Mark Murphy update: Moon interest waning, other S & Ts waxing

[BballTim]

having giddens, tony or bill get important minutes each night where they HAVE to have some thing offensively from them and they are required to play good defense night in and night in concerns me. tony allen has already proven that he can single handedly shoot the celtics out of a lead and out of a game. i would rather roll the dice with pruitt and sign a legit wing than sign a PG and roll the dice with those 3

  First of all, you don't have to play the entire bench at once. Secondly, if you have Sheed, Davis, Eddie and a decent pg going against mainly backups why would you be so dependent on your backup sf for offense? And Tony's no great player but his being a negative influence on the team has been wildly exaggerated.

[celticinorlando]

i just would feel comfortable with a guy behind pierce that can contribute. i tdon't think walker nor allen is that guy.

[ssspence]

I think Kleiza and Warrick are off the board. They'd cost too much, in both salary and trade assets. I don't think they're attainable.

Disagree. A Warrick for Baby deal makes alot of sense for both teams and their salaries are likely to be pretty close, making the BYC situation more managable.

Why do you think Memphis be interested in Glen Davis?

They already have Marc Gasol, Hasheem Thabeet, Zach Randolph and Darrell Arthur. I think their big man rotation is fairly set. I don't see the Grizzlies paying Davis substantial money + years, when they already have those guys on the books.

If they were interested in BBD, then yeah, a trade could make good sense there and the BYC situation balances itself out.

Darrell Arthur did jack last year -- yes, he's looked a little better in summer league, but Memphis could view his as inferior to Baby in a variety of catagories including defense, rebounding and shooting. Gasol's gonna start and play at the 5 because Thabeet is going to be lost on the floor for a couple of years.

I take the point of view that they're not likely to want to pay Warrick for a number of years, and would probably prefer to get something back for him. But they are thin at the SF position, so maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree here. Worth investigating though.

Memphis could also be a good partner in a Boozer based deal involving Miami and the Celtics -- i.e. Boozer to Miami, Baby, Scal, TA and change to Utah, and Moon, Chalmers and change to Boston. MEM's cap space could help even out salaries.

[Birdbrain]

Well yeah and of course there ' should ' never be 5 subs for 5 starters.  So a mix of starters and that bench would more than suffice.  As crazy as it sounds I think Doc pulls the 5 subs stuff just to prove some players have limitations. I would love to see a breakdown of stats with PP playing with that crew. I would guess that his efficiency would drop considerably.

[BballTim]

i just would feel comfortable with a guy behind pierce that can contribute. i tdon't think walker nor allen is that guy.

  I'd want to see better players also. But if you consider that Rasheed and Baby are better than average backups and House isn't bad, if you add one more competent player to the mix then you have a decent bench. You also have to remember that this is our bench. People compare our bench to others and say we can never win. But of you compare our starters to others as well the picture looks a little brighter.

[Cman]

having giddens, tony or bill get important minutes each night where they HAVE to have some thing offensively from them and they are required to play good defense night in and night in concerns me. tony allen has already proven that he can single handedly shoot the celtics out of a lead and out of a game. i would rather roll the dice with pruitt and sign a legit wing than sign a PG and roll the dice with those 3

  First of all, you don't have to play the entire bench at once. Secondly, if you have Sheed, Davis, Eddie and a decent pg going against mainly backups why would you be so dependent on your backup sf for offense? And Tony's no great player but his being a negative influence on the team has been wildly exaggerated.

Tony Allen is a decent player.
But (assuming BBD is resigned), backup SF is the weakest part of the bench right now, and I would like to see it strengthened.  A stronger bench will only increase the odds of success in the post season.

[nickagneta]

I think Kleiza and Warrick are off the board. They'd cost too much, in both salary and trade assets. I don't think they're attainable.

Disagree. A Warrick for Baby deal makes alot of sense for both teams and their salaries are likely to be pretty close, making the BYC situation more managable.

Why do you think Memphis be interested in Glen Davis?

They already have Marc Gasol, Hasheem Thabeet, Zach Randolph and Darrell Arthur. I think their big man rotation is fairly set. I don't see the Grizzlies paying Davis substantial money + years, when they already have those guys on the books.

If they were interested in BBD, then yeah, a trade could make good sense there and the BYC situation balances itself out.

Darrell Arthur did jack last year -- yes, he's looked a little better in summer league, but Memphis could view his as inferior to Baby in a variety of catagories including defense, rebounding and shooting. Gasol's gonna start and play at the 5 because Thabeet is going to be lost on the floor for a couple of years.

I take the point of view that they're not likely to want to pay Warrick for a number of years, and would probably prefer to get something back for him. But they are thin at the SF position, so maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree here. Worth investigating though.

