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The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« on: September 02, 2009, 07:37:49 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I know this opinion wasn't a very popular one around here not too long ago but, Doc Rivers is a great coach. He's not the right coach for the right team. He's not a bad coach who got lucky to get great players. He's a great coach and here are the non-****ographic pictured reasons why.

As with any great leader of men, Doc has that vision of what needs to be accomplished, visualizes that accomplishment, instills that vision into the men he is leading and then goes about motivating, teaching, managing, planning and coaching his men. His exploit of leaving a spotlight on a blank piece of wall at the Waltham practice facility and telling the team that is where Banner 17 is going is almost Celtic legend now. His taking the Big Three on a duck boat ride and telling them that this is what we will be doing when we win it all this spring was pure genius. He introduced the team to the concept of Ubuntu and the rest was history.

But there's more than that. There's Doc's ability to rally and motivate his players during the thick of things as well and the proof of this goes beyond just this year. Doc Rivers' teams never give in. It doesn't matter if they are too young, too inexperienced, too beat up, too far behind, too dejected or too fed up with just about anything. Doc's teams come back and Doc's teams are tenacious in giving everything they have to win games. Remember the 18 game losing streak? Was there ever a team that lost that many straight games that were in and probably should have won as many games as that team? It's because they gave it everything, every game to try to win and never gave up. Doc has an uncanny knack of getting everything he can out of his players, whether they like him or not and only the greatest of coaches can do that.

And there's also Doc's ability to teach and grow youth. This is a fact and you can look it up, Doc never had a young player that he refused to give minutes to that went on to become something big somewhere else. And that's in over a decade of coaching. If you're a young player and you have talent, you have played meaningful minutes for Doc and your game has grown and flourished and Doc had a hand in your eventual development into the player you are.

And I don't want to here that he only has played young players because he was forced to because there is not one shred of evidence of that being true. Just conjecture. The fact remains that young players have become stars under his tutelage, that young players have learned the game and become the most they could while with him and that young players that had talent always saw the floor and reached their potential under and because of Doc. Rondo, Perk, Big Al, Gomes, Baby, Leon, Delonte, Corey Maggette, Tracy McGrady, Pat Garrity, Mike Miller, Ben Wallace.

Another reason for Doc's greatness as a coach is his understanding of the game and the mind and psyche of the modern NBA player. The blending of those two things is what makes him great. Too many either just don't have the understanding of the modern player or major flaws in their basketball coaching skills or aren't great teachers or aren't great managers and it is their undoing. Doc thrives and survives and overcomes and excels where others do not because he does have such a firm grip on all these aspects of basketball and coaching.

And because of these things, his players usually love him for it and listen and do what needs to be done. Results are attained and Doc teams usually do a lot better than most would ever have thought of. Having and keeping player loyalties is a difficult ability nowadays but the great ones always do and Doc always has.

And while Doc is great, Doc is not perfect. He has his pimples but he acknowledges them and takes the blame when they are the cause of failure. And best of all, he does learn and change. But change is a thing that men do not like and as always change is something that comes slowly, even for Doc. But over the years I have seen change in him and he has corrected some of his flaws. And that, my friends, is also a mark of greatness.
 

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2009, 07:58:48 AM »

Offline JSD

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He's such a likable guy too isn't he? He seems humble, humorous and honest during his press conferences which I look forward to after every game. I get the impression he's a down to earth guy you could sit and have an Octoberfest with. No wonder the ego's get checked at the door with him. Now, Does he drive me crazy at times with some of his decisions? Of course he does and I'll be the first to critique something he does that I don't agree with. Also, he makes the right decision far more than not.

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2009, 09:27:12 AM »

Offline Global Celtic

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I’m from Portugal and I often compare Doc with brazilian soccer coach Luiz Filipe Scolari, the former coach of the portuguese national team. Great motivators who excel in the difficult task of instiling team-spirit into a bunch of milionaires.

But, like Scolari and the Portuguese soccer team, the Celtics seem to be successfull because of their individual talents AND the fact that Garnett, Pierce and Ray are unselfih and relentless competitors. Just like Figo or Cristiano Ronaldo, they carry everyone else with them with their talent and their example. But...

I think the Celtics don’t have a truly organized system on the court. Sometimes I feel the Celtics don’t have plays, they just go with the flow (Rondo). I remember the pre-Big Three Doc. It's easy to praise Doc now, but back then you couldn’t understand his rotations. You couldn't understand why he waited so long to play Big Al. He waited too long to play Leon. He waited too long to play Rondo (major minutes in the last games of his rookie season). It‘s the same with Billy Walker.

