Andres Nocioni to Boston will not happen

[mgent]

The Lakers are paying out 91 million in salary.  People need to face the fact that you have to spend money if you want to win.

Rondo is gonna resign here no matter what.  If we wanted to resign Ray for 12 mil, that'd save plenty of money to be used on Rondo.

I don't know why people want to waste our expirings.  What does money off the books count for?  Is there an award for saving money, or being fiscally conservative?  If a trade for a guy like Nocioni should ever appear, we need to jump on it immediately.

[ssspence]

For what it's worth, I agree that Nocioni to the Cs is highly unlikely. His skills and lateral quickness are declining, he's not a great defender of the 3 and his salary is not in line with current standards.

Clearly he'd be a nice addition to the bench, but Ainge has shown a clearl concern for cap managementover the next couple of years. If the Kings need to dump salary, I'd see Garcia as more likely (he's much younger), tho his salary is also out of tune with today's standard (look at Matt Barnes).

[Roy Hobbs]

The Lakers are paying out 91 million in salary.  People need to face the fact that you have to spend money if you want to win.

Rondo is gonna resign here no matter what.  If we wanted to resign Ray for 12 mil, that'd save plenty of money to be used on Rondo.

I don't know why people want to waste our expirings.  What does money off the books count for?  Is there an award for saving money, or being fiscally conservative?  If a trade for a guy like Nocioni should ever appear, we need to jump on it immediately.

What adding a long-term salary like Nocioni's may do is make it less likely for the team to be able to pursue a big name free agent like Kevin Durant.  I can understand why the team would want to preserve some salary cap flexibility.

[Chris]

The Lakers are paying out 91 million in salary.  People need to face the fact that you have to spend money if you want to win.

Rondo is gonna resign here no matter what.  If we wanted to resign Ray for 12 mil, that'd save plenty of money to be used on Rondo.

I don't know why people want to waste our expirings.  What does money off the books count for?  Is there an award for saving money, or being fiscally conservative?  If a trade for a guy like Nocioni should ever appear, we need to jump on it immediately.

What adding a long-term salary like Nocioni's may do is make it less likely for the team to be able to pursue a big name free agent like Kevin Durant.  I can understand why the team would want to preserve some salary cap flexibility.

Do you think the C's (or anyone else for that matter) would stand any chance to get Durant as a RFA?  He is going to either resign with OKC, or he will play out the year on his QO, and become a UFA in the summer of 2010...conveniently at the same time Nocioni would come off the books (his last year is a team option).

[mgent]

The Lakers are paying out 91 million in salary.  People need to face the fact that you have to spend money if you want to win.

Rondo is gonna resign here no matter what.  If we wanted to resign Ray for 12 mil, that'd save plenty of money to be used on Rondo.

I don't know why people want to waste our expirings.  What does money off the books count for?  Is there an award for saving money, or being fiscally conservative?  If a trade for a guy like Nocioni should ever appear, we need to jump on it immediately.

What adding a long-term salary like Nocioni's may do is make it less likely for the team to be able to pursue a big name free agent like Kevin Durant.  I can understand why the team would want to preserve some salary cap flexibility.

But we can win now.  I want the best chance possible.

I just don't think our team is currently in the position to be looking at future big name free agent signing.  We should be able to contend year after year, especially with young guys like Perk and Rondo.  The time to go after a guy like Durant was '07, when we had a handful of cheap young guys with potential.

At this point, I don't want to be anyway near salary cap flexibility, because that means most of our championship team is gone.

A little off topic, but I think Pierce is gonna be better than Kevin Durant for years to come.  As long as we have a guy like Pierce, and a strong contributing cast, there's no need to be looking for big signings.

[Brickowski]

Durant?  Worst defender in the league.  Thobodeau would lose what little hair he has left.  Now Jeff Green is another story.  He's a basketball player, not just a one-dimensional gunner.

[Chris]

The Lakers are paying out 91 million in salary.  People need to face the fact that you have to spend money if you want to win.

Rondo is gonna resign here no matter what.  If we wanted to resign Ray for 12 mil, that'd save plenty of money to be used on Rondo.

I don't know why people want to waste our expirings.  What does money off the books count for?  Is there an award for saving money, or being fiscally conservative?  If a trade for a guy like Nocioni should ever appear, we need to jump on it immediately.

What adding a long-term salary like Nocioni's may do is make it less likely for the team to be able to pursue a big name free agent like Kevin Durant.  I can understand why the team would want to preserve some salary cap flexibility.

Another thing that makes me think a trade for a contract like Nocioni's is more likely now than it was last year when they let Posey walk is the outlook towards cap-space in 2011.  We already know they will not have space in 2010, and both Posey or Nocioni would come off the books before 2012.  So if cap space is an issue (which I think it is), then you are looking at 2011.  But when you look at their cap situation, it is not all cut and dry in 2011.  KG will still be taking up over $21 million, Rasheed is another $7 million.  Then you would have to add in Rondo and Pierce, who I will calculate at a VERY low number of $20 million for the two of them.  Suddenly, you are at $47 million with only 5 players signed.  Assuming the cap stays the same as it now (and many people think it will actually go down), that gives them about $10 million in cap room.  Assuming they renounce everyone else (including Perk and Davis).

