Author Topic: Rondo vs Parker  (Read 6751 times)

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Rondo vs Parker
« on: July 06, 2009, 01:02:28 AM »

Offline jv2764

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Just throwing it out there but the Celts will have to cross this bridge eventually, do you feel comfortable throwing Rondo 60 Million next summer?  Tony Parker is an 11 Million a year player currently.  If you think Rondo is on par with Parker then you would pay him the $60 Million next summer.  If you think he isnt you dont pay him and you have to think about movinng on from Rondo.  Just curious where everyone falls on this.  I myself dont think Rondo is an $11 Million a year player yet and until he develops an outside shot and improves his free throw shooting I dont think he ever gets to that level. 

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2009, 01:05:05 AM »

Offline Who

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I myself dont think Rondo is an $11 Million a year player yet and until he develops an outside shot and improves his free throw shooting I dont think he ever gets to that level. 
If Rondo develops his outside shot and improves his FT shooting, he's a max contract player.

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2009, 01:08:36 AM »

Offline jv2764

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Let's say you have to make that decision right now based on what you know what would your eyes have seen over his first three years?  Unless his shooting improves drastically next year this is what the Celts have to face next summer.

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 01:31:33 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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You pay him the lowest amount he will accept.

We have him under contract this year, so I'm not worried.

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 01:33:41 AM »

Offline ToppersBsktball10

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Rondo all day every day son.

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2009, 12:59:54 PM »

Offline jv2764

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Every day dad? :)

 

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2009, 01:57:05 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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Rondo is not as good as Tony Parker right now. Tony Parker is hugely underrated on this board. With the exception of defense (and Rondo's defense incidentally is overrated here - he is athletic and has good hands and instincts but he takes too many breaks and too many risks on that end), Parker does everything else better than Rondo. I think Rondo is a fantastic player and an absolute pleasure to watch, and I would very much like to keep him. But he's not yet in Tony Parker's league. He could be in two years though.

So, no, I don't think Rajon Rondo is worth $12 mil a year on average. I think Rondo should reasonably get 5 years, $40 million, and I would definitely pay him 5 years, $50 million. In the end, it's very possible I would give him $60 over 5, simply because I wouldn't want to lose a player that young and valuable for nothing and because we have a short window and know that Rondo fits in. That said, we would be overpaying him in my opinion if we gave him $60 million and he didn't develop a consistent jump shot and consistent defensive effort.
Go Celtics.

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2009, 02:37:24 PM »

Offline youcanthandlethetruth113

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Rondo is not as good as Tony Parker right now. Tony Parker is hugely underrated on this board. With the exception of defense (and Rondo's defense incidentally is overrated here - he is athletic and has good hands and instincts but he takes too many breaks and too many risks on that end), Parker does everything else better than Rondo. I think Rondo is a fantastic player and an absolute pleasure to watch, and I would very much like to keep him. But he's not yet in Tony Parker's league. He could be in two years though.

So, no, I don't think Rajon Rondo is worth $12 mil a year on average. I think Rondo should reasonably get 5 years, $40 million, and I would definitely pay him 5 years, $50 million. In the end, it's very possible I would give him $60 over 5, simply because I wouldn't want to lose a player that young and valuable for nothing and because we have a short window and know that Rondo fits in. That said, we would be overpaying him in my opinion if we gave him $60 million and he didn't develop a consistent jump shot and consistent defensive effort.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing that separates Rondo from Parker is:

1) Two rings
2) Ability to FINISH consistently around the basket (they can  both get where they want whenever they want)
3) FT% consistency
4) Attitude (as rumored)
"Perk is not an alley-oop guy" - Tommy Heinson - Feb 27th 2008 vs. Cleveland

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2009, 05:49:31 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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I would tend to agree, although I left off that Rondo is actually a significantly better rebounder than Parker. And he's also probably a somewhat better passer than Parker. Rondo is just much further from a finished product, and it is a gamble to give out a big contract to a young guy with many glaring omissions from his game.

While not a great shooter, Parker is a better outside shooter than Rondo. He does still finish a bit better than Rondo in my opinion, and he is a much better FT shooter. Those differences become even bigger when both guys rely so much on beating their opponents off the dribble and getting to the basket area. On the other hand, both guys are on good rebounding teams with powerful defensive anchors in Duncan and Garnett, so Rondo's rebounding and defensive advantages (though due to inconsistency, I think the defensive advantage is slighter than many would believe - in many circumstances, it would be better if he just stayed in front of guys instead of gambling for steals) are relatively less important.

Parker's better consistency is also crucial in a point guard. While Rondo doesn't turn the ball over a lot by any stretch of the imagination, Parker has an even lower turnover rate because he doesn't have the poor stretches Rondo can have. And Parker has very good court vision and awareness, something Rondo is again, good at, but just less consistent with.

So I don't think there's an enormous difference between the two, but it is rather apparent to me that right now, Parker is a better player. Maybe the fact that I emphasized my belief that Parker is underrated overshadowed my opinion that it's not a big discrepancy. But Parker has been relied on more over a longer period of time and has proven significantly more. I just think that Parker's significantly better scoring ability puts him a level above Rondo because while Rondo can do other things better, Parker does it more consistently. If Rondo matched Parker's scoring ability, he'd be a better player by virtue of his superior rebounding and passing.

