Clarifying what "our garbage" really is

[BudweiserCeltic]

Giddens and Walker - Team Options say they are.

Yes, but in 2010-2011, not this year. Pruitt has a TO this year.

Giddens and Walker are as much expiring as Tony and Scal.

The difference with Pruitt is that he has a non-guaranteed contract (I'm not sure if it becomes guaranteed upon being traded). But for purposes of what is considered expiring or not, Giddens, Walker, Tony, and Scal are expiring.

[kozlodoev]

Giddens and Walker - Team Options say they are.

Yes, but in 2010-2011, not this year. Pruitt has a TO this year.

Giddens and Walker are as much expiring as Tony and Scal.

The difference with Pruitt is that he has a non-guaranteed contract (I'm not sure if it becomes guaranteed upon being traded). But for purposes of what is considered expiring or not, Giddens, Walker, Tony, and Scal are expiring.

Eh, right, my bad.

[gustusias]

Our garbage is really garbage basketballwise. We got two bench players so far in my eyes. Wallace and House.  

[celticinorlando]

garbage is pruitt, giddens and walker...basically the last 2 out of three drafts for boston

[xmuscularghandix]

just becuase someone hasn't played yet doesn't mean they're garbage. two of them were just picked last year, one was a first rounder who would've been higher in this year's draft.

[Fafnir]

garbage is pruitt, giddens and walker...basically the last 2 out of three drafts for boston

Huh? Our last three drafts were: BBD, Pruit, Giddens, Walker, Hudson.

But we also used two first round picks in trades for Ray/KG. With how low those five picks were I'm happy with one hit for a bench player in BBD.

[xmuscularghandix]

garbage is pruitt, giddens and walker...basically the last 2 out of three drafts for boston

How can you know about players that haven't played meaningful minutes yet?

If these players were playing 25-30 minutes for some crappy team everybody'd be suggesting we trade our expiring for THEM.

[Fafnir]

garbage is pruitt, giddens and walker...basically the last 2 out of three drafts for boston

How can you know about players that haven't played meaningful minutes yet?

If these players were playing 25-30 minutes for some crappy team everybody'd be suggesting we trade our expiring for THEM.

I'm not so sure about that, but I do agree that they could still end up being quality NBA players. But Pruitt has had his chances and has failed to capitalize on them. Walker and Giddens have a better chance of making that leap in my opinion.

[LarBrd33]

Koz,

By no means am I trying to speak for GKC, but I think the point he's trying to make is that expiring contracts are worth more than the talent of the player, and as such they can get you better talent in return. Expiring contracts have more value than ever in this economic climate where over half the teams lost money last year and the future looks even bleaker (just when everyone is trying to get cap room for 2010). Thus, it is not unreasonable to think that expirings could get back better talent from another team. In fact, when looking back at the history of trades in the NBA, there seems to more lop-sided deals driven by finances than deals that make sense for both sides. I'd also add that depending on what your definition of "trash" is, the C's have much more than 5.5 mil in expiring or team-option contracts.

Brian Scalabrine    $3,413,793
Eddie House       $2,862,000
Tony Allen       $2,500,000
J.R. Giddens       $1,028,880   
Gabe Pruitt       $825,497   
Bill Walker       $736,420               

Total          $9,116,590

I agree with you that the C's will not likely get a young stud for expiring contracts, especially if they are on a reasonable contract or rooky contract, but I definitely believe the C's can upgrade the talent on the bench significantly using expiring contracts.

I'll also give you a TP because I'm just that kind of guy.

$9,116,590?

Can't we take back up to 15% more?

so we can take back a player (or players) adding up to $10,484,078 if we trade that collection of expiring contracts, right?  Did I do my math wrong?

So what are the teams that could theoretically look to dump salary and what players would they theoretically look to dump?

Kings:

Andres Nocioni  $7,500,000 (4 years left)
Beno Udrih  $6,077,500 (4 years left)
Francisco Garcia  $5,800,000 (4 years left)

... those contracts are pretty crappy if you ask me.  None of those 3 guys are worth tying up cap space with.  I'm sure all could be had (I believe we could have traded for Nocioni last year, but we decided against it)... maybe two of them could be had if you also signed-and-traded Glen Davis?

