Author Topic: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...  (Read 9023 times)

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Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2009, 11:58:48 AM »

Offline MBz

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instead of a big bat, maybe its time to play a little more small ball?

This isn't a small ball team.  Too many strike out guys.  Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Lowell are probably the only ones capable of doing.  Lowrie could eventually be capable of it, he gets the bat on the ball fairly often.  I'd like Martinez, but it would take a lot to get him.  There's plenty of at bats for him, you can platoon him at catcher, 1B, and DH, but if they're going after him, why would they have gone after LaRoche?
do it

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2009, 12:10:33 PM »

Offline Prof. Clutch

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I'm trying not to be negative about the sox but i'm feeling negative about the sox.

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2009, 12:24:17 PM »

Offline winsomme

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instead of a big bat, maybe its time to play a little more small ball?

This isn't a small ball team.  Too many strike out guys.  Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Lowell are probably the only ones capable of doing.  Lowrie could eventually be capable of it, he gets the bat on the ball fairly often.  I'd like Martinez, but it would take a lot to get him.  There's plenty of at bats for him, you can platoon him at catcher, 1B, and DH, but if they're going after him, why would they have gone after LaRoche?

I'm not a big fan of patchwork lineups. we already have the SS situation.

with Victor we would have some mixture of four guys playing 1B and 3B (with V getting some extra time at C)...

I don't know. I'd like a little more stability than that.

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2009, 12:38:14 PM »

Offline CDawg834

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instead of a big bat, maybe its time to play a little more small ball?

This isn't a small ball team.  Too many strike out guys.  Ellsbury, Pedroia, and Lowell are probably the only ones capable of doing.  Lowrie could eventually be capable of it, he gets the bat on the ball fairly often.  I'd like Martinez, but it would take a lot to get him.  There's plenty of at bats for him, you can platoon him at catcher, 1B, and DH, but if they're going after him, why would they have gone after LaRoche?

I would assume they went after LaRoche in case they can't/don't get Martinez, at least they have a Plan B.  Better to have LaRoche than nobody, I suppose.

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2009, 12:44:03 PM »

Offline MBz

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Right, but what do you do with LaRoche once you get Martinez?
do it

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2009, 12:44:56 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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I'm actually more concerned about the starting pitching at the moment. Pitching is what will win or lose in the playoffs, and after Beckett, everyone else has been so so or worse. Buchholz hasn't impressed either. They should trade for Halladay immediately.

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2009, 12:48:55 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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Our farm system is so stacked that I bet we can trade about 6 prospects in two deals and still have a middle of the road farm system. I bet we go out and get either Victor Martinez and/or Adrian Gonzalex as well as Halladay or another pitcher like Bedard.
DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2009, 01:08:57 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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BTW...

All kinds of good stuff from ESPN's Buster Olney (Insider required and recommended).

The big news: the Red Sox and Padres talked "at length" about an Adrian Gonzalez trade Wednesday night.  Those discussions are expected to resume today; of course you can expect top prospects to be involved.
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2009, 01:30:16 PM »

Offline Rondoholic

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In Theo we trust!

I think the team is certainly looking for a boost.  Theo needs to provide one.  The problem is WHERE?  Who do you dump?

Haha.  All the love for Theo is just ridiculous.  If you look at this guy's moves outside of pretty solid drafting, he has been horrendous.  Want proof?

1.  Didn't re-sign Cabrera - wasted tons of $$ on Renteria/Lugo at SS
2.  JD Drew may be the most overpaid athlete of all-time
3.  Spent 100 mill on Daisuke who has been horrendous this season
4.  Trade for Beckett and Lowell (for Hanley) was actually not done by him as he was on his sabbatical while whining about his contract and rumor has it that he would not have gone through with the trade if he had a say
5.  Nomar for Cabrera & Mientkiewicz - ok but did those guys really win us the WS that year?
6.  Manny for Bay - ok considering he had quit on us but Bay is coming back to earth
7.  Reportedly heavily targeting Adrian Gonzalez when Victor Martinez (a huge need bc Tek is such a liability offensively) and Halladay are out there - he is overvaluing Bucholz...if they get Gonzalez even after getting Laroche, I have lost complete faith in Theo.  Gonzalez is batting under .250, check it out!

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2009, 01:34:57 PM »

Offline Redz

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In Theo we trust!

I think the team is certainly looking for a boost.  Theo needs to provide one.  The problem is WHERE?  Who do you dump?

Haha.  All the love for Theo is just ridiculous.  If you look at this guy's moves outside of pretty solid drafting, he has been horrendous.  Want proof?

