JR Giddens: Odd Man Out

[ssspence]

give him a chance. He wasn't recruited by kentucky after high school for no reason.

He just needs to tighten the nuts and bolts to play in the nba

Plenty of Kentucky guys make lousy pros (read: Wayne Turner). Same goes for Kansas, and he couldn't even hack it there.

I'm sorry I just feel that anyone who actually believes Giddens is going to be servicable rotation player on the Cs next season has their head in the sand. Read between the lines -- they didn't like what they saw last year.

[2short]

I'd say the main thing last year was he looked completely lost when on court.  Doesn't mean he won't make it but he simply was overwhelmed.  Walker got minutes at sf and at the least plays mean d.

In a couple of minutes in preseason and 8 total minutes during the season? Come on, these kinds of assessments particularly of a rookie I find them a bit ridiculous. JR is a better defender than Walker. He also went 2 for 3 and just had 1 turnover... for him being nervous, I think he did pretty good.

Remember though, you can't dismiss any negatives because he only played 8 minutes and then turn around and cite the positives in those 8 minutes you just dismissed. Those 8 minutes are either a valid criteria for judgment or they're not.

Of course I can... same way you can excuse a player for missing shots because he's injured, same way you can applaud a player for making shots even though he's injured.

I don't think excusing players for missing shots because they're injured is the same thing at all. I really see no parallel.

We're talking about selectively filtering data (only extracting the positives and leaving out the negatives) versus... I don't know. A totally different issue. I don't understand your argument at all.

agreed, when i say giddens looked lost it could be limited minutes for whole quarters he still looked lost much like pruitt looked his first time on court
not ready for prime time
giddens could end being very good but he needs to shine in summer league (which he could), i think the c's would welcome his good play and try and move tony but giddens has to prove he belongs
as someone else stated no one is going to give their pt to a youngster

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'd say the main thing last year was he looked completely lost when on court.  Doesn't mean he won't make it but he simply was overwhelmed.  Walker got minutes at sf and at the least plays mean d.

In a couple of minutes in preseason and 8 total minutes during the season? Come on, these kinds of assessments particularly of a rookie I find them a bit ridiculous. JR is a better defender than Walker. He also went 2 for 3 and just had 1 turnover... for him being nervous, I think he did pretty good.

Remember though, you can't dismiss any negatives because he only played 8 minutes and then turn around and cite the positives in those 8 minutes you just dismissed. Those 8 minutes are either a valid criteria for judgment or they're not.

Of course I can... same way you can excuse a player for missing shots because he's injured, same way you can applaud a player for making shots even though he's injured.

I don't think excusing players for missing shots because they're injured is the same thing at all. I really see no parallel.

We're talking about selectively filtering data (only extracting the positives and leaving out the negatives) versus... I don't know. A totally different issue. I don't understand your argument at all.

People are making him out to be garbage because he was nervous. Parallel this to a player being called garbage because he's missing shots.

Giddens was nervous because he's a rookie playing in this league for the first time... completely understandable. Parallel that with a player with a harmstring injury who's lost his shooting rhythm and can't make shots... completely understandable.

No one is talking about Giddens ability and skills, on that we can talk about... like how he needs to improve his defense, move his feet quicker, better rotations, etc. Those types of discussions I'm fine with, but concluding the worth of a player because he looked nervous (particularly with very minimal playing time)... a player that is a rookie, I find it to be rubish, same way I would feel about someone drawing an unfavorable conclusion about a player who's shooting poorly because of a harmstring injury.

I'm not selectively leaving out the negatives... I'm just saying that the basis with which people are gathering their negative ones in this particular case is very flawed and weak.

[crownsy]

give him a chance. He wasn't recruited by kentucky after high school for no reason.

He just needs to tighten the nuts and bolts to play in the nba

Plenty of Kentucky guys make lousy pros (read: Wayne Turner). Same goes for Kansas, and he couldn't even hack it there.

I'm sorry I just feel that anyone who actually believes Giddens is going to be servicable rotation player on the Cs next season has their head in the sand. Read between the lines -- they didn't like what they saw last year.

SO who's minutes did you think he'd be taking as a rookie last year, ray allen's, tony allen's, or eddie house's?

JR would have to be ridiculously good to crack our 2 spot rotation, since the front office and coaching staff love TA for some reason. Hopefully TA's latest disaster will eliminate those minutes and let JR and pruitt (if back) sink or swim.

I don;t know how good JR can or can't be, how can we, but i dont blame him for not cracking a depth chart that was 4 players deep (counting him as #4)

[kozlodoev]

Walker got minutes at sf and at the least plays mean d.

Walker plays mean d? That's news to me, unless you meant "mean dunks".

Walker's defense consisted mostly of fouling his man on just about every second possession, which was the chief reason of why he didn't see consistent playing time.

[ssspence]

give him a chance. He wasn't recruited by kentucky after high school for no reason.

He just needs to tighten the nuts and bolts to play in the nba

Plenty of Kentucky guys make lousy pros (read: Wayne Turner). Same goes for Kansas, and he couldn't even hack it there.

I'm sorry I just feel that anyone who actually believes Giddens is going to be servicable rotation player on the Cs next season has their head in the sand. Read between the lines -- they didn't like what they saw last year.

SO who's minutes did you think he'd be taking as a rookie last year, ray allen's, tony allen's, or eddie house's?

JR would have to be ridiculously good to crack our 2 spot rotation, since the front office and coaching staff love TA for some reason. Hopefully TA's latest disaster will eliminate those minutes and let JR and pruitt (if back) sink or swim.