Bobcats:

Gerald Wallace $9,075,000 (4 years left)
DeSagana Diop $6,031,800 (4 years left)
Emeka Okafor $10,538,937 (5 years left)
Boris Diaw $9,000,000 (3 years left)

... They also have Vlad and Nazr Mohammid signed for 2 years making around 6.5 mil each.  That's a lot of money dedicated to a crappy team.  A couple of those guys are maybe untouchable... maybe.  But Gerald Wallace for *crap* is exactly the kind of trade that we've seen in the past (Pau Gasol, Richard Jefferson, Shaq, etc)

Detroit:

Rip Hamilton: $11,625,000 (4 years)
A bit out of our price range unless we're doing something with Glen Davis?  Are they ready to dump Rip now that they have Ben Gordon?  Not likely... Not impossible, though...

Golden State:

Monta Ellis: $11,000,000 (5 years)
Andris Biedrins: $9,000,000 (5 years)
Correy Maggette: $8,937,931 (4 years)
Stephen Jackson: $7,650,000 (4 years)

Honestly don't know if they are a team looking to cut payroll.  Maggette might be the only option that makes a little sense. 

Houston:

Shane Battier: $6,864,200 (2 years)

Why dump Shane?  Who knows what the heck the Rockets are doing at this point.  Yao is possibly done for the season.  They could possibly just let McGrady expire... They lost Artest.  This season seems pretty doomed if you ask me.  They might be best just heading into next season with boatloads of cap space to make a run at the "class of 2010".  Clearing an extra 7 mil from their payroll (Shane) might be beneficial?

Clippers:

Chris Kaman: $10,400,000 (3 years)

I thought maybe he'd be an option, but trading away Zach Randolph makes it interesting.  I still think that if the Clippers were smart they would be trying to dump Baron Davis (12 mil, 4 years) for an expiring contract.  Then maybe trade Chris Kaman for our package of expiring contracts.  Why?... because they would be smart to build around Thorton, Griffin and Eric Gordon, tank the season for another top pick... and head into the 2010 offseason with craploads of caproom and the ultimate draw of being in Los Angeles.  Sure, they aren't the Lakers, but can you completely 100% rule out the possibility that Chris Bosh and LeBron decide to one-up Kobe in his own city by joining forces with Blake Griffin?  I can't...   

Chicago:

Kirk Hinrich: $9,500,000 (3 years)

I can't see why they would continue to pay him... they apparently have wanted to trade him for the last year, right? 

Hornets:

James Posey $6,031,800 (3 years)

I'm pretty positive we could have him for some expirings.  I'm pretty positive I still don't think he's worth the 3 years.  They want to trade him for a reason.  Danny made the right decision. 


New York:

Eddie Curry - $10,500,423 (2 years)
Jared Jeffries - $6,466,600 (2 years)

We don't want either of these losers.  New York clearly would love to dump either of these guys for expiring contracts, though.  They are the last pieces to the "summer of LeBron" puzzle.  They already have enough cap space to sign a superstar next offseason... but moving those guys would certainly help their chances of signing TWO...     How badly do they want to dump those guys?... enough to also give up one of their young prospects like Danilo Gallinari?   Beats me...


That's all I can think of at the moment.   There might be other options (multiple players from some team?)


Anything is possible, though.

   

[Edgar]

More and more on the trade forums, people's trade ideas are being responded with "nobody wants our trash" and then therefore "stop making trade ideas". I would quote but I'm sure people know what I am talking about. I would prefer more rationale answers such as "Shane Battier is too much of a cog on the team" or "player X's contract has too much value" instead of simply "noone wants out trash".

Why?

Because our trash is not trash.

The reason why more trade's are coming up this summer than the last, is because unlike last year, Tony Allen, Pruitt, Giddens, Walker and Scal are no longer garbage.

They are EXPIRING CONTRACTS

With a big free agency coming up, and with teams hemorrhaging money right now, LOTS of teams are trying get expiring contracts.

Looking at the 08-09 Season
The Cleveland Cavaliers got Mo Williams by trading away Damon Jones and Joe Smith (who was not in the main rotation of the Thunder)

The Houston Rockets got Ron Artest for Bobby Jackson and a draft pick

The LA Clippers got Zach Randolph for Tim Thomas and Cuttino Mobley. The former was traded and the other had an insurance exception due to a heart condition

The LA Lakers got rid of Vladmir Rodmonovic for Shannon Brown and Adam Morrison, an obvious salary dump (even though Shannon Brown eventually became good).

