Sports Center: Rasheed Update

[celticinorlando]

but can we actually get him??? danny and his 2 year offers seem to drive guys away

[Casperian]

...
Rasheed Wallace is declining physically at a frightening pace, while McDyess just posted his best season in five or six years. That fills me with more confidence in McDyess' ability to post a good season next year, versus Sheed, and in future seasons.
...

This, but the whole post is worth 5 TPs.
I am not adept at stereotypical basketball talk, but this is exactly what my eyes tell me.

What I can do is quote Zach Lowe from Celticshub.

We’ll have more time to fully evaluate ‘Sheed, but here are some preliminary things to consider when debating whether ‘Sheed is worth the full mid-level exception (expected to be about $5.6 million):

1) He’s almost 35

2) In 2009, he scored the fewest points per 36 minutes (13.5) since his rookie year

3) In 2009, he recorded his lowest PER since his rookie year

4) In 2009, he recorded the lowest offensive rebounding rate of his career. (He grabbed 3.1 percent of available offensive rebounds, an unthinkably bad number that is far, far worse than the rate put up by every center in the NBA who qualified for the scoring title last season, according to Basketball Reference). In fairness, this has never been one of Wallace’s strong points.

5) In 2009, he had the lowest assist rate (7.1 percent) of his career

6) In 2009, his blocks per 36 minutes number fell to its lowest level since 2005

7) In 2009, an astonishing 89 percent of Wallace’s field goal attempts were jump shots, easily the highest number I could find among both power forwards and centers. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s simply an indication that his offensive game is very predictable now.

8 ) He has some sort of temper problem. You may have heard about this.

Look, these are facts. People love ‘Sheed. He’s colorful, he’s tough, he has a unique skill set–always has–and he said “Ball Don’t Lie.” But if this isn’t the profile of a guy on the decline, I don’t know what is. He just finished a season of surliness and occasional laziness, and he has fewer and fewer demonstrably above-average basketball skills.

A jump-shooting team and a point guard with a broken shot. Great.

Now look at the free agents out there, and tell me 2 years of the FULL MLE is a good deal for a Center who loves the 3-point-shot, but hits it at a sub-average rate, and who´s staple defense has declined to a point where it hurts your team?
And don´t get me started with the rest of the team, who already have one of the oldest rotations from positon 1-10.

Sheed for that money would be a great mistake, imo.
Give me McDyess over Sheed any day of the week, and twice on sunday.

[nickagneta]

...
Rasheed Wallace is declining physically at a frightening pace, while McDyess just posted his best season in five or six years. That fills me with more confidence in McDyess' ability to post a good season next year, versus Sheed, and in future seasons.
...

This, but the whole post is worth 5 TPs.
I am not adept at stereotypical basketball talk, but this is exactly what my eyes tell me.

What I can do is quote Zach Lowe from Celticshub.

We’ll have more time to fully evaluate ‘Sheed, but here are some preliminary things to consider when debating whether ‘Sheed is worth the full mid-level exception (expected to be about $5.6 million):

1) He’s almost 35

2) In 2009, he scored the fewest points per 36 minutes (13.5) since his rookie year

3) In 2009, he recorded his lowest PER since his rookie year

4) In 2009, he recorded the lowest offensive rebounding rate of his career. (He grabbed 3.1 percent of available offensive rebounds, an unthinkably bad number that is far, far worse than the rate put up by every center in the NBA who qualified for the scoring title last season, according to Basketball Reference). In fairness, this has never been one of Wallace’s strong points.

5) In 2009, he had the lowest assist rate (7.1 percent) of his career

6) In 2009, his blocks per 36 minutes number fell to its lowest level since 2005

7) In 2009, an astonishing 89 percent of Wallace’s field goal attempts were jump shots, easily the highest number I could find among both power forwards and centers. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It’s simply an indication that his offensive game is very predictable now.

8 ) He has some sort of temper problem. You may have heard about this.

Look, these are facts. People love ‘Sheed. He’s colorful, he’s tough, he has a unique skill set–always has–and he said “Ball Don’t Lie.” But if this isn’t the profile of a guy on the decline, I don’t know what is. He just finished a season of surliness and occasional laziness, and he has fewer and fewer demonstrably above-average basketball skills.

In 2009, the Detroit Pistons were ruined by taking their top 5 PG in the league and swapping him for a ball hawking cancer named Allen Iverson. I think given what we saw from a chemistry stand point after the trade, that Wallace's decline in numbers is extremely deceiving in judging him as declining.

Chauncey and Rasheed were tight and Wallace is a guy that is emotional and allows his emotions to effect his game.

[Casperian]

In 2009, the Detroit Pistons were ruined by taking their top 5 PG in the league and swapping him for a ball hawking cancer named Allen Iverson. I think given what we saw from a chemistry stand point after the trade, that Wallace's decline in numbers is extremely deceiving in judging him as declining.

