

Great, let's conclude things about a player that just got into the league and got his first minutes in. Seems very wise.

Players that just got into the league as 23-year old 5-year college players with a history of underachieving who show us deer-in-highlights look likely won't get in many more, if any, minutes.  There is a new group of prospects each year that push these guys to low-level leagues overseas, random minor leagues or the playgrounds. 

Sure there is a chance that Giddens suddenly figures things out because he certainly has the physical tools however he is most definitely behind the 8-ball based on his first impressions.

[BudweiserCeltic]

First impressions are great and all that, but they're in no shape or form representative of a player's skill or abilities and his body of work. It's just an impression and that's all.

I like Giddens and I think he has enough tools to make it in the league. He certainly needs to prove himself and has to deliver when called upon. I'm just saying the the conclusions being drawn here and how they're being drawn are quite flawed and lack perspective.

Giddens can fail or succeed, but it's not 100% entirely on his hands, only when the opportunity is upon himself whil he be responsible for delivering. He hasn't had that chance yet. The club opted last year for Walker even though I thought Giddens was the better player, and Walker didn't show much when given the chance.

During the summer, Giddens was playing better than Walker, so at the least I have reason to believe that my impression of Giddens has been fairly accurate so far in that regard. We'll have to see if he can win a spot this year, and if he does win a spot, will he deliver?

[wdleehi]

Complete unknown.


If he is not extended by the Celtics, he might still be an attractive min contract to a bad team looking to just fill a bench space.

[Jon]

I also wouldn't be shocked to see them give him one more shot, especially with TA presumably gone after this year.  Danny must've liked something about him at some point and if there's still a chance we might see it, it couldn't hurt to extend him at minimum money to a third year. 

But I wouldn't be upset to see him go either. 

[HomeRunBaker]

First impressions are great and all that, but they're in no shape or form representative of a player's skill or abilities and his body of work. It's just an impression and that's all.

I like Giddens and I think he has enough tools to make it in the league. He certainly needs to prove himself and has to deliver when called upon. I'm just saying the the conclusions being drawn here and how they're being drawn are quite flawed and lack perspective.

Giddens can fail or succeed, but it's not 100% entirely on his hands, only when the opportunity is upon himself whil he be responsible for delivering. He hasn't had that chance yet. The club opted last year for Walker even though I thought Giddens was the better player, and Walker didn't show much when given the chance.

During the summer, Giddens was playing better than Walker, so at the least I have reason to believe that my impression of Giddens has been fairly accurate so far in that regard. We'll have to see if he can win a spot this year, and if he does win a spot, will he deliver?

And it is those impressions that will determine whether he is offered a non-guaranteed training camp invitation to a team with an available slot......there aren't many out there.  I beg to differ that he hasn't had a chance to deliver.....he has the opportunity to impress every day as long as he is under NBA contract. Whether he does or not is 100% up to him.

Outplaying a player who is in the identical situation certainly is better than not doing so but in the end they will each have to make a major leap in their games to survive in this league.

[crownsy]

First impressions are great and all that, but they're in no shape or form representative of a player's skill or abilities and his body of work. It's just an impression and that's all.

I like Giddens and I think he has enough tools to make it in the league. He certainly needs to prove himself and has to deliver when called upon. I'm just saying the the conclusions being drawn here and how they're being drawn are quite flawed and lack perspective.

Giddens can fail or succeed, but it's not 100% entirely on his hands, only when the opportunity is upon himself whil he be responsible for delivering. He hasn't had that chance yet. The club opted last year for Walker even though I thought Giddens was the better player, and Walker didn't show much when given the chance.

During the summer, Giddens was playing better than Walker, so at the least I have reason to believe that my impression of Giddens has been fairly accurate so far in that regard. We'll have to see if he can win a spot this year, and if he does win a spot, will he deliver?

And it is those impressions that will determine whether he is offered a non-guaranteed training camp invitation to a team with an available slot......there aren't many out there.  I beg to differ that he hasn't had a chance to deliver.....he has the opportunity to impress every day as long as he is under NBA contract. Whether he does or not is 100% up to him.

Outplaying a player who is in the identical situation certainly is better than not doing so but in the end they will each have to make a major leap in their games to survive in this league.