Even this year the Nets and the Bucks have given away Jefferson and Carter for pennies on the dollar.

With the expiring's of our garbage, a team can clear salary cap space in the amount of;
Brian Scalabrine: $3.4 million
Tony Allen: $2.5 million
JR Giddens: $1 million
Gabe Pruitt: $.9 million
Bill Walker: $.7 million

The teams can save even more if we take on more salary (up to 15% per league rules).

Are we looking for the next Jefferson or Carter or Shaq trade? No. But there is a player within the package of our garbage to get someone. And especially with this year having more non-contenders than ever, teams looking at a shrinking salary cap and the economy taking it's toll on the NBA next season, this is the perfect year to use our expiring contracts to net us a player that solidifies our bench.

Andre Miller 

[CoachBo]

garbage is pruitt, giddens and walker...basically the last 2 out of three drafts for boston

How can you know about players that haven't played meaningful minutes yet?

If these players were playing 25-30 minutes for some crappy team everybody'd be suggesting we trade our expiring for THEM.

This idea always vexes me.

The notion that Doc and the staff don't know whether our kids can play because WE haven't seen them play is seriously flawed, but it's an idea that keeps popping up on Celtics sites. It shouldn't, because it's nonsense.

Rivers and the staff see them every day in practice. These guys aren't getting minutes.

There's a cause and effect relationship.

It's very "high school parentish" in nature. I hear that a lot, "You don't know if my kid can play because he never gets any varsity time."

Actually, what I know from practice is that your kid doesn't deserve varsity time. He can't shoot, can't defend, is lazy or whatever. It's just embarrassingly illogical to try to construct an argument that a coach doesn't play his best players. I've never met a coach, from high school peers to Popovich, who does that.

The "meaningful minutes" argument is a serious red herring, because the truly meaningful minutes for a young player are in camp and practice. If they're not playing, they're not impressing. It's that simple.

[JBcat]

Just a quick note I think we still have a total of about 1.6 Mil in trade exceptions as a result of the Cassell and O'Bryant trades last season.  I believe we have up until a year from those trades to use those exceptions.  So that in itself acts as an expiring contract therefore I believe we have 10.7 mil not 9.1 mil that we can use as "expiring contracts" not including Ray of course.  It also leaves out if we sign any other free agents to a 1 year deal. 

[JBcat]

Just a quick note I think we still have a total of about 1.6 Mil in trade exceptions as a result of the Cassell and O'Bryant trades last season.  I believe we have up until a year from those trades to use those exceptions.  So that in itself acts as an expiring contract therefore I believe we have 10.7 mil not 9.1 mil that we can use as "expiring contracts" not including Ray of course.  It also leaves out if we sign any other free agents to a 1 year deal. 

One other thing say if we sign BBD to a reasonable deal say 3 years 3 mil a year even though not technically an expiring contract later this season it would be a very attractive contract for a team to take on as part of a bigger deal bringing someone back. 

[CoachBo]

Three million is a reasonable price for Davis' skillset. If we could get him at that number, I'd be interested in keeping him.

I hope you're right about the trade exceptions. That adds a little weight to the bag of expirings we have to offer someone this summer up to the deadline next year.

[BballTim]

garbage is pruitt, giddens and walker...basically the last 2 out of three drafts for boston

How can you know about players that haven't played meaningful minutes yet?

If these players were playing 25-30 minutes for some crappy team everybody'd be suggesting we trade our expiring for THEM.

This idea always vexes me.

The notion that Doc and the staff don't know whether our kids can play because WE haven't seen them play is seriously flawed, but it's an idea that keeps popping up on Celtics sites. It shouldn't, because it's nonsense.

Rivers and the staff see them every day in practice. These guys aren't getting minutes.

There's a cause and effect relationship.

It's very "high school parentish" in nature. I hear that a lot, "You don't know if my kid can play because he never gets any varsity time."

  That's not exactly what he's saying, though. Stick Walker on a crappy team, where they can be more interested in developing young players than winning games and he might get decent minutes. Doesn't mean that he should get them here. Give him a steady 10-15 minutes a game somewhere far from Boston and there would be plenty of people here clamoring for Danny to trade for him.