Chauncey and Rasheed were tight and Wallace is a guy that is emotional and allows his emotions to effect his game.

He already sucked in 2008, when Chauncey was still on the team.
This has nothing to do with how "tight" Chauncey and Sheed were, it´s a simple fact of basketball and life in general: You have it, and then you lose it, and it will never come back. Sheed lost it.

[snively]

am I the only one who thinks Antonio McDyess is a better fit for Boston? furthermore, he might not eat up the whole MLE.

Sheed is a much better player.

I think Antonio McDyess is the better player, and by a large margin too.

I dunno.  I thought I saw Sheed play better post defense, and he isn't afraid to take important shots.  I like McDyess, but he has less range than Wallace, too.  Why do you think he's better?

Bah ... lost my first post. Try, try, try again.

Antonio McDyess is a vastly superior rebounder. He yanked down 9.8 rebounds in 30 minutes, while Sheed got only 7.4 in 32 minutes.

Antonio McDyess is the better all-round defender. Wallace is a better interior defender, but he's a liability on the perimeter ... because he's losing his legs and no longer has the mobility required to defend players away from the hoop ... McDyess was the Pistons best pick and roll defender (a staple of the C's defense), while Wallace was the Pistons worst. The biggest reason for the Pistons decline defensively last season, was the decline in Wallace's defense.

Dice got 10 points per game in 30 minutes for Detroit. Sheed got 12 in 32 minutes. Neither was all that efficient, a slight edge for McDyess in efficiency. Not much of a difference here, nothing to write home about. Both are good passers, Sheed being the better of the two.

Rasheed Wallace is declining physically at a frightening pace, while McDyess just posted his best season in five or six years. That fills me with more confidence in McDyess' ability to post a good season next year, versus Sheed, and in future seasons.

Bottom line -- McDyess was the Pistons best player last season. Wallace wasn't, he was one of the main reasons why Detroit suffered, he's aging and declining quickly.

These are great points Who, but I still think Sheed is a better fit.  The 5 is the weakest spot on the team.  Perk, while great, is the worst of our starting 5, we have no back-up and his position is also the hardest to find a good back-up for.  As good as Dice is, he's primarily a 4, a position already occupied by the best 4 in the game. As bad as our back-up 4s are, they're worse when they have to play at center.

Thus I would view Dice as more of a luxury than a necessity.  He'd give us the best 4-combo in the league, and he'd be fine as the 3rd big man against most of the mediocre league.  But when we need 48 minutes of good productivity at every position in the playoffs, I don't want to rely on Dice at the 5 for 15 minutes a night when that position is already the weakest on the team.  Those kind of holes will get exploited in a 7 game series, especially when we go up against Shaq/Z and Howard.

An imperfect comparison would be Powe and Baby.  Powe was the better rebounder, quicker defender and more efficient scorer, but he was positionally limited.  He was exclusively a 4.  He also had problems spacing the floor and I believe defensively, but I believe the primary factor involved in his pine time was his inability to guard 5s.  Baby, however was a better match for our needs.  He shot the J and could play the 4 or 5.  He didn't do any of these things well, but at least he could do them.  Dice can shoot the J and play the 4 at a high level. Sheed can shoot the J and play the 4 and 5.  He doesn't do all of these things well, but he can do them.

[xmuscularghandix]

 He shot the J and could play the 4 or 5.  He didn't do any of these things well, but at least he could do them. 

He didn't do any of these well?

[johnnyrondo]

Does anyone have any stats on BBD as a defender? Not talking rebounding or block shots as much. More stopping his man. I thought he stepped up his game offensively in KG's absence, but I felt he was limited defensively. Would love to see some stats proving or disproving this. Do we have any stats guys on CB?

[PosImpos]

To those saying Sheed is declining at "an alarming rate":

From Hollinger:
"Wallace has the type of body that can play in the NBA forever as long as he maintains it. Height and shooting ability are the two biggest determinants of career length, and Wallace is 6-11 with a sweet stroke; plus he's never had a serious knee or ankle injury and he plays a fairly low-impact style. That said, he still needs to stay in shape, and he didn't always seem in peak condition last season.

Nonetheless, it's reasonable to expect similar numbers from Wallace again this season. His minutes may again decline a bit as the Pistons seek to get Amir Johnson and Jason Maxiell more burn, and that may take down his per-game averages a notch, but he'll still be one of the most effective two-way power forwards in the game."

His PER and production may have gone down a little - but I think it's fair to say the whole Iverson deal and the Pistons having their worst season in years is a good explanation for that.  It was a case of him not caring, not him not being able to play.

