Blame Danny for Tony and Powe

[jdub1660]

It just hit me a bit ago. I was thinking of what teams would want Tony Allen. Not many if any, but remember last summer the Thunder wanted him. For whatever reason, Danny Ainge decided to give this guy a 2 year half Mid Lvl Exp contract. After coming off knee surgery,etc, it was risk, but the more "loyal" thing to do. As you see, it was a bad move since Tony proved himself worthless since. I believe Ainge had used up his last bit of "injury forgiveness" on Tony Allen that could have been used on Powe. Its more than just "we don't have enough roster spots", it's Ainge didn't want to make the same mistake twice. Agree to disagree or what?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Well you're interested in discussing the actual facts, let me know. The circumstances were quite different and you assessment of TA is very inaccurate.

This "worthless" bit really has to stop because it just isn't true in any shape or form.

[nickagneta]

Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

[Greenbean]

Well you're interested in discussing the actual facts, let me know. The circumstances were quite different and you assessment of TA is very inaccurate.

This "worthless" bit really has to stop because it just isn't true in any shape or form.

What did Tony Allen contribute to the Boston Celtics last year? I actually love Tony and think he can succeed somewhere else but he was worthless last year.  Tough to argue against that.

As far as the OP's logic on Danny not taking a chance on Powe because of Tony...that is quite a stretch. They were two entirely different situations. Last year Danny just got done doing a wole lot of nothing (couldnt sign Posey or bring in a replacement etc) and he was left with one option... Tony Allen, and I thought it was a decent gamble to hope he could return to form. He actually proved to be healthy but incredibly indecisive and lacking confidence. This year, Danny added Sheed, and negotiations with BBD took longer than expected. By the time we signed BBD and were ready to give Powe an offer, it was apparently too late. This time however, we actually replaced the player in question with an upgrade (Sheed). Long story short...I disagree

[Greenbean]

Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

Pietrus absolutely yes...but I would rather have Eddie than Mason..not really sold on him. Was Pietrus available that deep into free agency? Wow...Danny missed out on that one. Good call.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Well you're interested in discussing the actual facts, let me know. The circumstances were quite different and you assessment of TA is very inaccurate.

This "worthless" bit really has to stop because it just isn't true in any shape or form.

What did Tony Allen contribute to the Boston Celtics last year? I actually love Tony and think he can succeed somewhere else but he was worthless last year.  Tough to argue against that.

As far as the OP's logic on Danny not taking a chance on Powe because of Tony...that is quite a stretch. They were two entirely different situations. Last year Danny just got done doing a wole lot of nothing (couldnt sign Posey or bring in a replacement etc) and he was left with one option... Tony Allen, and I thought it was a decent gamble to hope he could return to form. He actually proved to be healthy but incredibly indecisive and lacking confidence. This year, Danny added Sheed, and negotiations with BBD took longer than expected. By the time we signed BBD and were ready to give Powe an offer, it was apparently too late. This time however, we actually replaced the player in question with an upgrade (Sheed). Long story short...I disagree

TA was having a good/decent year UNTIL he got injured. That changes things. People try to argue that TA is intrinsically a worthless player, which he isn't. Now if someone wants to argue that his health prevents him from being a reliable player, then I agree to that. But TA is quite a useful player to have, he has simply shown to have some really tough breaks with his injuries, particularly when he's finally getting into a good rhythm after recovering from a previous one.

How easy is for people to explain away Ray's poor play against Orlando due to injury, but with TA his ankle injury and his late season thumb surgery which kept him off the court for a substantial portion of the year mean nothing... oh and he also needed to have a surgery on his ankle after the season was over. But yeah, that's certainly not important when evaluating TA's performance.

Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

I can vouch for that since you sold me on the idea of Roger Mason.  Coincidentally, he wasn't of much use in the playoffs, even though he had some good games early in the series. But he faded away.

As for Pietrus, I like him. Interesting to see the level of interest here, since by all accounts he's a dumb player, and dumb players aren't the cup of tea here. But I like him, he can defend, is athletic, can shoot the 3.

