Author Topic: I love Tony Allen  (Read 30756 times)

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Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #120 on: July 13, 2009, 02:13:16 AM »

Offline Atzar

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You guys are sick. I wouldn't go as far as saying "I hate the guy" geez thats a harsh statement. TA's problem is a direct reflection of how Doc plays him. Doc is a decent coach, will be a great coach if he utilized his bench better.

starting 5 of Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett & Perkins = Whom strive off defense and Rondos Ability to push the ball quickly and make plays.

Bench of, House, TA, Scalabrine, Powe & Davis = House is a shooter, not a play maker, TA is a slasher/defender of the passing lanes, not a ball handler/shooter nor play maker, Scal is another shooter, Powe is a post player/defender/rebounder, and Glen Davis now has evolved into being a Shooter/Scorer/defender. Is something missing???? of course!!! There is no play maker coming off the bench. These guys are all stand still players @ best. They thrive off the attention of the other greats when in game.

Doc needs to mesh the bench with the starters. If Rondos in the game put in Eddie, TA or Walker and rest Ray and Pierce. etc... He benches these guys all game and then expects them to be "ready". Uh Huh ???

Can anybody else see the problem here?  Blaming this on Doc is ridiculous.  How do you use a player who sucks at what he's good at?  Last time I checked, handles were pretty important - perhaps even essential - to slashing to the hoop.  Name me one player in the league who is considered a good slasher but can't dribble.  His defense is a similar case.  He can use his athleticism to be a heck of a defender.  But as soon as he's matched against somebody who can think the game, he looks like a donkey. 

Players can have flaws and still be effective players.  Eddie can't dribble.  Rondo can't shoot.  Still, both can have a positive impact on the game by playing to their strengths as much as possible.  With Tony Allen, it's not that simple because his weaknesses directly impede his strengths.  On offense, he is most effective when he slashes to the basket, but that is offset by his inability to take care of the ball.  He has the ability to be a great defender, but he's just as likely to make a boneheaded play as he is a spectacular one. 

With lots of playing time on a bad team where he's allowed to be inconsistent, I think he can and probably would have games where he looks like an All-Star.  However, his inability to get out of his own way will always keep him from being anything more than a roll of the dice when he steps on the court, and championship-level teams can't settle for that kind of unreliability. 




Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #121 on: July 13, 2009, 05:43:17 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Here's the problem with Tony Allen in a nutshell and it has nothing to do with how Doc uses him. Tony Allen, for all intents and purposes, is the exact same player he was when he was drafted. He isn't even one bit better. His game hasn't grown one iota and when you spend a 1st round pick on a player you expect that player to grow into something.

But he never did. Why? Because his entire game is based on athleticism and as soon as his knee injuries started piling up his athleticism became average and he suddenly had to do what aging fireballers in baseball had to do. He had to transform his game into that of a pitcher and not a thrower. He had to transform his game into that of a player and not an athlete.

And he can't because he doesn't have enough upstairs to do it. He is the epitome of stupid. What's that saying. Stupid is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result. That's Tony. He just keeps doing the same stuff that hasn't worked for him and expects to shine like he did for 10 games in January of 2007 doing them.

He continues to go for head fakes, continues to drive to the basket with his head down, continues to only go to his right, continues to space the floor poorly on fast breaks, continues to shoot poorly from outside 12 feet, continues to constantly dribble the ball off his foot, continues to attempt to go 1 on 3, and so on.

As I said last year when he was signed, that was the worse contract Danny Ainge ever gave out. He should never have been re-signed.

As for the way he is used. The claims that he needs long minutes and to play with starters to be effective. That's crap. My guess is 95% of the good bench players in the league would produce good numbers if they were playing with starters and playing longer minutes. He's a bench player!!!!!! Bench players are paid MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to come off the bench cold and produce. It's what they do for a living. And Tony isn't good at it. That should tell you something about Tony's game.

Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #122 on: July 13, 2009, 07:06:50 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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You guys are sick. I wouldn't go as far as saying "I hate the guy" geez thats a harsh statement. TA's problem is a direct reflection of how Doc plays him. Doc is a decent coach, will be a great coach if he utilized his bench better.

starting 5 of Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett & Perkins = Whom strive off defense and Rondos Ability to push the ball quickly and make plays.

Bench of, House, TA, Scalabrine, Powe & Davis = House is a shooter, not a play maker, TA is a slasher/defender of the passing lanes, not a ball handler/shooter nor play maker, Scal is another shooter, Powe is a post player/defender/rebounder, and Glen Davis now has evolved into being a Shooter/Scorer/defender. Is something missing???? of course!!! There is no play maker coming off the bench. These guys are all stand still players @ best. They thrive off the attention of the other greats when in game.

Doc needs to mesh the bench with the starters. If Rondos in the game put in Eddie, TA or Walker and rest Ray and Pierce. etc... He benches these guys all game and then expects them to be "ready". Uh Huh ???

Can anybody else see the problem here?  Blaming this on Doc is ridiculous.  How do you use a player who sucks at what he's good at?  Last time I checked, handles were pretty important - perhaps even essential - to slashing to the hoop.  Name me one player in the league who is considered a good slasher but can't dribble.  His defense is a similar case.  He can use his athleticism to be a heck of a defender.  But as soon as he's matched against somebody who can think the game, he looks like a donkey. 

Players can have flaws and still be effective players.  Eddie can't dribble.  Rondo can't shoot.  Still, both can have a positive impact on the game by playing to their strengths as much as possible.  With Tony Allen, it's not that simple because his weaknesses directly impede his strengths.  On offense, he is most effective when he slashes to the basket, but that is offset by his inability to take care of the ball.  He has the ability to be a great defender, but he's just as likely to make a boneheaded play as he is a spectacular one. 

With lots of playing time on a bad team where he's allowed to be inconsistent, I think he can and probably would have games where he looks like an All-Star.  However, his inability to get out of his own way will always keep him from being anything more than a roll of the dice when he steps on the court, and championship-level teams can't settle for that kind of unreliability. 





Great post.  Additionally, I would add that Tony's lack of gray matter impedes his ability to slash to the basket, as he's much too willing to attack the hoop when their are four defenders between him and the basket.

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Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #123 on: July 13, 2009, 09:38:25 AM »

Offline waltzero

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He really had a break through stretch before that ill fated post-whistle dunk.

I really think it's all about his permanently messed up relationship with Doc now. It's not really about how they do their jobs, it's a person to person thing, that the relationship is just unsalvageable now.

Have you ever had a coach who maybe tried to be nice or maybe didn't, but you could tell he hated you for being such a ? Or seen what happens to a player then up close? It can happen in other areas of life, like a teacher and student that just don't mix.

Suddenly a guy who really should be able to play smarter is all over the place. As long as he's under the scrutiny of that coach he'll never get his game back. His only chance is a new beginning somewhere.

Usually comes with bonus 'plays awesome against his old coach, because of a little extra  he can put into ever play.'

edit- no offensive language - wdleehi
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 11:14:34 AM by wdleehi »

Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #124 on: July 13, 2009, 09:42:10 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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He really had a break through stretch before that ill fated post-whistle dunk.

I really think it's all about his permanently messed up relationship with Doc now. It's not really about how they do their jobs, it's a person to person thing, that the relationship is just unsalvageable now.

Have you ever had a coach who maybe tried to be nice or maybe didn't, but you could tell he hated you for being such a f**k up? Or seen what happens to a player then up close? It can happen in other areas of life, like a teacher and student that just don't mix.

Suddenly a guy who really should be able to play smarter is f**king up all over the place. As long as he's under the scrutiny of that coach he'll never get his game back. His only chance is a new beginning somewhere.