[johnnyrondo]

Defense usually goes before offense. Lateral quickness. That sort of stuff. I heard a report that Sheed is still good down low on D, but can't keep up as well on the perimeter as he used too. So a Perkins/Sheed lineup might be poor against teams with quicker 4's

[FallGuy]

Defense usually goes before offense. Lateral quickness. That sort of stuff. I heard a report that Sheed is still good down low on D, but can't keep up as well on the perimeter as he used too. So a Perkins/Sheed lineup might be poor against teams with quicker 4's

I'm worried about this.  How do we matchup when other teams go small?

This is why I want whoever we get as our backup 3 to be tall, athletic and defensively oriented. Because he's gonna have to play some 4 at times with KG at the 5.

For me, that alone rules out the Anthony Parkers of the world.

[P2]

Sheed is looking for 3 years according to reports.  Danny offered 2.  I have a feeling it is going to be Posey all over again. All the Spurs or Cavs have to do is give him that extra year and the Celtics will miss out on getting him.

Yeah, too bad it's that way. I mean, what is going on in Beantown? Who else are they going to sign instead? All the teams are upgrading with All-Star players, so please don't tell me we end up again signing someone like POB (Robert Swift).

[PosImpos]

Our season is going to be made in the next couple of weeks.  Do we emerge as a top 3 contender again, or will we be merely in the top 5 or 6, with our only hope to get 18 that other teams will suffer serious injuries and we won't?  It all depends on whether we can get the kind of FA firepower that other teams are getting.

I sure hope we get something.  It's going to be hard for me to be nearly as enthusiastic about this season as I want to be if I have to spend the whole off-season watching our biggest rivals get the best players and us getting left in the dust.

[Bankshot]

Defense usually goes before offense. Lateral quickness. That sort of stuff. I heard a report that Sheed is still good down low on D, but can't keep up as well on the perimeter as he used too. So a Perkins/Sheed lineup might be poor against teams with quicker 4's

I'm worried about this.  How do we matchup when other teams go small?

This is why I want whoever we get as our backup 3 to be tall, athletic and defensively oriented. Because he's gonna have to play some 4 at times with KG at the 5.

For me, that alone rules out the Anthony Parkers of the world.

Yep.  Never wanted Anthony Parker.  He's can't play the 3, let alone the 4.

[johncul]

I feel signing Sheed would almost definitely push BBD out the door.  No need for redundancy when your two bigs on the bench become primarily jumpshooters. Sheed will certainly spread the floor, but for what purpose?  House is a 3 point lurker, there currently is no backup wing, Marbury drives a little bit, and if bringing back BBD was in the plans, then he shares a very similar skillset to Sheed in that both don't really bang down low too much and both favor the mid-to-long range J.  However, definite upside is that if Sheed and KG shared the floor it would force KG to sit on the block where, IMO, he does his best work.

[KevinGamble]

am I the only one who thinks Antonio McDyess is a better fit for Boston? furthermore, he might not eat up the whole MLE.

Sheed is a much better player.

I think Antonio McDyess is the better player, and by a large margin too.

I dunno.  I thought I saw Sheed play better post defense, and he isn't afraid to take important shots.  I like McDyess, but he has less range than Wallace, too.  Why do you think he's better?

Bah ... lost my first post. Try, try, try again.

Antonio McDyess is a vastly superior rebounder. He yanked down 9.8 rebounds in 30 minutes, while Sheed got only 7.4 in 32 minutes.

Antonio McDyess is the better all-round defender. Wallace is a better interior defender, but he's a liability on the perimeter ... because he's losing his legs and no longer has the mobility required to defend players away from the hoop ... McDyess was the Pistons best pick and roll defender (a staple of the C's defense), while Wallace was the Pistons worst. The biggest reason for the Pistons decline defensively last season, was the decline in Wallace's defense.

Dice got 10 points per game in 30 minutes for Detroit. Sheed got 12 in 32 minutes. Neither was all that efficient, a slight edge for McDyess in efficiency. Not much of a difference here, nothing to write home about. Both are good passers, Sheed being the better of the two.

Rasheed Wallace is declining physically at a frightening pace, while McDyess just posted his best season in five or six years. That fills me with more confidence in McDyess' ability to post a good season next year, versus Sheed, and in future seasons.

Bottom line -- McDyess was the Pistons best player last season. Wallace wasn't, he was one of the main reasons why Detroit suffered, he's aging and declining quickly.

These are some interesting points, but in my mind there is a bit of a * involved because Wallace is being defended by starters and boxed out on the boards by centers, while McDyess is up against the backups.  Doesn't that excite you to think about what Wallace could do to other team's second units!

Plus if Perk hurts his shoulder [a very realistic scenario sorry to say], wouldn't Wallace earn his 3 years of salt with us by moving in more confidently into the starting 5! 

I gotta Vote 'Sheed for off-season priority #1

Go Celts!