Andres Nocioni to Boston will not happen

[mgent]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

Think about it like this: Perk, KG, Powe, and Big Baby had the big man playoff rotation "covered" last year...until KG and Powe went down. So what did we do this year? We upgraded our bench, replacing Powe with Sheed and adding Shelden Williams.

Long story short, I would rather go into the season with too many options than run into the problem of not having enough options in the playoffs.

Also, Pierce and Ray aren't getting any younger, and we all know that we need to cut their minutes as much as possible. Check this out:

Pierce: 30 MPG
Ray: 30 MPG
Nocioni: 18 MPG
Daneils: 18 MPG

But why only play Daniels 18 mpg?  He's been a guy who has played 25-30 mpg his whole career,

All we need is this:  

Pierce: 32 mpg
Ray: 32 mpg
Daniels: 28 mpg
House: 4 mpg (Eddie plays 16 or so backup minutes at the PG as well).  

And that's the regular season.  Even if you wanted to knock down Pierce and Ray to 30 mpg each (which isn't going to happen), we can just play Scal for 4 mpg.  Is it really worth 7 million a year for 4 years to upgrade the bench for 4 mpg during the regular season?  

The real key for this team will be being healthy during the playoffs.  Ultimately, I don't think Nocioni helps with that.  If Pierce or Allen goes down long term, this team probably isn't going to win it all, Nocioni or not.  If either goes down for part of the regular season, this team is going to win 60+ games whether Nocioni is starting or J.R. Giddens.  If Daniels goes down in the playoffs, the team could still win it all playing Pierce and Allen 40 mpg and letting House and Scal split the odd 16 minutes left.  

I just don't see the point of getting a 7 million dollar backup 3 on a team that only needs one backup 2/3 and has it already.  

And on a slightly variant note, despite what we each might feel about the value of Nocioni, I think we can all pretty much safely agree that there's no way Wyc and company are going to let Danny take on that type of contract unless something pretty dramatic happens. 

The problem is, neither Scal nor Daniels are true SFs.  And you run into the problem of having Daniels and Rondo on the court at the same time for a good chunk of time.

[ssspence]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

Not because of his play. Because as an owner and or GM, paying this guy so far above his value is only justifiable when you're desparate for someone to take minutes. Is Nocioni a better player than Daniels? Some will say yes, and some will say no, but he makes 4 times as much. How many minutes is he going to play?

Anyway, the idea is that House and Daniels collectively back-up three positions. One or two of Rondo, Ray and Paul plays with them and they rotate. As long as their healthy, why do they need Noce? He's really more of a small 4 anyway, and we don't need that.

[Jon]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

You don't need to be desperate...but you need a good reason to take on a guy with a contract like that.  Right now, they do not have a good reason.  They have plenty of guys who can play every position, and have a very good playoff rotation if everyone remains healthy.  Right now, there is just not enough room for improvement by adding Nocioni, to rationalize giving up that future flexibility.  He would just be a luxury and really expensive insurance.  Now, if there is an injury, suddenly, he goes from a luxury to a need, and suddenly it makes sense.

I agree with that, which is why I supported the C's acquiring him last year, when the C's had no one to backup Pierce and Allen.  However, despite their age, there's really only going to be 30-35 mpg of backup duty at the 2/3 spots.  If you figure that Eddie will likely get a few mpg at the 2 spot now and again next to Rondo, there's no reason why Daniels can't handle the rest of that with Scal or J.R. getting the call for an odd couple of minutes here or there.  

As for Scal or Daniels not being a true, SF, I'd pose two questions:

1) What exactly is a true small forward?  The line has been blurred so much in this league I'm not sure it matters all that much.

2) For all the concern about size at the 3, isn't Nocioni a downgrade from Scal or Marquis defensively?  Thus, he isn't going to solve the problem of who guards Hedo or LeBron.  In fact, despite size and quickness issues, Scal and Marquis would do a better job than Nocioni on either of those guys.  

[Chris]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

Not because of his play. Because as an owner and or GM, paying this guy so far above his value is only responsible when you're desparate. Is Nocioni a better player than Daniels? Some will say yes, and some will say no, but he makes 4 times as much. How many minutes is he going to play?

Anyway, the idea is that House and Daniels collectively back-up three positions. One or two of Rondo, Ray and Paul plays with them and they rotate. As long as their healthy, why do they need Noce? He's really more of a small 4 anyway, and we don't need that.

