Author Topic: C's interested in Diogu  (Read 12806 times)

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Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #30 on: July 15, 2009, 11:25:42 AM »

Offline winsomme

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if baby leaves...play giddens, walker and tony for both forward spots...they can handle it :-\

I don't think we can assume that Walker and JR will be totally unable to play valuable minutes. I actually think it is more reasonable to think that at least one of them will have improved to the point where they could play pretty well in short minutes.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2009, 12:03:52 PM »

Offline BballTim

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if they would have had birdman from day one and he knew his roll..he could have saved minutes for some guys...losing KG was big...but they weren't prepared from day one to get PP rest...reguardless of KG's situation... danny never replaced posey. and in the end when KG went down..PP and ray had to play a lot more minutes...if they had a wing (or someone that could actually contribute) in place from the get go PP might have been able to have more left.

as for last summer...danny put ALL of his eggs in chasing the unicorn that is corey megette..when he decided on the warriors it was late in the game and his #1 option to back up PP was gone...he tried to move to posey but went cheap on him and he walked. then what did he do? resigned tony allen in a hope he could fill that roll...disaster. so yeah..i would have taken birdman or barnes over what we had last season on the bench..

that is why danny has to bring someone in at wing..he cant use chewing gum (tony, walker and giddens) to plug holes in the bench i.e. rest for PP...heck pierce still looks tired and it is july...

  Paul still would have worn out from the Chicago series. He played big minutes for a long stretch last season but started scaling back about a month before the playoffs started.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2009, 12:05:54 PM »

Offline Chris

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I don't object to their interest in Diogu (he's a solid back-up,) but why are they targeting a PF?  Shouldn't they be working on 2G/SF and PG?

Well, it's not like they cant be interested in more than 1 player at a time.  This is the point in FA when things really slow down.  Danny has contacted the agents of everyone he is interested in, and let them know what he is willing to offer (most likely just the vet minimum in most cases).  Now it's just a waiting game to see who doesn't get the bigger offers they want, and will be willing to try their luck in Boston.

And just because they have a bigger need for a wing and PG does not mean they don't need another big man.  If Baby walks, they will have a very big hole there, and will need to add at least 1 more guy to provide depth.  Diogu would be a nice pickup.

Agreed, I of course understand that they can be interested in more than one player at a time.  I just wonder why Celtics activity has been so quiet lately and now the only thing we here about them is their pursuit of Diogu.  I haven't heard even the slightest rumor recently of them contacting any PG's or wing players, which is a little disconcerning.

As I mentioned before, I think Diogu would be an interesting and solid pick-up for the C's, but would you prefer them to sign Diogu instead of a wing player?   At the moment we could enter the season with our three big men (Garnett, Perk, Sheed) and if we didn't sign anyone else, have Scal fill in at PF.  (I read in another thread that statistics from last year imply that our most productive and efficient line-ups included Scal on the floor.)  I don't think we need to lean on him too much, and I certainly don't expect anything dominating from him, but I think he's more than sufficient.  Especially when considering that our signing of another big could potentially limit our ability to sign a wing player (or point guard.)

There is currently no viable option behind Pierce at this point.  I don't think any of the young guys should be counted on, and in my mind that takes all the precedence.   With each passing day it seems more and more likely that their plan is to indeed go with the young guys behind Pierce, which seems to me is only going to lead to more stress on Pierce to take more minutes than he should be.

That's my only beef, that's all.

I think your problem is with the reporters not asking the available wings what teams are interested in them then.  

I guarantee you Danny is working the phones hard trying to fill in all of the holes in the team.  I am willing to bet that Danny has put in calls, and probably even made offers to multiple wings.  We just haven't heard about it yet, and in many cases, we will probably never hear about it.

This is what drives me nuts about people saying "we should have offered Matt Barnes a contract last year".  We have no idea if Danny did or not.  At one point, he said that he had made offers to something like 10 different players and was waiting to see if any of the them bit.  Just because Gary Tanguay doesn't report something does not mean it's not happening (and vice versa).