Contrary to what you said, he never took blame for the failures (you disagree? Find me a quote). There's even a tremendous, sarcastic article of Bill Simmons about that. It's called The Ugly Side of Ubuntu.
Doc later said the he never failed when managing a good team... Why, thank you Doc!!

But I kinda like Doc. I don’t think he’ll ever be an elite coach like Phill Jackson or Greg Popovich. But he's been good in the last two seasons, and he’s getting better.

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2009, 09:54:45 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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I’m from Portugal and I often compare Doc with brazilian soccer coach Luiz Filipe Scolari, the former coach of the portuguese national team. Great motivators who excel in the difficult task of instiling team-spirit into a bunch of milionaires.

But, like Scolari and the Portuguese soccer team, the Celtics seem to be successfull because of their individual talents AND the fact that Garnett, Pierce and Ray are unselfih and relentless competitors. Just like Figo or Cristiano Ronaldo, they carry everyone else with them with their talent and their example. But...

I think the Celtics don’t have a truly organized system on the court. Sometimes I feel the Celtics don’t have plays, they just go with the flow (Rondo). I remember the pre-Big Three Doc. It's easy to praise Doc now, but back then you couldn’t understand his rotations. You couldn't understand why he waited so long to play Big Al. He waited too long to play Leon. He waited too long to play Rondo (major minutes in the last games of his rookie season). It‘s the same with Billy Walker.

Contrary to what you said, he never took blame for the failures (you disagree? Find me a quote). There's even a tremendous, sarcastic article of Bill Simmons about that. It's called The Ugly Side of Ubuntu.
Doc later said the he never failed when managing a good team... Why, thank you Doc!!

But I kinda like Doc. I don’t think he’ll ever be an elite coach like Phill Jackson or Greg Popovich. But he's been good in the last two seasons, and he’s getting better.

And like most Americans that think soccer doesn't have set plays or strategies and would be wrong, you sir, are wrong about that the Celtics do not have set plays.

Notice the play where KG gets in the post and is fed the ball while the player feeding him runs right by using KG as a pick. That play has an option for KG to pass to the player cutting to the basket. He has the option to take the turnaround jumper. He has the option to go to the post. And he has the option to feed it back outside where the ball is then passed around the perimeter back to the player that originally fed him the ball for an open jumper because his man has been picked not only by KG but by the other big on the floor as he rotates toward the basket from the high post.

Then there is the 1-3 high screen play that is designed to get a switch of the PG onto Paul Pierce at the foul line extended so that he can move to the basket on the much smaller man or just shoot over him. Ray and Eddie running to the corner on fast breaks is by design. Paul and Posey following and stopping at the three point line on a break from straight away as a trailer is by design. The defensive switches and rotations are by design. Watch the defense closely and it is the same defense being run during the Big Al era only this time it is being run correctly.

Also, regarding the length of time it took to finally play Gomes and Rondo and others. Again, that's conjecture. It is more reasonable, I believe, to assume that the young players were not doing what they were supposed to be doing correctly and were being disciplined for it. Players earn time in Doc's system. They are not given time. And if it takes sitting a player down and telling them they are not doing things right and sitting them until they are doing things right in practice so that Doc can be assured they will do it right in games, then that's what it takes. And THAT, to me is what happened with those young players.

As for admitting mistakes, I remember many post game press conferences where Doc said he lost that game. That he didn't prepare the team properly. That he didn't have the team ready to play. One I remember was after one of the losses in Atlanta in the 2008 playoffs but I don't remember if it was in a post game presser or on an interview on WEEI.


Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2009, 11:33:19 AM »

Offline GJPBoston

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Quote
I know this opinion wasn't a very popular one around here not too long ago but, Doc Rivers is a great coach. He's not the right coach for the right team. He's not a bad coach who got lucky to get great players. He's a great coach and here are the non-****ographic pictured reasons why.

I agree.  Doc is often criticized for not playing the young player de'jeure (whether that is Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Powe, Giddens, or Walker), but this is usually because Doc is forcing them to earn time and play a certain way.  That is the only way to discipline motivate NBA players.  Playing a rookie 30+ minutes no matter what he does, like what was done with Antoinne Walker, does not help develop the player's game.  For example, Doc forced Perkins to focus on defense and rebounding to get on the floor.  There were periods several years ago when Perkins was not getting a lot of minutes because he was not playing the right way, and people were upset at Doc for not playing Jefferson and Perkins more, but playing them when they have not earned the time, when they have not beat out the veterans (even lousy veterans like Blount and LaFrentz) and are not making the rotations and doing the things the veteran players are doing, is counter-productive.  If Doc had played Gerald Green 30 minutes a game and let him chuck up bad shots and not play any defense, that would not have helped Gerald improve.

