Frontcourt Is Going To Be An Issue This Postseason

[Phantom255x]

Queta has had an awesome season and shown a ton of growth and improvement, and he's absolutely a nice young prospect to continue developing as our long-term starter or at least as part of a tandem with them hopefully acquiring or identifying a second guy in the near future (kind of like Timelord-Horford, Horford-KP, etc.)

For this postseason though, the frontcourt might be a big problem. Queta is racking up fouls early in games, which he had this issue early in the season too where he'd end up fouling out by the middle of the 4th but he got better as the season progressed in terms of reliability and availability. However, it's about to be 2 games out of 3 this postseason already where he's picked up 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes, and is probably only going to go 15-20 minutes. Not ideal.

And then Vucevic and Garza, they have some strengths, and Garza can bring the hustle. But idk if either is a consistent backup playoff big either, at least not yet. None of the 3 are truly polished defensively either and while Queta has the highest ceiling there, he's also committing fouls on some possessions badly.

Maybe it doesn't cost us this round but it could be an issue going forward in the postseason when they play the likes of KAT/Robinson/Okongwu/Duren/Stewart/Mobley/Allen. I moved on from Horford, but can't lie I do miss him in these spots even though I acknowledge even he lost a step last year probably due to age and nagging injuries.

[slamtheking]

Queta has had an awesome season and shown a ton of growth and improvement, and he's absolutely a nice young prospect to continue developing as our long-term starter or at least as part of a tandem with them hopefully acquiring or identifying a second guy in the near future (kind of like Timelord-Horford, Horford-KP, etc.)

For this postseason though, the frontcourt might be a big problem. Queta is racking up fouls early in games, which he had this issue early in the season too where he'd end up fouling out by the middle of the 4th but he got better as the season progressed in terms of reliability and availability. However, it's about to be 2 games out of 3 this postseason already where he's picked up 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes, and is probably only going to go 15-20 minutes. Not ideal.

And then Vucevic and Garza, they have some strengths, and Garza can bring the hustle. But idk if either is a consistent backup playoff big either, at least not yet. None of the 3 are truly polished defensively either and while Queta has the highest ceiling there, he's also committing fouls on some possessions badly.

Maybe it doesn't cost us this round but it could be an issue going forward in the postseason when they play the likes of KAT/Robinson/Okongwu/Duren/Stewart/Mobley/Allen. I moved on from Horford, but can't lie I do miss him in these spots even though I acknowledge even he lost a step last year probably due to age and nagging injuries.

"might be"?  it's been a concern all season.  Vuc isn't cutting it as a backup.  Garza's been really good on the offensive boards and scoring around the basket but he's bad on the defensive boards and defense in general.

definitely an area Brad needs to address in the offseason one way or another

[Moranis]

Maxey doing whatever he wants whenever he wants is a much larger problem.

[SparzWizard]

Ring up AD3 and see if he wants to play for Boston and help win some rings

[Phantom255x]

Queta has had an awesome season and shown a ton of growth and improvement, and he's absolutely a nice young prospect to continue developing as our long-term starter or at least as part of a tandem with them hopefully acquiring or identifying a second guy in the near future (kind of like Timelord-Horford, Horford-KP, etc.)

For this postseason though, the frontcourt might be a big problem. Queta is racking up fouls early in games, which he had this issue early in the season too where he'd end up fouling out by the middle of the 4th but he got better as the season progressed in terms of reliability and availability. However, it's about to be 2 games out of 3 this postseason already where he's picked up 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes, and is probably only going to go 15-20 minutes. Not ideal.

And then Vucevic and Garza, they have some strengths, and Garza can bring the hustle. But idk if either is a consistent backup playoff big either, at least not yet. None of the 3 are truly polished defensively either and while Queta has the highest ceiling there, he's also committing fouls on some possessions badly.

Maybe it doesn't cost us this round but it could be an issue going forward in the postseason when they play the likes of KAT/Robinson/Okongwu/Duren/Stewart/Mobley/Allen. I moved on from Horford, but can't lie I do miss him in these spots even though I acknowledge even he lost a step last year probably due to age and nagging injuries.

"might be"?  it's been a concern all season.  Vuc isn't cutting it as a backup.  Garza's been really good on the offensive boards and scoring around the basket but he's bad on the defensive boards and defense in general.

definitely an area Brad needs to address in the offseason one way or another

Yeah, I guess I meant more that it's gonna get exposed big time in the postseason, and so far it sadly has. If Queta can't control the fouls then it's even more pressure on Garza/Vucevic too, or even Tatum having to play a lot of center minutes

We'll also see how they handle Embiid when he comes back, that'll be tough even if Embiid isn't 100%

[jambr380]

Just a reminder that Brad and ownership punted the season by needing to get under the tax. We traded a better player in Simons and decent pick for Vucevic to save money when we could have kept Simons (and his valuable scoring) and brought in an impact Center with our TPE.