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2009, 12:08:33 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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i just want some clarity of where ainge is going on all this

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2009, 12:10:34 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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if they would have had birdman from day one and he knew his roll..he could have saved minutes for some guys...losing KG was big...but they weren't prepared from day one to get PP rest...reguardless of KG's situation... danny never replaced posey. and in the end when KG went down..PP and ray had to play a lot more minutes...if they had a wing (or someone that could actually contribute) in place from the get go PP might have been able to have more left.

as for last summer...danny put ALL of his eggs in chasing the unicorn that is corey megette..when he decided on the warriors it was late in the game and his #1 option to back up PP was gone...he tried to move to posey but went cheap on him and he walked. then what did he do? resigned tony allen in a hope he could fill that roll...disaster. so yeah..i would have taken birdman or barnes over what we had last season on the bench..

that is why danny has to bring someone in at wing..he cant use chewing gum (tony, walker and giddens) to plug holes in the bench i.e. rest for PP...heck pierce still looks tired and it is july...

  Paul still would have worn out from the Chicago series. He played big minutes for a long stretch last season but started scaling back about a month before the playoffs started.

because he had no back up at the three..that is my point the bench was so bad that doc had to keep him out there with the other guys because there was no scoring...i am afraid that is we use walker/allen/giddens to spot PP it will end up being the same ole song

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2009, 12:11:39 PM »

Offline Chris

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i just want some clarity of where ainge is going on all this

We all do.  But unfortunately, if we get too much clarity, Danny loses bargaining leverage.  So we likely will not know anything for real until it actually happens.  Everything else is rumor and speculation, and means pretty much nothing.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2009, 12:16:46 PM »

Offline Aeacus

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I don't object to their interest in Diogu (he's a solid back-up,) but why are they targeting a PF?  Shouldn't they be working on 2G/SF and PG?

Well, it's not like they cant be interested in more than 1 player at a time.  This is the point in FA when things really slow down.  Danny has contacted the agents of everyone he is interested in, and let them know what he is willing to offer (most likely just the vet minimum in most cases).  Now it's just a waiting game to see who doesn't get the bigger offers they want, and will be willing to try their luck in Boston.

And just because they have a bigger need for a wing and PG does not mean they don't need another big man.  If Baby walks, they will have a very big hole there, and will need to add at least 1 more guy to provide depth.  Diogu would be a nice pickup.

Agreed, I of course understand that they can be interested in more than one player at a time.  I just wonder why Celtics activity has been so quiet lately and now the only thing we here about them is their pursuit of Diogu.  I haven't heard even the slightest rumor recently of them contacting any PG's or wing players, which is a little disconcerning.

As I mentioned before, I think Diogu would be an interesting and solid pick-up for the C's, but would you prefer them to sign Diogu instead of a wing player?   At the moment we could enter the season with our three big men (Garnett, Perk, Sheed) and if we didn't sign anyone else, have Scal fill in at PF.  (I read in another thread that statistics from last year imply that our most productive and efficient line-ups included Scal on the floor.)  I don't think we need to lean on him too much, and I certainly don't expect anything dominating from him, but I think he's more than sufficient.  Especially when considering that our signing of another big could potentially limit our ability to sign a wing player (or point guard.)

There is currently no viable option behind Pierce at this point.  I don't think any of the young guys should be counted on, and in my mind that takes all the precedence.   With each passing day it seems more and more likely that their plan is to indeed go with the young guys behind Pierce, which seems to me is only going to lead to more stress on Pierce to take more minutes than he should be.

That's my only beef, that's all.

I think your problem is with the reporters not asking the available wings what teams are interested in them then.  

I guarantee you Danny is working the phones hard trying to fill in all of the holes in the team.  I am willing to bet that Danny has put in calls, and probably even made offers to multiple wings.  We just haven't heard about it yet, and in many cases, we will probably never hear about it.

This is what drives me nuts about people saying "we should have offered Matt Barnes a contract last year".  We have no idea if Danny did or not.  At one point, he said that he had made offers to something like 10 different players and was waiting to see if any of the them bit.  Just because Gary Tanguay doesn't report something does not mean it's not happening (and vice versa).

Totally agree with this.  Nothing to report when a GM calls an agent and is told "not interested".  

I'm sure Danny's throwing out some trade ideas and has made some offers to players but since we only have the LLE and the minimum to offer, none of that is going to make news.  Agents spread rummors of offers that increase the players worth, not minimize it.  Most of the trade talk that gets reported is where there is a major player involved or where the two teams are actively working a trade and think it might happen.  Any discussions Danny has been having probably fails to meet either criteria.  I don't think the rest of the league is dying to trade for Scal and TA's expiring deals at this point.  