1.  Didn't re-sign Cabrera - wasted tons of $$ on Renteria/Lugo at SS
2.  JD Drew may be the most overpaid athlete of all-time
3.  Spent 100 mill on Daisuke who has been horrendous this season
4.  Trade for Beckett and Lowell (for Hanley) was actually not done by him as he was on his sabbatical while whining about his contract and rumor has it that he would not have gone through with the trade if he had a say
5.  Nomar for Cabrera & Mientkiewicz - ok but did those guys really win us the WS that year?
6.  Manny for Bay - ok considering he had quit on us but Bay is coming back to earth
7.  Reportedly heavily targeting Adrian Gonzalez when Victor Martinez (a huge need bc Tek is such a liability offensively) and Halladay are out there - he is overvaluing Bucholz...if they get Gonzalez even after getting Laroche, I have lost complete faith in Theo.  Gonzalez is batting under .250, check it out!


2 rings
Yup

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2009, 01:35:27 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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In Theo we trust!

I think the team is certainly looking for a boost.  Theo needs to provide one.  The problem is WHERE?  Who do you dump?

Haha.  All the love for Theo is just ridiculous.  If you look at this guy's moves outside of pretty solid drafting, he has been horrendous.  Want proof?

1.  Didn't re-sign Cabrera - wasted tons of $$ on Renteria/Lugo at SSCabrera has since bounced from team to team beacause of off field issues
2.  JD Drew may be the most overpaid athlete of all-timeHit a grand slam against clevland which lead us to the world series
3.  Spent 100 mill on Daisuke who has been horrendous this seasonwent 18-3 last year
4.  Trade for Beckett and Lowell (for Hanley) was actually not done by him as he was on his sabbatical while whining about his contractIt is a well known fact that he was consulted on this deal
5.  Nomar for Cabrera & Mientkiewicz - ok but did those guys really win us the WS that year?we would not have won the WS without them and you are already arguing that he should have extended Cabrera
6.  Manny for Bay - ok considering he had quit on us but Bay is coming back to earthRed Sox runs per game increased last year after they got rid of Manny
7.  Reportedly heavily targeting Adrian Gonzalez when Victor Martinez (a huge need bc Tek is such a liability offensively) and Halladay are out there - he is overvaluing [Bucholz...if they get Gonzalez even after getting Laroche, I have lost complete faith in Theo.  Gonzalez is batting under .250, check it out!Victor is more a 1b than a C and although he is hitting under 2.50 he is cheap and under control for a more years and has hit 30+HR and 100+RBI last two seasons
Check it out
CB Draft LA Lakers: Lamarcus Aldridge, Carmelo Anthony,Jrue Holiday, Wes Matthews  6.11, 7.16, 8.14, 8.15, 9.16, 11.5, 11.16

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2009, 01:41:55 PM »

Offline Redz

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In Theo we trust!

I think the team is certainly looking for a boost.  Theo needs to provide one.  The problem is WHERE?  Who do you dump?

Haha.  All the love for Theo is just ridiculous.  If you look at this guy's moves outside of pretty solid drafting, he has been horrendous.  Want proof?

1.  Didn't re-sign Cabrera - wasted tons of $$ on Renteria/Lugo at SSCabrera has since bounced from team to team beacause of off field issues
2.  JD Drew may be the most overpaid athlete of all-timeHit a grand slam against clevland which lead us to the world series
3.  Spent 100 mill on Daisuke who has been horrendous this seasonwent 18-3 last year
4.  Trade for Beckett and Lowell (for Hanley) was actually not done by him as he was on his sabbatical while whining about his contractIt is a well known fact that he was consulted on this deal
5.  Nomar for Cabrera & Mientkiewicz - ok but did those guys really win us the WS that year?we would not have won the WS without them and you are already arguing that he should have extended Cabrera
6.  Manny for Bay - ok considering he had quit on us but Bay is coming back to earthRed Sox runs per game increased last year after they got rid of Manny
7.  Reportedly heavily targeting Adrian Gonzalez when Victor Martinez (a huge need bc Tek is such a liability offensively) and Halladay are out there - he is overvaluing [Bucholz...if they get Gonzalez even after getting Laroche, I have lost complete faith in Theo.  Gonzalez is batting under .250, check it out!Victor is more a 1b than a C and although he is hitting under 2.50 he is cheap and under control for a more years and has hit 30+HR and 100+RBI last two seasons
Check it out

At least you two agree about Rondo...

I will point back to my simple reason for supporting Theo's decision making: 2 rings
Yup

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2009, 01:49:04 PM »

Offline Rondoholic

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In Theo we trust!

I think the team is certainly looking for a boost.  Theo needs to provide one.  The problem is WHERE?  Who do you dump?

Haha.  All the love for Theo is just ridiculous.  If you look at this guy's moves outside of pretty solid drafting, he has been horrendous.  Want proof?

