Can Marquis play off the bench effectively?

[lon3lytoaster]

Me being the basketball stat nerd that I am, was checking up on Daniels' season splits and saw some interesting numbers.

6.8PPG, 3.4 RPG, 1.4 APG in 20 minutes. The really scary parts are 42.5% from the field, 42.9 from the line and 11 (!) percent from three. It's in a pretty small sample size over only 11 games, but he isn't going to start in Boston.

Seeing those numbers makes me a little nervous, I knew he couldn't shoot well but I mean Rondo is a significantly better shooter and that's saying something, and not something good.

Do we really have the depth that a lot of us think we have?

[Drucci]

His shooting percentages are awful but I'm not worried, since we won't ask him to shoot too much but more to drive and score in the paint. Plus, he will be playing alonsgside Rasheed and House, two excellent shooters who can spread the floor.

And maybe Ray will teach Marquis how to shoot the ball... but I may be asking too much there. 

[lon3lytoaster]

His shooting percentages are awful but I'm not worried, since we won't ask him to shoot too much but more to drive and score in the paint. Plus, he will be playing alonsgside Rasheed and House, two excellent shooters who can spread the floor.

And maybe Ray will teach Marquis how to shoot the ball... but I may be asking too much there. 

haha well, Ray hasn't turned Rondo into a sniper yet so I don't think that'll be be the case with Marquis

But seriously, my concern is with spacing and I'm not entirely sure if we have it to really have an effective bench and help Marquis score. He was signed to score the ball and bring it up court so Eddie wouldn't have to.

The problem with Rasheed shooting the threes is that he isn't going to be rebounding much, that's been the story his entire career. We know he's going to do his thing no matter what, so then where are the boards coming from? Davis is lackluster there, KG's numbers are going down and Perk can't play 48 minutes.

I'm just not sold on the idea that we'll have a really effective bench overall, I guess.

[greenwise]

Marquis can do a little bit of everything and yet he's not a specialist, really. That's why he will play so well for us this year. He can play some point, drive effectively to the basket (drawing the defense, opening spaces for shooters...) and play some good defense. He's very athletic too and he will add youth and fresh legs to our veteran team.

[Roy Hobbs]

Daniels was almost exclusively a bench player the two seasons prior to this, so I think those are probably a good indication of what he'll bring to the table.  Also, his "per 36 minutes" numbers weren't that much different last season than they've been previously.  Link

As for spacing on the bench, that doesn't really worry me, either.  Sure, Daniels isn't a shooter, but he'll often be paired with House and Rasheed, and maybe BBD.  All of those guys stretch the floor.

As for rebounding, I agree that our bench could use a guy who is an elite rebounder.  However, I'm optimistic that we'll see BBD's rebounding improve in those situations where he's asked to play closer to the basket.

Also, I'm hoping that Doc mixes his starters with his bench a little more, so that we can stop thinking of the bench as a unit.  Sure, everyone on the bench is going to have flaws, but two of our bench guys were starters last season (and BBD makes three, if you want to count him).  With an amazing starting lineup, I think all you need is competent bench players, and we certainly have those.

[CelticPride18]

He played great off the bench in Dallas.

[lon3lytoaster]

Daniels was almost exclusively a bench player the two seasons prior to this, so I think those are probably a good indication of what he'll bring to the table.  Also, his "per 36 minutes" numbers weren't that much different last season than they've been previously.  Link

As for spacing on the bench, that doesn't really worry me, either.  Sure, Daniels isn't a shooter, but he'll often be paired with House and Rasheed, and maybe BBD.  All of those guys stretch the floor.

As for rebounding, I agree that our bench could use a guy who is an elite rebounder.  However, I'm optimistic that we'll see BBD's rebounding improve in those situations where he's asked to play closer to the basket.

Also, I'm hoping that Doc mixes his starters with his bench a little more, so that we can stop thinking of the bench as a unit.  Sure, everyone on the bench is going to have flaws, but two of our bench guys were starters last season (and BBD makes three, if you want to count him).  With an amazing starting lineup, I think all you need is competent bench players, and we certainly have those.

Now if Per 36's were all that accurate and meant anything JR Giddens would be a superstar. And I wouldn't say Davis can stretch the floor. Like I have always said, his jumpshot is vastly overrated and he irks the hell out of me shooting them so much. Luckily, with the addition of Rasheed he likely won't play a lot.

Now, we're not going to play Rondo with Daniels because we won't be able to score and imagine if there is foul trouble for either Ray or Pierce against whatever player you want to put here, I don't care do we take out Rondo and/or Perkins to compensate for Daniels? The only other option at this point in time is Eddie who I wouldn't call an elite defender or do we leave Pierce or Ray in with foul trouble so we can actually score and not get torched?

I just don't feel too comfortable with Daniels playing without Ray, Eddie, and Rasheed at least, cause if he isn't getting to the rim he's not worth having out there.


Also, that's Davis' shot chart for the season to validate my point. He isn't a good shooter.