A year ago, this looked very different.  The economy was doing much better, and they were anticipating the cap would continue rising each year, so suddenly $10 million under the cap becomes $20 million, so they can reload with another star, and keep a player or two.  That likely played into why they did not give Posey that extra year.  But now that the chances of that cap space have all but disappeared, I think there is a chance that they will absolutely loosen the purse strings for the right player during that season.  And I think Wallace is the perfect example of that. 

[screwedupmaniac]

Two things to consider:

1. Marquis Daniels is only signed with us for one year. Let's say we win it all this year...who's our backup next year? Nocioni's got 3 years left on his contract, which gives us a definite backup until our window of opportunity is closed.

2. We are one injury away from being not much better than we were last year. God forbid Pierce or Ray get injured; Marquis takes the starting spot: who comes off the bench?

Maybe we don't need Andres Nocioni...but I would sure feel a heck of a lot better about our chances if we did get him.

[Jon]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

[Chris]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

[screwedupmaniac]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

Think about it like this: Perk, KG, Powe, and Big Baby had the big man playoff rotation "covered" last year...until KG and Powe went down. So what did we do this year? We upgraded our bench, replacing Powe with Sheed and adding Shelden Williams.

Long story short, I would rather go into the season with too many options than run into the problem of not having enough options in the playoffs.

Also, Pierce and Ray aren't getting any younger, and we all know that we need to cut their minutes as much as possible. Check this out:

Pierce: 30 MPG
Ray: 30 MPG
Nocioni: 18 MPG
Daneils: 18 MPG

[ssspence]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

[mgent]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

[Jon]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

Think about it like this: Perk, KG, Powe, and Big Baby had the big man playoff rotation "covered" last year...until KG and Powe went down. So what did we do this year? We upgraded our bench, replacing Powe with Sheed and adding Shelden Williams.

Long story short, I would rather go into the season with too many options than run into the problem of not having enough options in the playoffs.

Also, Pierce and Ray aren't getting any younger, and we all know that we need to cut their minutes as much as possible. Check this out:

Pierce: 30 MPG
Ray: 30 MPG
Nocioni: 18 MPG
Daneils: 18 MPG

But why only play Daniels 18 mpg?  He's been a guy who has played 25-30 mpg his whole career,

All we need is this:  

Pierce: 32 mpg
Ray: 32 mpg
Daniels: 28 mpg
House: 4 mpg (Eddie plays 16 or so backup minutes at the PG as well).  

And that's the regular season.  Even if you wanted to knock down Pierce and Ray to 30 mpg each (which isn't going to happen), we can just play Scal for 4 mpg.  Is it really worth 7 million a year for 4 years to upgrade the bench for 4 mpg during the regular season?  

The real key for this team will be being healthy during the playoffs.  Ultimately, I don't think Nocioni helps with that.  If Pierce or Allen goes down long term, this team probably isn't going to win it all, Nocioni or not.  If either goes down for part of the regular season, this team is going to win 60+ games whether Nocioni is starting or J.R. Giddens.  If Daniels goes down in the playoffs, the team could still win it all playing Pierce and Allen 40 mpg and letting House and Scal split the odd 16 minutes left.  

I just don't see the point of getting a 7 million dollar backup 3 on a team that only needs one backup 2/3 and has it already.  

And on a slightly variant note, despite what we each might feel about the value of Nocioni, I think we can all pretty much safely agree that there's no way Wyc and company are going to let Danny take on that type of contract unless something pretty dramatic happens. 

[Chris]

One thing that keeps driving me crazy with this Nocioni debate is the lack of consideration Nocioni proponents have for an actual playoff rotation.  Come playoff time, the C's are only going to have minutes for two players to backup the 1-3 positions.  Right now I see no reason why Eddie House and Marquis Daniels can't fill that role right now.

If Nocioni comes here, one of two things will occur:

A) He doesn't break the rotation.

B) He does break the rotation, and forces Eddie or Marquis to the bench. 

If option A happens, he's obviously not worth it.  We could win 65 regular season games with Kedrick Brown as the backup 3, so if Nocioni can't break the playoff rotation, we don't need him for the regular season.

If he does break the rotation, is it really worth 7 million (or 14 million with the luxury tax) to do so?  I'm all about going all in now and future-be-[dang]ed, but Nocioni could potentially hurt the C's ability to pickup free agents next year, when they will still be contenders.  Plus, how much of an upgrade would he really be over Daniels or House, if any at all?  Because all three aren't going to play in the playoffs. 

I think this is a fair point, which is why I only think they would actually go after someone like Nocioni if there was a serious injury, or if someone ends up really underperforming. 

Well said, both of you. You need to be desparate to take on this guy's deal. And the Cs aren't desparate yet.

Why do you have to be desperate?  Nobody has to be benched.  Nocioni, House, and Daniels can play 15-20 minutes a piece.  And Nocioni can keep on playing after Daniels and possibly House are gone.

Daniels is a guard, let him stay that way.

You don't need to be desperate...but you need a good reason to take on a guy with a contract like that.  Right now, they do not have a good reason.  They have plenty of guys who can play every position, and have a very good playoff rotation if everyone remains healthy.  Right now, there is just not enough room for improvement by adding Nocioni, to rationalize giving up that future flexibility.  He would just be a luxury and really expensive insurance.  Now, if there is an injury, suddenly, he goes from a luxury to a need, and suddenly it makes sense.