1.  Didn't re-sign Cabrera - wasted tons of $$ on Renteria/Lugo at SSCabrera has since bounced from team to team beacause of off field issues
2.  JD Drew may be the most overpaid athlete of all-timeHit a grand slam against clevland which lead us to the world series
3.  Spent 100 mill on Daisuke who has been horrendous this seasonwent 18-3 last year
4.  Trade for Beckett and Lowell (for Hanley) was actually not done by him as he was on his sabbatical while whining about his contractIt is a well known fact that he was consulted on this deal
5.  Nomar for Cabrera & Mientkiewicz - ok but did those guys really win us the WS that year?we would not have won the WS without them and you are already arguing that he should have extended Cabrera
6.  Manny for Bay - ok considering he had quit on us but Bay is coming back to earthRed Sox runs per game increased last year after they got rid of Manny
7.  Reportedly heavily targeting Adrian Gonzalez when Victor Martinez (a huge need bc Tek is such a liability offensively) and Halladay are out there - he is overvaluing [Bucholz...if they get Gonzalez even after getting Laroche, I have lost complete faith in Theo.  Gonzalez is batting under .250, check it out!Victor is more a 1b than a C and although he is hitting under 2.50 he is cheap and under control for a more years and has hit 30+HR and 100+RBI last two seasons
Check it out

1.  We should have extended Cabrera because he wanted like 4 yrs/$25M, less than we ended up giving to either Renteria or Lugo.  And although Cabrera has bounced around, he is still a more valued commodity than either Renteria or Lugo.  We salary dumped Lugo and I'm not even sure Renteria plays everyday in San Fran or wherever he is now.

2.  $17 million or whatever it is for 1 grand slam.  his grand slam is just our rationale for explaining his albatross of a contract.

3.  daisuke had a good year last year, but everyone was saying even last year that it was only a matter of time before his high WHIP, etc. caught up to him.  plus, that record was surely inflated by our lofty run support.

4.  I have heard conflicting reports that he was not very supportive of this deal.  But I must confess that this trade was basically a win-win for the teams involved.  Having Hanley would surely solve our SS woes at the moment, but I'll take the '07 versions of Beckett and Lowell.

5.  I like Cabrera, but I was more arguing for his extension because of value...not necessarily his outstanding play.  For the sake of argument, let's say that they directly contributed to the title in a way that Nomar could not have.  

6.  Manny dominated for 8 years in Boston!  Bay had a good second half in the AL where AL pitchers had never seen him, which caused our avg. runs to increase.  Now, that he has had a full season in the AL, are pitchers starting to get a read on his weaknesses?  I'm afraid it could be the case, but I must admit - I do like Bay.

7.  Adrian Gonzalez's lack of versatility in comparison to Victor is a big deal.  I am comfortable with Youk, Lowell, Laroche, and Victor at the corners.  And feel much better about C w/ Martinez platooning with Tek.

Look, Theo has made some good moves but he has also made some widely-criticized, horrible moves.  I am just saying, he is nothing special.  A lot of his good moves would have been made by any competent GM with money to spend.  In Belichek we trust.  That guy actually finds value in signings and trades.  It is just a cliche when it comes to Theo in my opinion.  He is a media-darling and that contributes to his perception by those outside of Boston.  For fans, I think a good number of us are just trying to rationalize his moves in "homer" mode.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2009, 01:55:41 PM by Rondoholic »

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2009, 04:50:56 PM »

Offline MBz

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I do believe that management was part of the issue with Manny, had they picked up the extension from the start, none of this would have happened.  Honestly, do we think they wouldn't have done it?  I mean it was a sure fire thing they we're going to pick it up, they should have just done it from the start to please Manny.
do it

Re: Im trying not to be negative about the Sox But...
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2009, 04:56:55 PM »

Offline Cman

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In Theo we trust!

I think the team is certainly looking for a boost.  Theo needs to provide one.  The problem is WHERE?  Who do you dump?

Haha.  All the love for Theo is just ridiculous.  If you look at this guy's moves outside of pretty solid drafting, he has been horrendous.  Want proof?

1.  Didn't re-sign Cabrera - wasted tons of $$ on Renteria/Lugo at SSCabrera has since bounced from team to team beacause of off field issues
2.  JD Drew may be the most overpaid athlete of all-timeHit a grand slam against clevland which lead us to the world series
3.  Spent 100 mill on Daisuke who has been horrendous this seasonwent 18-3 last year
4.  Trade for Beckett and Lowell (for Hanley) was actually not done by him as he was on his sabbatical while whining about his contractIt is a well known fact that he was consulted on this deal
5.  Nomar for Cabrera & Mientkiewicz - ok but did those guys really win us the WS that year?we would not have won the WS without them and you are already arguing that he should have extended Cabrera
6.  Manny for Bay - ok considering he had quit on us but Bay is coming back to earthRed Sox runs per game increased last year after they got rid of Manny
7.  Reportedly heavily targeting Adrian Gonzalez when Victor Martinez (a huge need bc Tek is such a liability offensively) and Halladay are out there - he is overvaluing [Bucholz...if they get Gonzalez even after getting Laroche, I have lost complete faith in Theo.  Gonzalez is batting under .250, check it out!Victor is more a 1b than a C and although he is hitting under 2.50 he is cheap and under control for a more years and has hit 30+HR and 100+RBI last two seasons
Check it out

At least you two agree about Rondo...

I will point back to my simple reason for supporting Theo's decision making: 2 rings

TP, you beat me to it!
Celtics fan for life.