Right now, if Rondo got Tony Parker money, he'd be overpaid. Doesn't mean I wouldn't do it on potential and ability to fit in on a team with a small championship window, but he'd be overpaid. If he goes out this year and plays in the same league as Parker - specifically by being more consistent on both ends and by making say one more out of every 7 or 8 open shots (jumpers and free throws) - then I'd be fine giving him Parker money. I think he needs a lot of improvement in shooting to hit the max level.
Go Celtics.

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2009, 10:55:03 PM »

Offline jv2764

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Well put paint it green.  I know we tend to fall in love with our players but I mean all things equal I would take Parker everyday.  I think he is very underrated. 

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2009, 11:46:45 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I would tend to agree, although I left off that Rondo is actually a significantly better rebounder than Parker. And he's also probably a somewhat better passer than Parker. Rondo is just much further from a finished product, and it is a gamble to give out a big contract to a young guy with many glaring omissions from his game.

While not a great shooter, Parker is a better outside shooter than Rondo. He does still finish a bit better than Rondo in my opinion, and he is a much better FT shooter. Those differences become even bigger when both guys rely so much on beating their opponents off the dribble and getting to the basket area. On the other hand, both guys are on good rebounding teams with powerful defensive anchors in Duncan and Garnett, so Rondo's rebounding and defensive advantages (though due to inconsistency, I think the defensive advantage is slighter than many would believe - in many circumstances, it would be better if he just stayed in front of guys instead of gambling for steals) are relatively less important.

Parker's better consistency is also crucial in a point guard. While Rondo doesn't turn the ball over a lot by any stretch of the imagination, Parker has an even lower turnover rate because he doesn't have the poor stretches Rondo can have. And Parker has very good court vision and awareness, something Rondo is again, good at, but just less consistent with.

So I don't think there's an enormous difference between the two, but it is rather apparent to me that right now, Parker is a better player. Maybe the fact that I emphasized my belief that Parker is underrated overshadowed my opinion that it's not a big discrepancy. But Parker has been relied on more over a longer period of time and has proven significantly more. I just think that Parker's significantly better scoring ability puts him a level above Rondo because while Rondo can do other things better, Parker does it more consistently. If Rondo matched Parker's scoring ability, he'd be a better player by virtue of his superior rebounding and passing.

Right now, if Rondo got Tony Parker money, he'd be overpaid. Doesn't mean I wouldn't do it on potential and ability to fit in on a team with a small championship window, but he'd be overpaid. If he goes out this year and plays in the same league as Parker - specifically by being more consistent on both ends and by making say one more out of every 7 or 8 open shots (jumpers and free throws) - then I'd be fine giving him Parker money. I think he needs a lot of improvement in shooting to hit the max level.

  Here's the thing, though. You're comparing Rondo in his 3rd year to Parker in his 8th. Of course he's somewhat more consistent now. But Parker didn't sign his deal this summer. He signed it after his 3rd year. They didn't sign the Parker with 22 points, 7 assists, 3 boards with a .506 fg% and a .782 ft% to that deal. They signed the Parker with 15 points, 6 assists, 3 boards with a .447 fg% and a .702 ft%. He was a slightly better outside shooter than Rondo at the time but didn't get to the rim nearly as often as Rondo.

  Rajon's 12 points, 8 assists, 5 boards with a .505 fg% and a .642 ft%, while not perfect, stacks up pretty favorably with Parker when he signed his contract. If Parker was a free agent next summer, how much money do you think he'd get? I'd say significantly more than the deal he's on which started out at about $8.5M.

  If Rondo, as you said, hit about 1 more jumper in 7 or 8 shots and free throws he'd be close to the player Parker is now. The same Parker who, if he were to sign a contract now, would be worth much more than he's getting now. In fact, if Rondo and Parker were at close to the same level Rondo would be worth more than Parker because he's 4 years younger and will improve more than a 27 year old Parker. Giving Rondo the same type of deal that Parker got after his 3rd year isn't overpaying him at all. The deal won't start until 2010-2011, and Rondo will be 2 years older and more experienced than he was last year.

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2009, 12:05:20 AM »

Offline jv2764

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I actually think Parker may be underpaid if that's believable.  These deals are based on potential and you have to ask yourself can you see Rondo in two years being the ball player Parker is now. 

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2009, 12:21:04 AM »

Offline BballTim

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I actually think Parker may be underpaid if that's believable.  These deals are based on potential and you have to ask yourself can you see Rondo in two years being the ball player Parker is now. 

  More like can you see Rondo in 4 years being the player Parker is now. I don't see that as much of a stretch.

Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2009, 12:28:52 AM »

Offline cdif911

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once Rondo gets a girl as hot as Eva Longoria, we'll talk
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Re: Rondo vs Parker
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2009, 12:50:52 AM »

Offline Truck Lewis

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I actually think Parker may be underpaid if that's believable.  These deals are based on potential and you have to ask yourself can you see Rondo in two years being the ball player Parker is now. 

i get your overall point, but no way is parker underpaid. what is he, 3rd or 4th highest paid, behind cp3 and billups.

what do you think he should be paid? the max?  lets not forget the argument that people use against rondo (he plays with HOFs)...parker plays with the guy who is arguably the best player since the greatest player of all time
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