It?s great that Chisholm will get back some tax dollars from the league, but that doesn?t help us this season. And it?s not going to help us next season when we very obviously are going to duck the tax again in order to reset the clock.

All this whole Tatum and Brown are in their primes.

[Who]

Maxey doing whatever he wants whenever he wants is a much larger problem.

D White is more of a team defender than a guy who can pressure quick ball-handlers. I was thinking about OKC's team. Both Caruso and Cason Wallace are better defenders. SGA is on a similar level as D White. They have fantastic guard defense.

I don't think D White should be 1st team All Defense.

[Phantom255x]

Just a reminder that Brad and ownership punted the season by needing to get under the tax. We traded a better player in Simons and decent pick for Vucevic to save money when we could have kept Simons (and his valuable scoring) and brought in an impact Center with our TPE.

It?s great that Chisholm will get back some tax dollars from the league, but that doesn?t help us this season. And it?s not going to help us next season when we very obviously are going to duck the tax again in order to reset the clock.

All this whole Tatum and Brown are in their primes.

Yeah this is also a fair point. I hate it but I guess we just gotta deal with it. Ultimately it'll probably mean Stevens after 2027 will be allowed to make 2 more impactful moves similar to acquiring Jrue/Porzingis and hoping for a 2-3 year window with Tatum and Brown finishing up their prime-peaks (late 20s/early 30s)

[ozgod]

You can't be strong everywhere all the time in this era of the second apron, especially when you're trying to get under the tax to reset the repeater rate. Brad made a decision to duck under the tax now to reduce the marginal cost of future roster decisions, which will presumably be more expensive, with bigger contracts to come for Q, Hugo, Walsh, Garza, Baylor. We're fans so we live in the now, and we want to win the championship every year, so we want to be strong every year.

When I look at our team's deficiencies (and yes there are many) I think of 2 things: a) no other team is strong everywhere (except maybe OKC and that's because this is the last year before some huge contracts kick in for them) and b) in two years, in 2027 onwards, is the time when we will really be in a prime position to spend, and they want that window to occur without having to deal with repeater penalties. Plus that's two more years of development for guys like Q, Hugo, Walsh, Garza, Baylor, etc. should we choose to extend them for bigger numbers or trade them. Being in the repeater tax doesn't really affect the big name signings everyone wants the team to make, it affects the mid-tier ones, having to decide to keep Queta for $10m which becomes $30m after the tax, and $45m after the repeater tax. Then you have to really wonder "is Queta really a $45m player".

So I'm ok with our frontcourt...it's not going to be the greatest, but on the flip side our wing rotation, headed up by the Jays, is probably the most cost effective in the NBA right now. Even with two supermax players we've balanced them with some low cost players who are significantly outperforming their contracts. It's Joe's job to develop an offensive and defensive scheme that maximizes our strengths and takes away the strengths of other teams. That's where it all hinges.

So the way I've kind of looked at it is like this:

Code: [Select]

Short-term sacrifice Long-term gain

Weaker 2025-26 roster $100M+ future savings
Lose some depth now Keep core rotation later
Duck tax by ~$600k Avoid repeater for next spending cycle
So yes you're 100% right our frontcourt is an issue, but it's the sacrifice they made for the long term gain in the future that we will (presumably) appreciate when we, who live in the now, eventually get to two years from now. And even better, we've done much, much better than any of us expected we would. Imagine having this convo about our front court being a weakness for a deep playoff run back in June when we said goodbye to half our championship team 

[Celtics4ever]

Playoff basketball is different.   This will affect all of our bigs, to some degree.   Queta and Garza don't have a lot of playoff experience on the court.  Vuc does not have a ton of winning experience.

These guys are backing up for Maxey a lot to avoid fouls.   You can;t defend the rim if you are backing up under it.  This needs to stop ASAP.   Hold the position, take the foul and make contact so Maxey feels it each time he drives.   They are going to get called for it anyways, so why not hold he position and make him feel the physical costs when he bangs into a heavier guy?

[Neurotic Guy]

It?s a maybe to me. Three games into the playoffs the Cs are 2-1. All isn?t lost.  Legit concern that Q isn?t ready for this level yet and that neither Vuc nor Garza can handle the 5 for high minutes. But I think the team strong and deep, and is transitioning to the playoffs. Same is happening with the Knicks and Pistons.  Good first round competition is to the Celtics benefit.  We?ll see if Q can adjust - he?s been growing all year. 