[Roy Hobbs]

As for Davis, you need to consider his improvement over the season, which that shot chart and his overall numbers don't do.  For instance, in early January BBD had an eFG% below .30 on jumpers.  By the end of the season, he had that number up around .37.  That means that in the second half of the season, he was shooting much more effectively.

As for PER 36 numbers, if a player's stats are remarkably consistent for three seasons on a per-minute basis, no matter how many minutes he seems to be getting, why would you throw them out?

[lon3lytoaster]

That's over Glen's last ten games. Not much changed. He makes a lot of those shots because he takes a lot of them, simple as that. He's what he is, a volume shooter that should be inside more than out. Think Antoine with less threes and less rebounding.

And I was just saying the the per 36's can be wildly inaccurate as you never know how a player will respond to those type of minutes in a game situation. It's just a hypothetical stat that says what might happen.

[Fafnir]

So you're taking a ten game sample size to dismiss a much larger body of improved shooting? Okay....

And per/36 numbers are not wildly inaccurate when a player has been in the NBA for quite some time and been getting consistent minutes. Players production is usually very consistent on the per minute level.

[Reyquila]

Dont you guys think that Management knows what Daniels can bring to the table? Its not like we are rediscovering the wheel. They know what we know and more.

[clover]

His shooting percentages are awful but I'm not worried, since we won't ask him to shoot too much but more to drive and score in the paint. Plus, he will be playing alonsgside Rasheed and House, two excellent shooters who can spread the floor.

And maybe Ray will teach Marquis how to shoot the ball... but I may be asking too much there. 

haha well, Ray hasn't turned Rondo into a sniper yet so I don't think that'll be be the case with Marquis

But seriously, my concern is with spacing and I'm not entirely sure if we have it to really have an effective bench and help Marquis score. He was signed to score the ball and bring it up court so Eddie wouldn't have to.

The problem with Rasheed shooting the threes is that he isn't going to be rebounding much, that's been the story his entire career. We know he's going to do his thing no matter what, so then where are the boards coming from? Davis is lackluster there, KG's numbers are going down and Perk can't play 48 minutes.

I'm just not sold on the idea that we'll have a really effective bench overall, I guess.

That's one of the ways we'll miss Powe, and why Shelden Williams may have a surprising opportunity to challenge Baby for minutes, I think.

[lon3lytoaster]

So you're taking a ten game sample size to dismiss a much larger body of improved shooting? Okay....

And per/36 numbers are not wildly inaccurate when a player has been in the NBA for quite some time and been getting consistent minutes. Players production is usually very consistent on the per minute level.

I don't know what you want, I gave you his full season shot chart and then his last ten games when he was playing heavy minutes and they're pretty much the same.

Is it that hard to admit he isn't that good of a midrange shooter? Decent, yea ok but not nearly as good as he is cracked up to be around here.

[MaineBleedsGreen]

I just don't feel too comfortable with Daniels playing without Ray, Eddie, and Rasheed at least, cause if he isn't getting to the rim he's not worth having out there.

Daniel's is certainly worth having on the court for his defense and to give Pierce and Ray some rest during the games. I think you're focusing not only one one side of the ball too much, but on one aspect of offense, which is jump shooting. You need to take into consideration all of what Daniels will bring to the team when he's on the court.

If Pierce and Ray are both in foul trouble I can think of multiple lineups that would function just fine with Rondo and Daniels in the lineup... how about RR, House, Daniels, KG, Sheed or RR, House, Daniels, BBD, KG or RR, Daniels, Walker, BBD, Sheed ... I mean we have tons of options.

Also, I don't understand this idea of Daniels as a horrible "shooter". How is a career 45%FG a terrible shooter. He might be a poor jump shooter, and god knows I don't want him taking a single 3 all season, but fact of the matter is he can put the ball in the basket. To say we need "atleast" eddie, ray, and sheed on the court to counter for Daniels shooting deficiency is blowing it way out of proportion. I mean he led rookies in FG% his first season.

[liam]

His shooting percentages are awful but I'm not worried, since we won't ask him to shoot too much but more to drive and score in the paint. Plus, he will be playing alonsgside Rasheed and House, two excellent shooters who can spread the floor.

And maybe Ray will teach Marquis how to shoot the ball... but I may be asking too much there. 

haha well, Ray hasn't turned Rondo into a sniper yet so I don't think that'll be be the case with Marquis

But seriously, my concern is with spacing and I'm not entirely sure if we have it to really have an effective bench and help Marquis score. He was signed to score the ball and bring it up court so Eddie wouldn't have to.

The problem with Rasheed shooting the threes is that he isn't going to be rebounding much, that's been the story his entire career. We know he's going to do his thing no matter what, so then where are the boards coming from? Davis is lackluster there, KG's numbers are going down and Perk can't play 48 minutes.

I'm just not sold on the idea that we'll have a really effective bench overall, I guess.

That's one of the ways we'll miss Powe, and why Shelden Williams may have a surprising opportunity to challenge Baby for minutes, I think.

Just for his rebounding Shelden may get time. He's a rugged rebounder, who likes to play down low. He brings something a little different to the table than our other bigs. Except Perk, who's game is similar. We have a ton of options with the players we have. Kind of the opposite of last year.