Usually comes with bonus 'plays awesome against his old coach, because of a little extra F-U-Buddy he can put into ever play.'
1. I don't think all the masked profanity is necessary

2. I think you are way off base because Tony's relationship with Doc is not the problem it's Tony game that is.

Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #125 on: July 13, 2009, 09:46:32 AM »

Offline GKC

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He really had a break through stretch before that ill fated post-whistle dunk.

I really think it's all about his permanently messed up relationship with Doc now. It's not really about how they do their jobs, it's a person to person thing, that the relationship is just unsalvageable now.

Have you ever had a coach who maybe tried to be nice or maybe didn't, but you could tell he hated you for being such a f**k up? Or seen what happens to a player then up close? It can happen in other areas of life, like a teacher and student that just don't mix.

Suddenly a guy who really should be able to play smarter is f**king up all over the place. As long as he's under the scrutiny of that coach he'll never get his game back. His only chance is a new beginning somewhere.

Usually comes with bonus 'plays awesome against his old coach, because of a little extra F-U-Buddy he can put into ever play.'
1. I don't think all the masked profanity is necessary

2. I think you are way off base because Tony's relationship with Doc is not the problem it's Tony game that is.

It's not Tony's realtionships fault. In fact, we all thought Tony would work out decently, and gave him a chance to see injury free if he could work things out. I don't think anyone thought Tony would be a disaster last year (even if we thoguht he wouldn't be as good as Posey).

In fact, we actually tried to trade him until the Nocioni trade did not work. Now we have more time to fix that position.
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Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #126 on: July 13, 2009, 11:12:12 AM »

Offline paintitgreen

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While I don't think Doc has always been the best with young talent and often took too long to play them, he has given Tony Allen absolutely every opportunity to play in Boston. I recall him getting more run as a rookie than his classmates Big Al and Delonte, both of whom are far superior. When he came back from his first injury, Doc let him be the guy when Pierce was hurt. He has always looked to Tony as his starter when Ray has to miss games (similar to how even when Scal was behind Powe and Davis on the depth chart, Scal was originally the guy Doc looked to whenever KG had to miss a game).

Tony has just repeatedly blown his chances. Yes, injuries are a factor, but the guy's dumb as a rock regardless of who's coaching him. He's been asked repeatedly to focus on the defensive end and instead he tries to make offensive plays but ends up dribbling the ball off his foot. He's just not a good basketball player. That's not Doc's fault, that's not Danny's fault, that's not anybody's fault but Tony Allen. His inabilities were apparent last year - Danny's error was in giving him this current contract and expecting him to replace James Posey.
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Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #127 on: July 13, 2009, 11:21:44 AM »

Offline GKC

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While I don't think Doc has always been the best with young talent and often took too long to play them, he has given Tony Allen absolutely every opportunity to play in Boston. I recall him getting more run as a rookie than his classmates Big Al and Delonte, both of whom are far superior. When he came back from his first injury, Doc let him be the guy when Pierce was hurt. He has always looked to Tony as his starter when Ray has to miss games (similar to how even when Scal was behind Powe and Davis on the depth chart, Scal was originally the guy Doc looked to whenever KG had to miss a game).

Tony has just repeatedly blown his chances. Yes, injuries are a factor, but the guy's dumb as a rock regardless of who's coaching him. He's been asked repeatedly to focus on the defensive end and instead he tries to make offensive plays but ends up dribbling the ball off his foot. He's just not a good basketball player. That's not Doc's fault, that's not Danny's fault, that's not anybody's fault but Tony Allen. His inabilities were apparent last year - Danny's error was in giving him this current contract and expecting him to replace James Posey.

I agree. Except on Doc's part, he started Scal because he liked when Big Baby and Powe played together, and also because Rondo expressed his desire to play with Scal since Scal helps him space the floor more.

Tony Allen's contracts not to bad though. Seriously if we don't get anything done before camp, I have no doubt Tony's contract will look more tempting to the non-contenders come February
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Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #128 on: July 13, 2009, 01:37:51 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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He really had a break through stretch before that ill fated post-whistle dunk.