But to be fair, he got a contract almost at the full MLE for 4 years, which included a player option. Considering that we had quite a few holes to fill last year, he seems a bit out of our price range. We might've had Pietrus, but resigning House wouldn't have been possible... so who would've we gotten with the vet. min. to accompany Pietrus? Of course, this is assuming Pietrus would've picked us over hot sunny Orlando.

[jdub1660]

Well you're interested in discussing the actual facts, let me know. The circumstances were quite different and you assessment of TA is very inaccurate.

This "worthless" bit really has to stop because it just isn't true in any shape or form.

Yea. Sorry to say but Tony was definitely worthless last year. I too had some sort of hope he could "kinda" fill in a few mins at SF but he couldn't. He's not a good shooter, so he can't play our SG. And he sure the hell can't dribble the ball w/o turning it over. Whether or not we had his "bird rights" or not, he shouldn't have been signed for 2 years if even at all. If Danny would have let Tony end up as a Thunder, then this year we'd have another open spot.
As for the negotiations of Sheed and BBD affecting Powe's contract? Makes little sense b/c Boston offered him a contract AFTER he agreed to go to Cleveland. And that was well after Sheed was signed, and was at least a few days after BBD agreed to his 2 year deal. Ainge slipped up. Admit it. He's remorse on injured Tony had some sort of effect on this whole thing, whether it be of signing injured players or having not enough roster spots for inactive players.

[Greenbean]

Well you're interested in discussing the actual facts, let me know. The circumstances were quite different and you assessment of TA is very inaccurate.

This "worthless" bit really has to stop because it just isn't true in any shape or form.

What did Tony Allen contribute to the Boston Celtics last year? I actually love Tony and think he can succeed somewhere else but he was worthless last year.  Tough to argue against that.

As far as the OP's logic on Danny not taking a chance on Powe because of Tony...that is quite a stretch. They were two entirely different situations. Last year Danny just got done doing a wole lot of nothing (couldnt sign Posey or bring in a replacement etc) and he was left with one option... Tony Allen, and I thought it was a decent gamble to hope he could return to form. He actually proved to be healthy but incredibly indecisive and lacking confidence. This year, Danny added Sheed, and negotiations with BBD took longer than expected. By the time we signed BBD and were ready to give Powe an offer, it was apparently too late. This time however, we actually replaced the player in question with an upgrade (Sheed). Long story short...I disagree

TA was having a good/decent year UNTIL he got injured. That changes things. People try to argue that TA is intrinsically a worthless player, which he isn't. Now if someone wants to argue that his health prevents him from being a reliable player, then I agree to that. But TA is quite a useful player to have, he has simply shown to have some really tough breaks with his injuries, particularly when he's finally getting into a good rhythm after recovering from a previous one.

How easy is for people to explain away Ray's poor play against Orlando due to injury, but with TA his ankle injury and his late season thumb surgery which kept him off the court for a substantial portion of the year mean nothing... oh and he also needed to have a surgery on his ankle after the season was over. But yeah, that's certainly not important when evaluating TA's performance.

Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

I can vouch for that since you sold me on the idea of Roger Mason.  Coincidentally, he wasn't of much use in the playoffs, even though he had some good games early in the series. But he faded away.

As for Pietrus, I like him. Interesting to see the level of interest here, since by all accounts he's a dumb player, and dumb players aren't the cup of tea here. But I like him, he can defend, is athletic, can shoot the 3.

But to be fair, he got a contract almost at the full MLE for 4 years, which included a player option. Considering that we had quite a few holes to fill last year, he seems a bit out of our price range. We might've had Pietrus, but resigning House wouldn't have been possible... so who would've we gotten with the vet. min. to accompany Pietrus? Of course, this is assuming Pietrus would've picked us over hot sunny Orlando.

No matter how you spin WHY he was worthless..whether it be because of injuries or inconsistent and unpredictable play...the fact reamins..he did not contribute

[BudweiserCeltic]

Well you're interested in discussing the actual facts, let me know. The circumstances were quite different and you assessment of TA is very inaccurate.