Well, I would argue that while Nocioni is not a bargain, he is also not overpaid.  He makes pretty much market-value for a guy with his production.  I have a feeling Daniels will be making money comparable to Nocioni next season.  

[Jon]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

Not because of his play. Because as an owner and or GM, paying this guy so far above his value is only responsible when you're desparate. Is Nocioni a better player than Daniels? Some will say yes, and some will say no, but he makes 4 times as much. How many minutes is he going to play?

Anyway, the idea is that House and Daniels collectively back-up three positions. One or two of Rondo, Ray and Paul plays with them and they rotate. As long as their healthy, why do they need Noce? He's really more of a small 4 anyway, and we don't need that.

Well, I would argue that while Nocioni is not a bargain, he is also not overpaid.  He makes pretty much market-value for a guy with his production.  I have a feeling Daniels will be making money comparable to Nocioni next season.  

Maybe a couple of years ago, but not right now.  If the Artests and Wallace of the world are getting MLE, Nocioni is probably overpaid. 

Regardless, since he doesn't fill a need right now, I'd prefer the C's have the financial flexibility next year to go out and find a replacement for Marquis with the MLE (who might end up being Marquis himself).  I'm not sure the C's use it next year if they take on Nocioni this year. 

[ssspence]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

Not because of his play. Because as an owner and or GM, paying this guy so far above his value is only responsible when you're desparate. Is Nocioni a better player than Daniels? Some will say yes, and some will say no, but he makes 4 times as much. How many minutes is he going to play?

Anyway, the idea is that House and Daniels collectively back-up three positions. One or two of Rondo, Ray and Paul plays with them and they rotate. As long as their healthy, why do they need Noce? He's really more of a small 4 anyway, and we don't need that.

Well, I would argue that while Nocioni is not a bargain, he is also not overpaid.  He makes pretty much market-value for a guy with his production.  I have a feeling Daniels will be making money comparable to Nocioni next season.  

Maybe a couple of years ago, but not right now.  If the Artests and Wallace of the world are getting MLE, Nocioni is probably overpaid. 

Regardless, since he doesn't fill a need right now, I'd prefer the C's have the financial flexibility next year to go out and find a replacement for Marquis with the MLE (who might end up being Marquis himself).  I'm not sure the C's use it next year if they take on Nocioni this year. 

yep

[mgent]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

Not because of his play. Because as an owner and or GM, paying this guy so far above his value is only responsible when you're desparate. Is Nocioni a better player than Daniels? Some will say yes, and some will say no, but he makes 4 times as much. How many minutes is he going to play?

Anyway, the idea is that House and Daniels collectively back-up three positions. One or two of Rondo, Ray and Paul plays with them and they rotate. As long as their healthy, why do they need Noce? He's really more of a small 4 anyway, and we don't need that.

Well, I would argue that while Nocioni is not a bargain, he is also not overpaid.  He makes pretty much market-value for a guy with his production.  I have a feeling Daniels will be making money comparable to Nocioni next season.  

Maybe a couple of years ago, but not right now.  If the Artests and Wallace of the world are getting MLE, Nocioni is probably overpaid. 

Regardless, since he doesn't fill a need right now, I'd prefer the C's have the financial flexibility next year to go out and find a replacement for Marquis with the MLE (who might end up being Marquis himself).  I'm not sure the C's use it next year if they take on Nocioni this year. 

First off, he does fill a need.  I doubt Marquis is worth the MLE to too many teams.  Nocioni would be the ideal replacement for Daniels next year, and let's see if either Giddens, Walker, or Hudson can step up and play some real minutes.

Our 2010 team's bench looks like
Rasheed
Davis
Nocioni/Walker
House(or other)/Giddens
Hudson (or possibly an MLE signing)

That bench can go on for several years, regardless of the starter situation, and for a relatively cheap price.
Even if we use the entire MLE on a true backup point we'd be paying about the same as the Lakers with a much better team.
For all we know a free agent like Nocioni might not want to sign here next year (Grant Hill didn't).  Let's just get him and use him this year as well, especially if he's replacing TA and Scal's contracts.

[Tai]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

Not because of his play. Because as an owner and or GM, paying this guy so far above his value is only responsible when you're desparate. Is Nocioni a better player than Daniels? Some will say yes, and some will say no, but he makes 4 times as much. How many minutes is he going to play?