[Vermont Green]

Just a reminder that Brad and ownership punted the season by needing to get under the tax. We traded a better player in Simons and decent pick for Vucevic to save money when we could have kept Simons (and his valuable scoring) and brought in an impact Center with our TPE.

It?s great that Chisholm will get back some tax dollars from the league, but that doesn?t help us this season. And it?s not going to help us next season when we very obviously are going to duck the tax again in order to reset the clock.

All this whole Tatum and Brown are in their primes.

Not sure I agree with this logic, to be arguing that BOS should not have traded for Vucevic in a thread about how the frontcourt is the team's biggest weakness. 

The pick is a future 2nd round pick, some value, yes, but I am not worrying about that.  What this trade did was trade from a position of more depth (guard/backcourt) for a position that had much less depth (Center/frontcourt).  The team is better for the trade in my view, not worse.  I like the trade and I believe BOS will go farther in the playoffs as a result of the trade.  It is hard to say if Simons is a better player than Vucevic, I don't see it that way, but maybe.  I thought he was fine, but he may not be better than Scheierman.  The point is BOS didn't need another guard.  They needed a Center.

As to the cost savings, that to me is the other thing that is true about this trade.  It did save the team money.  Maybe that is why the 2nd round pick had to be included, to convince CHI to take on the extra money.  If that is the case, I am fine with that.  BOS has plenty of 2nd round picks, more than they will ever use.  To me, this is a good use of a 2nd round pick.

[smicker16]

Just a reminder that Brad and ownership punted the season by needing to get under the tax. We traded a better player in Simons and decent pick for Vucevic to save money when we could have kept Simons (and his valuable scoring) and brought in an impact Center with our TPE.

It?s great that Chisholm will get back some tax dollars from the league, but that doesn?t help us this season. And it?s not going to help us next season when we very obviously are going to duck the tax again in order to reset the clock.

All this whole Tatum and Brown are in their primes.

Not sure I agree with this logic, to be arguing that BOS should not have traded for Vucevic in a thread about how the frontcourt is the team's biggest weakness. 

The pick is a future 2nd round pick, some value, yes, but I am not worrying about that.  What this trade did was trade from a position of more depth (guard/backcourt) for a position that had much less depth (Center/frontcourt).  The team is better for the trade in my view, not worse.  I like the trade and I believe BOS will go farther in the playoffs as a result of the trade.  It is hard to say if Simons is a better player than Vucevic, I don't see it that way, but maybe.  I thought he was fine, but he may not be better than Scheierman.  The point is BOS didn't need another guard.  They needed a Center.

As to the cost savings, that to me is the other thing that is true about this trade.  It did save the team money.  Maybe that is why the 2nd round pick had to be included, to convince CHI to take on the extra money.  If that is the case, I am fine with that.  BOS has plenty of 2nd round picks, more than they will ever use.  To me, this is a good use of a 2nd round pick.

Yeah TP I agree with this. I do not see how Simons would be able to get much playing time. Could not see them playing Pritchard, Garza and Simons together. Feel Simons would get picked on even more than Vooch in the playoffs.

Our frontcourt definitely seems like it will hurt us if they are struggling with Bona and Drummond. However I think a big reason for that is Queta so far. He has been incredible in the regular season but due to foul trouble and quite frankly I think also ineffectiveness he has not been able to average even 20 mpg. We need closer to the Queta who had a career night against the Sixers in the regular season. Cannot expect that type of performance of course but needs to be better than what he is giving us now. I still have hope though for sure that he can adjust to the playoffs a bit more.

[86MaxwellSmart]

Vuc had 3 blocks and three 3s....He's getting more comfortable right now...it was a good trade, considering we needed the insurance of an extra big...Now he'll probably be starting....I'm good with any of our 3 bigs right now and heck, Amari is huge and blocks shots too.

[Phantom255x]

Vuc had 3 blocks and three 3s....He's getting more comfortable right now...it was a good trade, considering we needed the insurance of an extra big...Now he'll probably be starting....I'm good with any of our 3 bigs right now and heck, Amari is huge and blocks shots too.

Yeah I still think Vucevic in the 4th is rough especially when asking him to make an impact defensively but if he can make the right passes and hit some buckets he can still be useful. He was overall pretty solid yesterday given the circumstances. Probably could still shoot a bit better.

Hopefully Queta can use this as a learning experience, down the road we're still gonna need him to be solid and not get in foul trouble early.