This "worthless" bit really has to stop because it just isn't true in any shape or form.

Yea. Sorry to say but Tony was definitely worthless last year. I too had some sort of hope he could "kinda" fill in a few mins at SF but he couldn't. He's not a good shooter, so he can't play our SG. And he sure the hell can't dribble the ball w/o turning it over. Whether or not we had his "bird rights" or not, he shouldn't have been signed for 2 years if even at all. If Danny would have let Tony end up as a Thunder, then this year we'd have another open spot.
As for the negotiations of Sheed and BBD affecting Powe's contract? Makes little sense b/c Boston offered him a contract AFTER he agreed to go to Cleveland. And that was well after Sheed was signed, and was at least a few days after BBD agreed to his 2 year deal. Ainge slipped up. Admit it. He's remorse on injured Tony had some sort of effect on this whole thing, whether it be of signing injured players or having not enough roster spots for inactive players.

A ton of assumptions that ammount to nothing. As for TA being worthless, look one post above yours. He could actually fill in quite nicely at the SG and SF positions, circumstances prevented him from performing his role. Not much to do with him as a player, but external factors.

As for an open spot being opened? Well if it wasn't TA that was signed someone else would've and a good chance that it would've been for more than 1 year. Now who might that be? Would he have been a substantial improvement from TA if an improvement at all? And considering that he might've needed to be signed with the MLE, how would've that affected any other potential moves with limited resources?

[BudweiserCeltic]

Well you're interested in discussing the actual facts, let me know. The circumstances were quite different and you assessment of TA is very inaccurate.

This "worthless" bit really has to stop because it just isn't true in any shape or form.

What did Tony Allen contribute to the Boston Celtics last year? I actually love Tony and think he can succeed somewhere else but he was worthless last year.  Tough to argue against that.

As far as the OP's logic on Danny not taking a chance on Powe because of Tony...that is quite a stretch. They were two entirely different situations. Last year Danny just got done doing a wole lot of nothing (couldnt sign Posey or bring in a replacement etc) and he was left with one option... Tony Allen, and I thought it was a decent gamble to hope he could return to form. He actually proved to be healthy but incredibly indecisive and lacking confidence. This year, Danny added Sheed, and negotiations with BBD took longer than expected. By the time we signed BBD and were ready to give Powe an offer, it was apparently too late. This time however, we actually replaced the player in question with an upgrade (Sheed). Long story short...I disagree

TA was having a good/decent year UNTIL he got injured. That changes things. People try to argue that TA is intrinsically a worthless player, which he isn't. Now if someone wants to argue that his health prevents him from being a reliable player, then I agree to that. But TA is quite a useful player to have, he has simply shown to have some really tough breaks with his injuries, particularly when he's finally getting into a good rhythm after recovering from a previous one.

How easy is for people to explain away Ray's poor play against Orlando due to injury, but with TA his ankle injury and his late season thumb surgery which kept him off the court for a substantial portion of the year mean nothing... oh and he also needed to have a surgery on his ankle after the season was over. But yeah, that's certainly not important when evaluating TA's performance.

Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

I can vouch for that since you sold me on the idea of Roger Mason.  Coincidentally, he wasn't of much use in the playoffs, even though he had some good games early in the series. But he faded away.

As for Pietrus, I like him. Interesting to see the level of interest here, since by all accounts he's a dumb player, and dumb players aren't the cup of tea here. But I like him, he can defend, is athletic, can shoot the 3.

But to be fair, he got a contract almost at the full MLE for 4 years, which included a player option. Considering that we had quite a few holes to fill last year, he seems a bit out of our price range. We might've had Pietrus, but resigning House wouldn't have been possible... so who would've we gotten with the vet. min. to accompany Pietrus? Of course, this is assuming Pietrus would've picked us over hot sunny Orlando.