Anyway, the idea is that House and Daniels collectively back-up three positions. One or two of Rondo, Ray and Paul plays with them and they rotate. As long as their healthy, why do they need Noce? He's really more of a small 4 anyway, and we don't need that.

Well, I would argue that while Nocioni is not a bargain, he is also not overpaid.  He makes pretty much market-value for a guy with his production.  I have a feeling Daniels will be making money comparable to Nocioni next season.  

Maybe a couple of years ago, but not right now.  If the Artests and Wallace of the world are getting MLE, Nocioni is probably overpaid. 

Regardless, since he doesn't fill a need right now, I'd prefer the C's have the financial flexibility next year to go out and find a replacement for Marquis with the MLE (who might end up being Marquis himself).  I'm not sure the C's use it next year if they take on Nocioni this year. 

First off, he does fill a need.  I doubt Marquis is worth the MLE to too many teams.  Nocioni would be the ideal replacement for Daniels next year, and let's see if either Giddens, Walker, or Hudson can step up and play some real minutes.

Our 2010 team's bench looks like
Rasheed
Davis
Nocioni/Walker
House(or other)/Giddens
Hudson (or possibly an MLE signing)

That bench can go on for several years, regardless of the starter situation, and for a relatively cheap price.
Even if we use the entire MLE on a true backup point we'd be paying about the same as the Lakers with a much better team.
For all we know a free agent like Nocioni might not want to sign here next year (Grant Hill didn't).  Let's just get him and use him this year as well, especially if he's replacing TA and Scal's contracts.

A player like Nocioni wouldn't want to sign? Didn't Daniels sign? I'd argue we'd need a true backup as far as this so Daniels could play small forward and play that role similar to what Noicioni would be, but that's about it. Other than that, Daniels is essentially the same player with more versatility, and probably a better defender.

Btw...don't we have Daniels locked up for two years? Where'd you get that he's only on a one year deal?

[Brickowski]

Because it's only a one year deal. 

[CelticG1]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

Not because of his play. Because as an owner and or GM, paying this guy so far above his value is only responsible when you're desparate. Is Nocioni a better player than Daniels? Some will say yes, and some will say no, but he makes 4 times as much. How many minutes is he going to play?

Anyway, the idea is that House and Daniels collectively back-up three positions. One or two of Rondo, Ray and Paul plays with them and they rotate. As long as their healthy, why do they need Noce? He's really more of a small 4 anyway, and we don't need that.

Well, I would argue that while Nocioni is not a bargain, he is also not overpaid.  He makes pretty much market-value for a guy with his production.  I have a feeling Daniels will be making money comparable to Nocioni next season.  

Maybe a couple of years ago, but not right now.  If the Artests and Wallace of the world are getting MLE, Nocioni is probably overpaid. 

Regardless, since he doesn't fill a need right now, I'd prefer the C's have the financial flexibility next year to go out and find a replacement for Marquis with the MLE (who might end up being Marquis himself).  I'm not sure the C's use it next year if they take on Nocioni this year. 

First off, he does fill a need.  I doubt Marquis is worth the MLE to too many teams.  Nocioni would be the ideal replacement for Daniels next year, and let's see if either Giddens, Walker, or Hudson can step up and play some real minutes.

Our 2010 team's bench looks like
Rasheed
Davis
Nocioni/Walker
House(or other)/Giddens
Hudson (or possibly an MLE signing)

That bench can go on for several years, regardless of the starter situation, and for a relatively cheap price.
Even if we use the entire MLE on a true backup point we'd be paying about the same as the Lakers with a much better team.
For all we know a free agent like Nocioni might not want to sign here next year (Grant Hill didn't).  Let's just get him and use him this year as well, especially if he's replacing TA and Scal's contracts.

A player like Nocioni wouldn't want to sign? Didn't Daniels sign? I'd argue we'd need a true backup as far as this so Daniels could play small forward and play that role similar to what Noicioni would be, but that's about it. Other than that, Daniels is essentially the same player with more versatility, and probably a better defender.

Btw...don't we have Daniels locked up for two years? Where'd you get that he's only on a one year deal?

Yeah it's only a one year deal. 1 year Bi-annual exception for 1.99 mil. Part of the reason we were looking to get a S&T done was to increase the years and for daniels to increase his money.

[timepiece33]

I'm very comfortable that we can secure a better player at the MLE next year and while Nocioni has a decent offensive game ... he's not good defensively and he doesn't play in the context of a system.  The guy is a virtual blackhole who doesn't distribute the ball.   If we go down this route, I'd rather have Posey. He atleast fits the system and can offer more than a one dimensional blackhole.