It will be a slow July I'm afraid, I'm hoping that things will pick up a little in August. The big names have to be signed/traded before the little fish know how much money is left for them. And we can only afford little fish at the moment.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2009, 12:22:17 PM »

Offline amenhotep04

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if they would have had birdman from day one and he knew his roll..he could have saved minutes for some guys...losing KG was big...but they weren't prepared from day one to get PP rest...reguardless of KG's situation... danny never replaced posey. and in the end when KG went down..PP and ray had to play a lot more minutes...if they had a wing (or someone that could actually contribute) in place from the get go PP might have been able to have more left.

as for last summer...danny put ALL of his eggs in chasing the unicorn that is corey megette..when he decided on the warriors it was late in the game and his #1 option to back up PP was gone...he tried to move to posey but went cheap on him and he walked. then what did he do? resigned tony allen in a hope he could fill that roll...disaster. so yeah..i would have taken birdman or barnes over what we had last season on the bench..

that is why danny has to bring someone in at wing..he cant use chewing gum (tony, walker and giddens) to plug holes in the bench i.e. rest for PP...heck pierce still looks tired and it is july...

  Paul still would have worn out from the Chicago series. He played big minutes for a long stretch last season but started scaling back about a month before the playoffs started.

because he had no back up at the three..that is my point the bench was so bad that doc had to keep him out there with the other guys because there was no scoring...i am afraid that is we use walker/allen/giddens to spot PP it will end up being the same ole song

This is where I disagree.  You may be correct regarding Doc, but from my standpoint, and this has been a criticism of Doc his entire coaching career, is that he doesn't manage the bench and the rotation well.  He's had his moments, but overall my criticism of him is that he doesn't give or in this case hasn't given the younger guys the opportunity to fail.  By playing Paul so many minutes, as well as Ray, he then cancels practice or minimizes practice.  So the younger guys, if not playing regularly, have little opportunity to improve.  So, with the exception of TA, I would really like to see Gabe and one of Giddens and Walker to get the chance to play regular minutes through January. By regular, I'm talking about 16 minutes.  If at that point they appear hopeless, then make some kind of trade before the deadline.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2009, 12:27:46 PM »

Offline OCsWestCeltic

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I like our interest in Ike Diogu.  Should we not retain BBD for whatever reason - Ike would be a great compliment to fill the same 4 position.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2009, 12:29:30 PM »

Offline Drucci

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I've never seen Diogu play but from what I hear about him he is an underrated player, who can contribute a lot to his team so if that's true I would be glad if he signed with us for the LLE. Still, the priority is to resign Big Baby in my opinion.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #40 on: July 15, 2009, 12:30:18 PM »

Offline amenhotep04

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I don't object to their interest in Diogu (he's a solid back-up,) but why are they targeting a PF?  Shouldn't they be working on 2G/SF and PG?

I disagree.  With only three bigs (Perk, KG, and Sheed), plus Scal (health concerns with concussions) on the roster; and BBD a question mark. God knows what Mikki's situation is. The Cs still need more depth at the 4-5.

And while I agree with everyone that the Cs can look at several players at once, given that currently we have Gabe, TA, JR, Walker, Eddie, and possibly Lester on the roster as possible back-ups around the arc, I think we need to be careful not to have a team full of undersized players.

On a different note, and forgive me if this has been covered, but why the name, 'Prof. Clutch'? Why the association with a Hall of Fame logo of the Lakers, Mr. Clutch on a Celtics Blog?

Why Amenhotep,
do I sense a hint of accusation in the tone of your question?

Okay, you got me.  I'm a rogue spy from the Lakers blog.  I've just been reading this blog for five years, a member for 2 1/2 years, and spent one year of my life working unpaid on an independent celtics documentary for no other reason than my love of the celtics, ALL as a ploy to get everyone here to trust me.  I thought I had gotten away with it, but alas you were too smart and figured me out.  You my friend...YOU!

Seriously though, if you really want to know the history of my name just send me a PM and I'd be happy to recount the story, although its not incredibly interesting.  I've never been asked before so it hasn't been "covered"  yet.  Suffice it to say, It has nothing to do with Jerry West.

As to your reply of my post, I tried to legitimize my concerns in my response to Chris.  But if your fear of Scal maybe getting injured, and the subsequent young guys who we could turn to for back-up at the wings, well...I just don't think any of that has any base.  Scal recovered, he played the entire end of the season, and he played well.  If you are going to base our moves on the possibility of our fourth option big man maybe getting injured, than how about the chance that our starting SF and most important player on our team maybe getting injured due to having no sufficient back-up.  It seems a more likely scenario that Pierce will get hurt trying to cover for the minutes that are lacking coverage due to no sufficient back up on the team.  Gabe, TA, JR, Walker, and Lester are not gonna cut it, and Doc has shown a career long unwillingness to play young guys when he has veterans.  

