Paul's offseason decision

[JSD]

I dunno, I think we get spoiled with the likes of certain guys taking hometown discounts to play here as well as field an incredibly competitive team.  Brady did it to get Moss and so on.  I would like to think that paul will do it to, but at the same time, look what happened to Bronson Arroyo, took a home town discount and then traded for willy mo. 

Depends on what happens.

If we win a title, maybe we work out extensions for Rondo and Pierce. But honestly I don't think any extension will give up money for Paul. It likely would be structured like KGs. He would make his 21 million and then see his salary level drop down to 10/12/14/whatever.

Fafnir, that's realistic too. But how is this a discount or "disrespectful" again?

21 + 10 + 11 + 12 = $54 Million

14 + 14 + 14 + 14 = $56 Million

I truly believe Paul will opt and immediately sign a contract similar to the one I'm suggesting. It will save the Celtics and make him a lot of money in the long run.

Also, If Paul becomes a renounced unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2011 he will get no more than the MLE unless he signs with a team under the cap. What team under the cap would be in the market for a 34 year old SG and also be in position to win? None.

[Roy Hobbs]

Also, If Paul becomes a renounced unrestricted free agent in the summer of 2011 he will get no more than the MLE unless he signs with a team under the cap. What team under the cap would be in the market for a 34 year old SG and also be in position to win? None.

Your first statement is a truism, but why would the Celtics renounce Pierce?

Second:  Paul Pierce is a SF.  Seriously, you're arguing he's a shooting guard?

Third:  While it's impossible to say who will have cap space in 2011, lots of teams would like to add a superstar SF.  For instance, the Miami Heat may be looking to add another scorer next to Wade, depending upon what they do next summer.  If Pierce wants to leave, he will have options.

[Fafnir]

That wasn't the offer you posted originally Jsaad. So are we offering him 54-56 million either way? Or are we holding the threat of your first scenario

I think telling Pierce, you're just going to get the MLE if we renounce you so you better opt out and sign this new deal is disrespectful. Especially when he can just say "F U" and collect nearly half the money you're offering in one year and then sign somewhere else.

Pierce would get more than Mike Bibby money, especially since quite a lot of teams have cap room for next offseason. Remember the whole LeBron/Wade/Bosh thing? Not all of them will use it all up.

Don't you think one of those teams would jump at getting Pierce for whatever cap room they have left? Or if a team can't get LeBron/Wade/Bosh they might target Pierce?

Ben Gordon got 10+ a year on the open market. Don't you think Pierce could get similar money?

[JSD]

Your first statement is a truism, but why would the Celtics renounce Pierce?

A truism is a claim that is so obvious or self-evident as to be hardly worth mentioning, except as a reminder or as a rhetorical or literary device.

Actually, I think it's relevant to the discussion and worth mentioning.

The Celtics could renounce Pierce if he plays hardball during contract negotiations which would allow them to be enough under the cap to sign a max free agent... (unlikely but it's possible)

Second:  Paul Pierce is a SF.  Seriously, you're arguing he's a shooting guard?

SG/SF or SF/SG whatever. He's played both although the majority at SF... I mistyped. Beside the point anyway.

Third:  While it's impossible to say who will have cap space in 2011, lots of teams would like to add a superstar SF.  For instance, the Miami Heat may be looking to add another scorer next to Wade, depending upon what they do next summer.  If Pierce wants to leave, he will have options.

It's unlikely the Heat would be able to offer anything over the MLE in 2011,

[JSD]

That wasn't the offer you posted originally Jsaad. So are we offering him 54-56 million either way? Or are we holding the threat of your first scenario

It's what you posted: 

He would make his 21 million and then see his salary level drop down to 10/12/14/whatever.

[JSD]

I think telling Pierce, you're just going to get the MLE if we renounce you so you better opt out and sign this new deal is disrespectful. Especially when he can just say "F U" and collect nearly half the money you're offering in one year and then sign somewhere else.

Pierce would get more than Mike Bibby money, especially since quite a lot of teams have cap room for next offseason. Remember the whole LeBron/Wade/Bosh thing? Not all of them will use it all up.

Don't you think one of those teams would jump at getting Pierce for whatever cap room they have left? Or if a team can't get LeBron/Wade/Bosh they might target Pierce?

Ben Gordon got 10+ a year on the open market. Don't you think Pierce could get similar money?

If Pierce picks up that option he would be unrestricted in the 2011 not 2010.

[Fafnir]

That wasn't the offer you posted originally Jsaad. So are we offering him 54-56 million either way? Or are we holding the threat of your first scenario

It's what you posted: 

He would make his 21 million and then see his salary level drop down to 10/12/14/whatever.

Okay I was confused by what you meant. I think your offer makes sense for the Celtics, but not necessarily for Pierce.

How you offer something is just as important as the total dollars. Your scenario used the threat of renouncing him to get him to sign the deal, then saying to his agent he'd only get the MLE so you better sign!

I was talking about trying to work out an extension in a manner that he might be open to, with a similar result. Paul easily could say I'm not going for only making 10 million. I wasn't proposing a specific contract Jsaad, I was proposing a framework for a deal. That is why I mentioned multiple different starting salaries for his new extension. So no I didn't post that specific deal.

[Fafnir]

I think telling Pierce, you're just going to get the MLE if we renounce you so you better opt out and sign this new deal is disrespectful. Especially when he can just say "F U" and collect nearly half the money you're offering in one year and then sign somewhere else.

Pierce would get more than Mike Bibby money, especially since quite a lot of teams have cap room for next offseason. Remember the whole LeBron/Wade/Bosh thing? Not all of them will use it all up.