No matter how you spin WHY he was worthless..whether it be because of injuries or inconsistent and unpredictable play...the fact reamins..he did not contribute

No need for spin, facts are facts. And it's quite important to know the WHY of things. Else, let's just give Garnett away since he was clearly worthless himself... in fact, we did quite well without him. I know exaggeration, still injuries are factors and need to be attributed appropiately.

Anyways, TA's value is not limited to how he plays the game. There's still a long way to go before the season is over, certainly a ton of room to trade him for something better (I really hope it's something better).

[Chris]

Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

The problem was I believe both of them (at least Pietrus anyways) were signed before Posey made his decision.  So they would have had to completely give up on Posey to go after them.

As for Tony, I don't think his injury played into this at all.  Danny looked at other options, but decided none of them were good enough for it to make sense to use the rest of the MLE on them.  Since they had bird rights on Tony, Danny took one last chance with him, allowing them to save some cash to make a run at someone with the remaining half of the MLE later in the season.  It didn't work out.  The Powe situation was completely different.

[Roy Hobbs]

Tony no doubt stinks, and Danny overestimated his ability to contribute, in my opinion.  The spin at the time was that was a more versatile player than Tony and the team wouldn't lose much.  I know that was spin, but it was still nonsense. 

The entire off-season last season was a mess.  Luckily, this summer has been a lot better.

[nickagneta]

Celtics owned his Bird rights and used that to give him that 2 year $5 million contract. Personally I would have preferred they had let Eddie and Tony go and signed Roger Mason or Mickael Pietrus with the full MLE, but that was just me and yes, go back and check the record, that's what I was calling for last year.

The problem was I believe both of them (at least Pietrus anyways) were signed before Posey made his decision.  So they would have had to completely give up on Posey to go after them.

As for Tony, I don't think his injury played into this at all.  Danny looked at other options, but decided none of them were good enough for it to make sense to use the rest of the MLE on them.  Since they had bird rights on Tony, Danny took one last chance with him, allowing them to save some cash to make a run at someone with the remaining half of the MLE later in the season.  It didn't work out.  The Powe situation was completely different.

If I remember right both players came to agreements with San Antonio and Orlando about a week before Posey came to agreement with New Orleans. Aagain, if I remember right, through newspaper reports and internet reports it was pretty obvious that Posey was accepting a three year deal well before he reached agreement with the Hornets. The C's should have moved on well before that and gone after someone else.

They may not have been able to land Pietrus or Mason, but we will never know because, for all we know, an attempt was never made. It was fairly obvious from the timing of the House and Allen signings after the Posey agreement was made that there was a plan A(Posey) and a plan B(House and Allen). I think we have hashed this out a ridiculous amount of times but at the time a thought both plan A and B were wrong and in retrospect that Allen signing was a horrible one by Danny right up there with Scal's first 3 years and Blount entire signing and the LaFrentz trade.

[CoachBo]

Tony no doubt stinks, and Danny overestimated his ability to contribute, in my opinion.  The spin at the time was that was a more versatile player than Tony and the team wouldn't lose much.  I know that was spin, but it was still nonsense. 

The entire off-season last season was a mess.  Luckily, this summer has been a lot better.

Yup. Been saying that for awhile. The money spent on Tony was wasted, and his injury's just a crutch, but it's just part of a horrid, horrid summer last year. This year has been a lot better, indeed.

[EJPLAYA]

Quite frankly I am tired of the threads ripping Danny. The guy only brought us another title, but built a team that will be a contender for a few years. The guy brought some respect back to the Boston Celtics and made us a place free top level agents would consider going.

As for the TA debate, yes the guy is worthless. We would give him to someone for next to nothing and there are no takers. HE is the reason Daniels isn't under contract yet. This one's easy though. Cut him...

Powe made me a bit sad, but where is the value in signing a guy who likely won't be effective this year and has a player option for the next? We also don't know what the medical staff saw that made them think he wouldn't contribute. When I see Powe part way through the year back out there playing like he did before then I will wish we had signed him, however I won't BLAME Danny. The guy deserves a little credit.