Memphis could also be a good partner in a Boozer based deal involving Miami and the Celtics -- i.e. Boozer to Miami, Baby, Scal, TA and change to Utah, and Moon, Chalmers and change to Boston. MEM's cap space could help even out salaries.

Minor thing. Darrell Arthur is a much better rebounder than Big Baby. Arthur grabbed 11.3 RP48M Baby grabbed 9.3 RP48M. Arthur's and Baby offensive rebounding %'s were almost exactly the same with Arthur at 7.9% and Baby at 8.1%. Arthur though is a much better defensive rebounder getting an offensive rebounding % of 18.4 % to Baby's 12.4%.

Factor in that Baby was a two year veteran and Arthur just a rookie and that Arthur is a real 6'9" not a Big Baby 6'9", Arthur has some ups and Baby does not and that Arthur has some length and Baby does not and I think it's safe to say that he probably always will be a better rebounder

[wdleehi]

I think a lot of the guys (Unrestricted FA) that we think are to good to take the small money Celtics have to offer are going to be taking 1-2 year contracts at these low prices.  Teams that normally would have given them more money are saving their cap space for next year why avoiding taxes this year.

[ssspence]

I think Kleiza and Warrick are off the board. They'd cost too much, in both salary and trade assets. I don't think they're attainable.

Disagree. A Warrick for Baby deal makes alot of sense for both teams and their salaries are likely to be pretty close, making the BYC situation more managable.

Why do you think Memphis be interested in Glen Davis?

They already have Marc Gasol, Hasheem Thabeet, Zach Randolph and Darrell Arthur. I think their big man rotation is fairly set. I don't see the Grizzlies paying Davis substantial money + years, when they already have those guys on the books.

If they were interested in BBD, then yeah, a trade could make good sense there and the BYC situation balances itself out.

Darrell Arthur did jack last year -- yes, he's looked a little better in summer league, but Memphis could view his as inferior to Baby in a variety of catagories including defense, rebounding and shooting. Gasol's gonna start and play at the 5 because Thabeet is going to be lost on the floor for a couple of years.

I take the point of view that they're not likely to want to pay Warrick for a number of years, and would probably prefer to get something back for him. But they are thin at the SF position, so maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree here. Worth investigating though.

Memphis could also be a good partner in a Boozer based deal involving Miami and the Celtics -- i.e. Boozer to Miami, Baby, Scal, TA and change to Utah, and Moon, Chalmers and change to Boston. MEM's cap space could help even out salaries.

Minor thing. Darrell Arthur is a much better rebounder than Big Baby. Arthur grabbed 11.3 RP48M Baby grabbed 9.3 RP48M. Arthur's and Baby offensive rebounding %'s were almost exactly the same with Arthur at 7.9% and Baby at 8.1%. Arthur though is a much better defensive rebounder getting an offensive rebounding % of 18.4 % to Baby's 12.4%.

Factor in that Baby was a two year veteran and Arthur just a rookie and that Arthur is a real 6'9" not a Big Baby 6'9", Arthur has some ups and Baby does not and that Arthur has some length and Baby does not and I think it's safe to say that he probably always will be a better rebounder

i like arthur too.

ok, here's my trade on this:

BOS Trades:

Baby signed for 4.5 mil for X years
Scal (3.4, 1 year)
TA (2.5, 1 year)
Giddens (1, 1 year)
Pruitt (825k, 1 year)

BOS receives:

Blount (7.9, 1 year)
Chalmers (760K, 1 year)
Moon signed for 3 mil for X years

Utah trades:

Boozer (12.6, 1 year)

Utah receives:

Baby signed for 4.5 mil for X years
Scal (3.4, 1 year)
TA (2.5, 1 year)
Giddens (1, 1 year)

Miami trades:

Blount (7.9, 1 year)
Chalmers (760K, 1 year)
Moon signed for 3 mil for X years

Miami receives:

Boozer (12.6, 1 year)
Pruitt (825k, 1 year)

If necessary, Utah turns around and ships TA to Memphis with cash from them and Boston to pay his salary.

I'm pretty sure this works under both cap and BYC rules. I think TA is a BYC player too which complicates things slightly, but it's close.

[ssspence]

Here's an additional note on Moon from Ira Winderman, who has been covering the Heat since their inception:

"Q: Ira, if Jamario Moon decides to re-sign with the Heat, who do you think will get the majority of playing time off the bench at small forward: James Jones or Moon? I really like how well Wade and Moon complement each other, but, at the same time, Jones began to show his old form in the playoff series against Atlanta. Your thoughts? -- Daniel.

A: I'm not sure the Heat even will allow Jamario to re-sign, with commitments at small forward in place to Jones, Yakhouba Diawara and Dorell Wright, let alone Michael Beasley possibly being given the opportunity to start there. With Jones under contract for four more seasons, I'd say he remains the front-runner for any available minutes."