As for not establishing rotations, Doc had a collection of inconsistent young players and veterans on the down side of their careers (such as Raef LaFrentz) and it was impossible to have a standard rotation because no player (other than Pierce) earned consistent minutes.

Also, I don't think Doc is as enamoured with small ball as some people think.  Before Garnett he went to a small line up sometimes out of desparation and because we did not have good Bigs (our one advantage over many teams was our team speed).  In the championship year he would play Pose at the 4 because Pierce played so many minutes at the 3 and Pose was probably the 4th best player on the team and needed minutes.  I don't think we will see small line ups often this year with Rasheed being able to play both C and PF (and with Baby, Scal, and Williams fighting for the remaining 10-15 minutes at C and PF).

That said, I don't always agree with Doc's decisions, especially re: PG substitutions, but I also admit that there may be reasons for his decisions that I cann't possibly know.

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2009, 11:49:28 AM »

Offline Greeny

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I am sold on Doc as a person. Nice guy.
He signed my son's 2007/2008 schedule poster at open practice two years ago.

I don't always agree with his love of TA and substitutions, but he is, in my eyes, a great coach and communicator. I love his press conferences and interviews.

Doc didn't let the team quit in the Finals when losing to the Lakers by more than 20.
That defines a good coach that turned the series back to the Celtics, and won a NBA title.
By the way, Jerry Sloan is going to the Hall of Fame this Friday... 0 titles.

Some guy named Jordan is too.


Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2009, 12:03:24 PM »

Offline ManUp

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Doc is definitely a good coach, but I'm not quite ready to call him great.

I do feel comfortable calling the combination of Doc and Thibs great

The defense we have I credit to Thibs without that defense we don't win banner 17.

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2009, 03:13:34 PM »

Offline Finkelskyhook

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The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach

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....See Phil Jackson.  If you are given the best roster in the NBA you should win.

I saw what he did with other rosters without Thibs....This is at-best, an average NBA coach.  AT Best.

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2009, 03:51:59 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach

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....See Phil Jackson.  If you are given the best roster in the NBA you should win.

I saw what he did with other rosters without Thibs....This is at-best, an average NBA coach.  AT Best.
By that logic so is Red Auerbach, Pat Riley, the aforementioned Phil Jackson, and a host of other championship winning coaches.

And Thibs just so happened to come aboard at the same time the talent did. So maybe Thibs isn't so hot considering he assisted a bunch of other coaches and never won a championship with them, so it could also be established, by your logic, that Coach T is pretty mediocre at best as well as he only won a title when the talent was here.

Of course a lot of Thibs coached teams had a lot of talent and won nothing and Doc's never really had a lot of teams with a lot of talent so maybe by that logic, the factor that is different is not the good talent or Thibs but Doc. So I guess by that process of elimination, it means Doc is a great coach.

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2009, 06:12:39 PM »

Offline Drucci

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TP Nick : great post and great portrayal of Doc! I really like him as a coach and he seems so humble and cool that I would really love to have a conversation with him.

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2009, 07:19:52 PM »

Offline incoherent

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That 18 game losing streak you speak of... I could not agree more.

That entire season was filled with games we should have been blown out of but instead we were fighting for a W in the final minutes, with a roster filled with youth / rookies.

That was a great season despite it's failures.  Doc turned a bunch of no name unproven talents into KG and Ray Allen.

I've always thought he was a good coach... that shouldn't even be in question anymore.

EDIT: My dad 'donated' a lot of money to play a round of golf with Rivers, and he said that Doc never hesitated even the slightest to answer any of his questions about the players/team.

Re: The Real Reasons Why Doc is a Great Coach
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2009, 11:14:03 PM »

Offline Greeny

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That 18 game losing streak you speak of... I could not agree more.

That entire season was filled with games we should have been blown out of but instead we were fighting for a W in the final minutes, with a roster filled with youth / rookies.

That was a great season despite it's failures.  Doc turned a bunch of no name unproven talents into KG and Ray Allen.

I've always thought he was a good coach... that shouldn't even be in question anymore.

EDIT: My dad 'donated' a lot of money to play a round of golf with Rivers, and he said that Doc never hesitated even the slightest to answer any of his questions about the players/team.


Even the games the C's lost in the last 2 year, they always fought to the end, and sometimes with a great shot we won. AKA Toronto

I gave you a TP for mentioning you Dad and Doc.
That is what I like about Doc...he is down to earth, and appreciates his job and fans.