The way I look at it, you have two guys who can play either the PF or Center and Perk who only plays C.  There are 96 available minutes total at the big man positions.  Remember that KG is used to playing near 35 mpg, Perk is 24 yrs old and used to playing 30, and Sheed is used to playing 33 mpg.  We want these guys on the court to increase our effectiveness and can lean on all three during stretches.  Add those minutes that their normal career numbers show they are used to up and you get about 98 minutes.  Obviously we can reduce the stress on them by adding another big, but how thin are we there really?  Rather than trying to solidify a big that might need to contribute 10 minutes per game, how about focusing on a competent back-up for Pierce who will need to play about 15 or more minutes per game.

Its as simple as this, if one of our big men goes down this season, just like on any team, we would have to find a way to adapt.  But we are FAR better suited to deal with that than the majority of teams out there with the talent we have at the front court.  If Garnett or Perk goes down, we have Sheed to take his place.  If Sheed goes down we can turn to Scal and so on.

If Pierce goes down, what do the C's do?  Walker or TA as your starting wing?  Yikes!  It's as simple as that.  The most pressing need is a back up wing to relieve Pierce and a 34 year old Ray Allen of the stress of playing so many minutes.  Yeah, Scal had injuries last year, but so did both Pierce and Allen who sustained injuries in the playoffs (Pierce bone spurs in his ankle, Allen hamstring issues.)  That's all I'm saying.

Fair enough.  I am surprised that no one called you on the name, but then again probably most of these guys didn't know that Jerry West's nickname was Mr. Clutch.

I hear you on the reasoning for help behind Paul.  It does make sense, though I'm unsure we can get a decent back-up for him noticeably better than what we have.  That does not mean TA. I do believe that Giddens or Walker, if given the chance, could do well enough.  Pipe dream? Maybe.  

Anyway, regarding the 4-5 spot. I am counting on Perk missing games due to the shoulder.  KG hasn't played a full season his two seasons with the Cs, so I expect him to to miss a few games as well.  I don't have the faith in Scal's head as you do.  But let's say he's okay, then I'm alright with the Cs doing nothing, or having a sign and trade of BBD, adding in TA and either Giddens or Walker for a back-up for Paul.  I could see signing on the cheap someone like Fazekas to be a fifth big just in case all hell breaks loose, or maybe even include Mikki.  At that point I probably wouldn't care.  One thing I'm almost certain of, is that we have to thin the 6'6" and under crowd.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #41 on: July 15, 2009, 12:36:42 PM »

Offline Prof. Clutch

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Fair enough.  I am surprised that no one called you on the name, but then again probably most of these guys didn't know that Jerry West's nickname was Mr. Clutch.

I hear you on the reasoning for help behind Paul.  It does make sense, though I'm unsure we can get a decent back-up for him noticeably better than what we have.  That does not mean TA. I do believe that Giddens or Walker, if given the chance, could do well enough.  Pipe dream? Maybe.  

Anyway, regarding the 4-5 spot. I am counting on Perk missing games due to the shoulder.  KG hasn't played a full season his two seasons with the Cs, so I expect him to to miss a few games as well.  I don't have the faith in Scal's head as you do.  But let's say he's okay, then I'm alright with the Cs doing nothing, or having a sign and trade of BBD, adding in TA and either Giddens or Walker for a back-up for Paul.  I could see signing on the cheap someone like Fazekas to be a fifth big just in case all hell breaks loose, or maybe even include Mikki.  At that point I probably wouldn't care.  One thing I'm almost certain of, is that we have to thin the 6'6" and under crowd.

Good post, fun to talk about it with you.  TP...

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #42 on: July 15, 2009, 12:53:06 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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i would prefer to have 5 bigs come playoffs...3 wings 2 point guards....3 SGs

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #43 on: July 15, 2009, 01:49:36 PM »

Offline footey

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I'd rather keep BBD and sign Joey Graham, who can back up Paul.

Re: C's interested in Diogu
« Reply #44 on: July 15, 2009, 01:51:12 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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I'd rather keep BBD and sign Joey Graham, who can back up Paul.

no problem with that either..i think carney, udoka, bogans, graham all would be cheap yet decent wings off the bench