[Evantime34]

I'd like the Celtics to make a trade before the season but I just don't think that's realistic. Teams will end up losing even more money than they anticipated this year, especially teams that underachieve. By the trading deadline teams will be lining up to take our expiring contracts especially players that are willing to negotiate a buyout (Scal).
I bet we sign between 1 LLE player and 1 or 2 more vet min players before training camp. Then barring the unexpected resurgence of Tony Allen or the maturation of Pruitt, Walker or Giddens, we will make a move for a back up wing or point.

[ssspence]

I hear ya. I do think that accomplishes goals for all teams involved, especially if Utah chooses not to match on Millsap.

Another idea is to agree to a trade with the Heat that would reduce their financial exposure and give them some breathing room under the lux tax level where they're currently residing.

For example, trade Scal, Pruitt and TA to them for Mark "I love you Danny Ainge" Blount, giving them a 2mil break. For this they agree not to match an offer sheet of the LLE to Moon.

We then sign Baby, and add a PG with the Vet Min -- Lue, Marcus Williams, Royal Ivey -- and we're ready to rock.

[guava_wrench]

I think a lot of the guys (Unrestricted FA) that we think are to good to take the small money Celtics have to offer are going to be taking 1-2 year contracts at these low prices.  Teams that normally would have given them more money are saving their cap space for next year why avoiding taxes this year.

I agree.

These players would prefer to play this season with a contract than to sit the season out waiting for a contract that meets their standards.

Some will do what Posey did when he signed with us cheap for only one year with the hopes of driving up market value. We will have a lot of nationally televised games, including playoffs. My not try to be the next Posey or Ariza.

[SSFan V]

I think Kleiza and Warrick are off the board. They'd cost too much, in both salary and trade assets. I don't think they're attainable.

Disagree. A Warrick for Baby deal makes alot of sense for both teams and their salaries are likely to be pretty close, making the BYC situation more managable.

Why do you think Memphis be interested in Glen Davis?

They already have Marc Gasol, Hasheem Thabeet, Zach Randolph and Darrell Arthur. I think their big man rotation is fairly set. I don't see the Grizzlies paying Davis substantial money + years, when they already have those guys on the books.

If they were interested in BBD, then yeah, a trade could make good sense there and the BYC situation balances itself out.

Darrell Arthur did jack last year -- yes, he's looked a little better in summer league, but Memphis could view his as inferior to Baby in a variety of catagories including defense, rebounding and shooting. Gasol's gonna start and play at the 5 because Thabeet is going to be lost on the floor for a couple of years.

I take the point of view that they're not likely to want to pay Warrick for a number of years, and would probably prefer to get something back for him. But they are thin at the SF position, so maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree here. Worth investigating though.

Memphis could also be a good partner in a Boozer based deal involving Miami and the Celtics -- i.e. Boozer to Miami, Baby, Scal, TA and change to Utah, and Moon, Chalmers and change to Boston. MEM's cap space could help even out salaries.

Minor thing. Darrell Arthur is a much better rebounder than Big Baby. Arthur grabbed 11.3 RP48M Baby grabbed 9.3 RP48M. Arthur's and Baby offensive rebounding %'s were almost exactly the same with Arthur at 7.9% and Baby at 8.1%. Arthur though is a much better defensive rebounder getting an offensive rebounding % of 18.4 % to Baby's 12.4%.

Factor in that Baby was a two year veteran and Arthur just a rookie and that Arthur is a real 6'9" not a Big Baby 6'9", Arthur has some ups and Baby does not and that Arthur has some length and Baby does not and I think it's safe to say that he probably always will be a better rebounder

i like arthur too.

ok, here's my trade on this:

BOS Trades:

Baby signed for 4.5 mil for X years
Scal (3.4, 1 year)
TA (2.5, 1 year)
Giddens (1, 1 year)
Pruitt (825k, 1 year)

BOS receives:

Blount (7.9, 1 year)
Chalmers (760K, 1 year)
Moon signed for 3 mil for X years

Utah trades:

Boozer (12.6, 1 year)

Utah receives:

Baby signed for 4.5 mil for X years
Scal (3.4, 1 year)
TA (2.5, 1 year)
Giddens (1, 1 year)

Miami trades:

Blount (7.9, 1 year)
Chalmers (760K, 1 year)
Moon signed for 3 mil for X years

Miami receives:

Boozer (12.6, 1 year)
Pruitt (825k, 1 year)

If necessary, Utah turns around and ships TA to Memphis with cash from them and Boston to pay his salary.

I'm pretty sure this works under both cap and BYC rules. I think TA is a BYC player too which complicates things slightly, but it's close.

Are you really suggesting Blount to Boston?

wow, now that would be opening Pandora's Box on this site.   

[Rondoholic]

Break out the #30 jerseys...woohoo, Mark Blount on the way back?!?!?