[jayk009]

keep in mind at we don't have Marquis Daniels birds rights, and also that a team only gets an MLE  if they are over the cap. Now assuming we resign Rondo, Ray Allen and Eddie House we will be right over the cap again and the MLE will be available, however we will have to cut into the MLE if we hope to resign Daniels. Now if Marquis Daniels plays well this season and we win the title  I see no reason that the Celtics would not resign him to a new deal. There's a very good chance that our team will look exactly the same as this year except scal will return on a minimum contract, Tony Allen will be gone and we will have another late first rounder on the roster, and maybe some depth players signed to minimum deals and/or whatever is left over of the MLE after the Daniels signing.


Now back to the theoretical Nocioni trade:

Acquiring Nocioni does not effect Boston Celtics ability to resign any of their important players in the future and doesnt really effect their cap space according to the rules of the CBA and the way the cap works. However, assuming that Boston does not worry about money at all  and it willing to take on his contract is completely disregarding any real economic  factors. Even though the Celtics owners are willing to go over the cap to be championship contenders, they are not going to be irresponsible in the way they spend that money, and they will not approve a move to add a 7 million dollar/year(14 mill if u consider luxury tax) backup for the next three years. Now let's say that Marquis Daniels has a major injury, then the situation will be completely different, but with the current situation there is no chance he will come to the Celtics... we're not the New York Knicks or the Dallas Mavericks here...

[ssspence]

keep in mind at we don't have Marquis Daniels birds rights, and also that a team only gets an MLE  if they are over the cap. Now assuming we resign Rondo, Ray Allen and Eddie House we will be right over the cap again and the MLE will be available, however we will have to cut into the MLE if we hope to resign Daniels. Now if Marquis Daniels plays well this season and we win the title  I see no reason that the Celtics would not resign him to a new deal. There's a very good chance that our team will look exactly the same as this year except scal will return on a minimum contract, Tony Allen will be gone and we will have another late first rounder on the roster, and maybe some depth players signed to minimum deals and/or whatever is left over of the MLE after the Daniels signing.


Now back to the theoretical Nocioni trade:

Acquiring Nocioni does not effect Boston Celtics ability to resign any of their important players in the future and doesnt really effect their cap space according to the rules of the CBA and the way the cap works. However, assuming that Boston does not worry about money at all  and it willing to take on his contract is completely disregarding any real economic  factors. Even though the Celtics owners are willing to go over the cap to be championship contenders, they are not going to be irresponsible in the way they spend that money, and they will not approve a move to add a 7 million dollar/year(14 mill if u consider luxury tax) backup for the next three years. Now let's say that Marquis Daniels has a major injury, then the situation will be completely different, but with the current situation there is no chance he will come to the Celtics... we're not the New York Knicks or the Dallas Mavericks here...

right. as i stated, if they are in desparate need of help at the 3 during the course of the year, nocioni will be considered -- amongst others. but short of a long-term daniels injury i don't see them having a true need for him.

i liked the idea of some additional insurance in the offseason, but obviously not at 6-7.5 mil per year for 3 years -- a moon type deal, or a bogans at the minimum. the celtics are making a strong effort to maintain some financial flexibility for the coming years and are unlikely to mess with it unless they have no other choice.

[Jon]

I'm very comfortable that we can secure a better player at the MLE next year and while Nocioni has a decent offensive game ... he's not good defensively and he doesn't play in the context of a system.  The guy is a virtual blackhole who doesn't distribute the ball.   If we go down this route, I'd rather have Posey. He atleast fits the system and can offer more than a one dimensional blackhole.

And that's the big problem.  People keep saying we need a "true small forwad," but why?  The only reason that one could argue that we need a "true small forward" is if you think that Daniels doesn't have the size to defend bigger threes.  Well that's all well and good, but Nocioni does NOT solve that problem.  In fact, he makes it worse as the C's would still be better off with Daniels guarding bigger small forwards than letting Nocioni do it. 

And if we're talking about offensive contributions, is Nocioni really that much better than Daniels?  If he is, it's only by a little bit.  Remember, Daniels has put up good stats on good teams, which is more than Nocioni can claim. 

And with Doc's recent announcement that the starters are going to play normal minutes, there really isn't going to be time for more than one backup swingman for the C's this year.