I really think it's all about his permanently messed up relationship with Doc now. It's not really about how they do their jobs, it's a person to person thing, that the relationship is just unsalvageable now.

Have you ever had a coach who maybe tried to be nice or maybe didn't, but you could tell he hated you for being such a f**k up? Or seen what happens to a player then up close? It can happen in other areas of life, like a teacher and student that just don't mix.

Suddenly a guy who really should be able to play smarter is f**king up all over the place. As long as he's under the scrutiny of that coach he'll never get his game back. His only chance is a new beginning somewhere.

Usually comes with bonus 'plays awesome against his old coach, because of a little extra F-U-Buddy he can put into ever play.'
1. I don't think all the masked profanity is necessary

2. I think you are way off base because Tony's relationship with Doc is not the problem it's Tony game that is.

It's not Tony's realtionships fault. In fact, we all thought Tony would work out decently, and gave him a chance to see injury free if he could work things out. I don't think anyone thought Tony would be a disaster last year (even if we thoguht he wouldn't be as good as Posey).

In fact, we actually tried to trade him until the Nocioni trade did not work. Now we have more time to fix that position.
Actually go back and check some old threads. I, Roy and more than a couple others all expected exactly what we got out of Tony last year. We said it time and again last season.

Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #129 on: July 13, 2009, 01:43:18 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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tony allen isn't worth a new box of balls..

Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #130 on: July 13, 2009, 01:46:41 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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tony allen isn't worth a new box of balls..

are we talking Callaway Tour IX 1st Quality balls or used top flight driving range balls? I need to know.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #131 on: July 13, 2009, 01:47:18 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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tony allen isn't worth a new box of balls..

are we talking Callaway Tour IX 1st Quality balls or used top flight driving range balls? I need to know.

driving range at this point ;D

Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #132 on: July 13, 2009, 01:47:52 PM »

Offline GKC

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tony allen isn't worth a new box of balls..

are we talking Callaway Tour IX 1st Quality balls or used top flight driving range balls? I need to know.

Come Feb some non-contender's gonna have an itchy trigger finger. I'm not too worried.
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Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #133 on: July 13, 2009, 01:49:12 PM »

Offline celticinorlando

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tony allen isn't worth a new box of balls..

are we talking Callaway Tour IX 1st Quality balls or used top flight driving range balls? I need to know.

Come Feb some non-contender's gonna have an itchy trigger finger. I'm not too worried.

problem is until then we have to deal with him either taking up a roster spot...getting hurt once again or actually getting on the court where he will be a rally killer by being tony..i would rather dump him now

Re: I love Tony Allen
« Reply #134 on: July 13, 2009, 09:36:31 PM »

Offline mgent

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You guys are sick. I wouldn't go as far as saying "I hate the guy" geez thats a harsh statement. TA's problem is a direct reflection of how Doc plays him. Doc is a decent coach, will be a great coach if he utilized his bench better.

starting 5 of Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Garnett & Perkins = Whom strive off defense and Rondos Ability to push the ball quickly and make plays.

Bench of, House, TA, Scalabrine, Powe & Davis = House is a shooter, not a play maker, TA is a slasher/defender of the passing lanes, not a shooter/ball handler/nor play maker, Scal is another shooter, Powe is a post player/defender/rebounder, and Glen Davis now has evolved into being a Shooter/Scorer/defender. Is something missing???? of course!!! There is no play maker coming off the bench. These guys are all stand still players @ best. They thrive off the attention of the other greats when in game.

Doc needs to mesh the bench with the starters. If Rondos in the game put in Eddie, TA or Walker and rest Ray and Pierce. etc... He benches these guys all game and then expects them to be "ready". Uh Huh ???
I could never say anything bad about Doc, but i agree that some of his line-ups are weird.  Whenever you see a bench player on the court with Rondo they consistently play better, especially Eddie.  I know Rondo can't play the whole game, but i'd rather give Paul or Ray extra rest.
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