I kind get where your coming from, but lets take a look at the depth chart. Giddeons, unlike walker, is primarily a SG.

So, he would have to crack a rotation that included last year:

Ray allen
Eddie House
Paul for limited minutes many games
and Tony allen, who doc loves beyond reason.

you can also toss in gabe pruitt (till he shot himself in the foot via DUI) who was getting some minutes to see if he was worth keeping at the time.

Walker meanwhile had to go through the SF position.

Paul
Scal (sort of, more of a 4)
ray when we really needed him and went small.


Which one do you objectively think was the easier depth chart to crack for a rookie?

It's no surprise to me that walker got minutes first, he plays a position we needed more at the time. As you said, it's on the player to impress so much he gets minutes, but thier is alot to be said for bud's point. There was no way giddeons was getting on the court last year outside massive injury woes to the SG rotation.

[the_Bird]

The difference between JR being a 2 and Billy maybe being more of a 3 is so small as to be irrelevant, IMHO.  These two guys have been playing for one spot in the rotation (the same that Tony Allen's fighting for) since they day they were drafted.  If Giddens showed ANYTHING in practice, he would have gotten a few of Billy's minutes even if that meant the team was a little undersized at the wing.  Saying he didn't get minutes because he's about an inch shorter than Walker is just looking desperately for an excuse to hang onto.

You know what Gidden's year last year kinda reminded me of?  Joe Forte.  We had three young guards, all rookies, all trying to get on the court.  A little different because they were trying to play Forte at the point, but still - there were minutes to be had.  JJ and Kedrick got on the court, but Forte barely got a sniff.  Once everything settled, it was pretty clear that two of those players were at least showing enough in practice that they earned a little bit of PT, while the third got to sit and watch. 

[guava_wrench]

I remember reading that the Celtics like his defensive potential.  If Tony Allen can be in the league for 6 years based on his defensive potential, surely JR can survive a few years.

They like TA's defense because he showed it in games. You can't compare the two.

[Roy Hobbs]

Giddens will still be around next season, Tony Allen will be a goner.

Tony will be gone, but Giddens will be, too.  Why pay Giddens $1.1 million, when you can sign an actual contributor for $825k?

[crownsy]

The difference between JR being a 2 and Billy maybe being more of a 3 is so small as to be irrelevant, IMHO.  These two guys have been playing for one spot in the rotation (the same that Tony Allen's fighting for) since they day they were drafted.  If Giddens showed ANYTHING in practice, he would have gotten a few of Billy's minutes even if that meant the team was a little undersized at the wing.  Saying he didn't get minutes because he's about an inch shorter than Walker is just looking desperately for an excuse to hang onto.

I fail to see how you can dismiss that depth chart analysis out of hand simply because you want to. Your entitled to your opnion, but it's not such a slam dunk that it eliminates my argument.

in every NBDL game they played together, walker played the 3, and giddeons played the 2.

When walker was not thier, giddeons still played the 2.

When giddeons did not suit up, walker still played the 3.

It would seem to me that the Celtics consider them a SG and SF, IMO.

The celtic's  consider walker a 3, and bill a 2. Do they sometimes play the other positions at times? Yes, in the same way that ray sometimes plays SF when we need to rest paul. They wouldn't be very useful NBA players if the couldn't.

But I fail to see any factual basis for your complete disregard of the fact that the Celtics consider one part of the SG depth chart and one part of the SF depth chart other than you don;t want to deal with that head up so you made up the fact that the celtics consider them as playing for the same "i.e Tony allen's minutes"

What do you base that on other than your own personal opinion that is not supported by the facts when they are on the same team? (i.e the NBDL, the listings in the media guide, ect)

I grant you thier isn't a ton of evidence that the celtics CLEARLY see them as a SG and SF primarily to the exclusion of the other, but niether is there, in any, way, shape, or form enough evidence to hold that, qoute

" These two guys have been playing for one spot in the rotation (the same that Tony Allen's fighting for) since they day they were drafted."

Thats your opinion, which you are clearly welcome to, but it's not a counter in any way to what i posted. It's not based on fact, unless you have inside info on player evals by the coaching staff.