Don't you think one of those teams would jump at getting Pierce for whatever cap room they have left? Or if a team can't get LeBron/Wade/Bosh they might target Pierce?

Ben Gordon got 10+ a year on the open market. Don't you think Pierce could get similar money?

If Pierce picks up that option he would be unrestricted in the 2011 not 2010.

Like I said in my post I don't think every team is going to use their cap room in 2010. So a team that didn't get a big time FA could target Pierce for a good deal more than the MLE.

[Jon]

Yeah.  I don't see anyone walking away from 21 million. 

That said, I also don't think the C's necessarily want PP around still in 4 years.  Yeah, it'd be sentimentally nice to see him retire in Green, but if I'm Ainge, I don't want Paul around still after Garnett and Allen are gone.  If I'm Ainge, I try to extend Ray and Paul, but only through the end of KG's deal.  That way, the C's have three huge deals (plus Wallace) coming off the books the same summer, opening up a ton of money to add young superstars to put at the 2/3/4 positions between Rondo and Perk. 

[JSD]

Yeah.  I don't see anyone walking away from 21 million. 

You lost me here.

[Rondo2287]

Yeah.  I don't see anyone walking away from 21 million. 

That said, I also don't think the C's necessarily want PP around still in 4 years.  Yeah, it'd be sentimentally nice to see him retire in Green, but if I'm Ainge, I don't want Paul around still after Garnett and Allen are gone.  If I'm Ainge, I try to extend Ray and Paul, but only through the end of KG's deal.  That way, the C's have three huge deals (plus Wallace) coming off the books the same summer, opening up a ton of money to add young superstars to put at the 2/3/4 positions between Rondo and Perk. 

Are any good players scheduled to be unrestricted that year?

[JSD]

How you offer something is just as important as the total dollars. Your scenario used the threat of renouncing him to get him to sign the deal, then saying to his agent he'd only get the MLE so you better sign!

What are you talking about? His agent would give him the best/worst case scenario not the Celtics.

I was talking about trying to work out an extension in a manner that he might be open to, with a similar result. Paul easily could say I'm not going for only making 10 million. I wasn't proposing a specific contract Jsaad, I was proposing a framework for a deal. That is why I mentioned multiple different starting salaries for his new extension. So no I didn't post that specific deal.

I hear that, just as $14 mill for 4 years is an estimate on my part.

My point is...

Danny: Paul, rip up that last year and sign this 4 years $55-62 million contract.

Paul: Cool.

[Fafnir]

How you offer something is just as important as the total dollars. Your scenario used the threat of renouncing him to get him to sign the deal, then saying to his agent he'd only get the MLE so you better sign!

What are you talking about? His agent would give him the best/worst case scenario not the Celtics.

I was talking about trying to work out an extension in a manner that he might be open to, with a similar result. Paul easily could say I'm not going for only making 10 million. I wasn't proposing a specific contract Jsaad, I was proposing a framework for a deal. That is why I mentioned multiple different starting salaries for his new extension. So no I didn't post that specific deal.

I hear that, just as $14 mill for 4 years is an estimate on my part.

My point is...

Danny: Paul, rip up that last year and sign this 4 years $55-62 million contract.

Paul: Cool.

Depends on what Paul thinks he can get after his contract. I do think he'd go for a deal that gave him another 36+ million. But will Danny offer him that?

[Jon]

Yeah.  I don't see anyone walking away from 21 million. 

That said, I also don't think the C's necessarily want PP around still in 4 years.  Yeah, it'd be sentimentally nice to see him retire in Green, but if I'm Ainge, I don't want Paul around still after Garnett and Allen are gone.  If I'm Ainge, I try to extend Ray and Paul, but only through the end of KG's deal.  That way, the C's have three huge deals (plus Wallace) coming off the books the same summer, opening up a ton of money to add young superstars to put at the 2/3/4 positions between Rondo and Perk. 

Are any good players scheduled to be unrestricted that year?

I know Carmelo becomes as FA that year.  I'd have to delve deeper to look for others.  It's not the point, though.  Even if we had to wait until the summer of 2013 the following year, it'd still be a huge advantage for the C's to have a ton of space.  

And to Jsaad, in order for Paul to go into a long term deal, he's going to have to walk away from a guaranteed 21 million dollars next year.  I don't see him doing that.  The NBA superstar ego is too big.  Even if you are right, and he'll command no more than the MLE on the FA market, he'll never realize that until it happens to him.  Thus, he's going to think he's going to command 10 million+ on the FA market.  And if that's the case, he's not going to walk away from 21 million to get what he thinks he can get on the FA market the next season a year early.  

[JSD]

How you offer something is just as important as the total dollars. Your scenario used the threat of renouncing him to get him to sign the deal, then saying to his agent he'd only get the MLE so you better sign!

What are you talking about? His agent would give him the best/worst case scenario not the Celtics.

I was talking about trying to work out an extension in a manner that he might be open to, with a similar result. Paul easily could say I'm not going for only making 10 million. I wasn't proposing a specific contract Jsaad, I was proposing a framework for a deal. That is why I mentioned multiple different starting salaries for his new extension. So no I didn't post that specific deal.

I hear that, just as $14 mill for 4 years is an estimate on my part.

My point is...

Danny: Paul, rip up that last year and sign this 4 years $55-62 million contract.

Paul: Cool.

Depends on what Paul thinks he can get after his contract. I do think he'd go for a deal that gave him another 36+ million. But will Danny offer him that?

When you consider what the Celtics could save money right off the bat then yes. If Paul's $21 mill goes down to $14 Mill(let's say) that's 7 Million dollar savings on payroll and $7 million on LT totaling $14 Mill. for 2011. It's great for both parties.