I don;t know how good JR can or can't be, how can we, but i dont blame him for not cracking a depth chart that was 4 players deep (counting him as #4)

whose placing blame? i'm not blaming his lack of minutes on him, circumstances or anythign else -- i'm saying he's not going to earn them this year, or anytime soon on the Cs. do i think he'd play alot on the Thunder? or the Heat? or the Kings? or the Pacers? No i don't.

can anyone find one positive piece of feedback on his game that came out of the mouths of danny ainge or doc rivers other than "hard work" talk? i seriously doubt it.

they reached on the guy because they liked his tenacity and d over the CDRs, Mhah a Boutes and Chalmers of the world. he wasn't as good as they thought he'd be. he plays on a veteran team. no biggie -- but it's not happening.

they should have taken Jordan, but we've been over that too many times on the board already....

[twentythree9]

I for one believe that both JR and Sky Walker can be significant contributors to the C's this coming season.  Based on the limited time we saw the two and their experiences in the D-League, we all know the two have incredible athleticism and can really play ball.

The issue last year was their understanding of Doc's system, and in particular, Thibodeau's defense.  Under T's system, if one guy misses an assignment or doesn't keep his man in front of him when he needs to, the other team is either shooting lay-ups or free throws.  Both of them had trouble understanding the right reads and rotations.  If you go back to the year prior, this was the main reason why Doc couldn't trust Pruitt - he'd constantly let his man beat him off the dribble. 

Now with a year's experience under their belt, I really hope that both Giddens and Walker have grasped what the C's are trying to do and can earn some meaningful playing time.  They could be significant contributors this coming year in giving Pierce and Allen some much needed rest!

[BballTim]

give him a chance. He wasn't recruited by kentucky after high school for no reason.

He just needs to tighten the nuts and bolts to play in the nba

Plenty of Kentucky guys make lousy pros (read: Wayne Turner). Same goes for Kansas, and he couldn't even hack it there.

I'm sorry I just feel that anyone who actually believes Giddens is going to be servicable rotation player on the Cs next season has their head in the sand. Read between the lines -- they didn't like what they saw last year.

SO who's minutes did you think he'd be taking as a rookie last year, ray allen's, tony allen's, or eddie house's?

JR would have to be ridiculously good to crack our 2 spot rotation, since the front office and coaching staff love TA for some reason. Hopefully TA's latest disaster will eliminate those minutes and let JR and pruitt (if back) sink or swim.

I don;t know how good JR can or can't be, how can we, but i dont blame him for not cracking a depth chart that was 4 players deep (counting him as #4)

whose placing blame? i'm not blaming his lack of minutes on him, circumstances or anythign else -- i'm saying he's not going to earn them this year, or anytime soon on the Cs. do i think he'd play alot on the Thunder? or the Heat? or the Kings? or the Pacers? No i don't.

can anyone find one positive piece of feedback on his game that came out of the mouths of danny ainge or doc rivers other than "hard work" talk? i seriously doubt it.

they reached on the guy because they liked his tenacity and d over the CDRs, Mhah a Boutes and Chalmers of the world. he wasn't as good as they thought he'd be. he plays on a veteran team. no biggie -- but it's not happening.

they should have taken Jordan, but we've been over that too many times on the board already....

  If he is going to play on this team it's more than likely the yer after next when they'd want him to step into some of Eddie's minutes after Eddie's 2 year deal ends. It's not like they thought that they were picking up a replacement for Ray Allen at the end of the 1st round.

[xmuscularghandix]

What's holding him back is that he was a rookie last year. As simple as that.

nope. what's holding himback is he's not very good. have you heard anyone in the organization say anything positive about him, other than "he works really hard"? when that's all that's being said the translation is: he sucks.

capital NOPE. If the team thought he sucked they easily could have traded him for a second round pick, but by not trying to get more picks means that Ainge has trust in the young guys he already has. Billy and JR are just as good as any wingers in this ENTIRE draft.

[ssspence]

What's holding him back is that he was a rookie last year. As simple as that.

nope. what's holding himback is he's not very good. have you heard anyone in the organization say anything positive about him, other than "he works really hard"? when that's all that's being said the translation is: he sucks.

capital NOPE. If the team thought he sucked they easily could have traded him for a second round pick, but by not trying to get more picks means that Ainge has trust in the young guys he already has. Billy and JR are just as good as any wingers in this ENTIRE draft.

we heard over and over again how ainge tried to dump him for ANYTHING last year. at best his trade value is salary filler in a larger deal.

[BudweiserCeltic]

What's holding him back is that he was a rookie last year. As simple as that.

nope. what's holding himback is he's not very good. have you heard anyone in the organization say anything positive about him, other than "he works really hard"? when that's all that's being said the translation is: he sucks.

capital NOPE. If the team thought he sucked they easily could have traded him for a second round pick, but by not trying to get more picks means that Ainge has trust in the young guys he already has. Billy and JR are just as good as any wingers in this ENTIRE draft.

we heard over and over again how ainge tried to dump him for ANYTHING last year. at best his trade value is salary filler in a larger deal.

He was only willing to trade him for a first rounder this year, and more of a consequence because we had a full roster and Ainge needed to fill some needs. In theory, any pick that Ainge might've gotten of a trade would've been an improvement as Giddens was a 30th pick in the first round, so any first rounder would've been a lower pick... but that's just in theory. But the main motivation was to open a roster spot because we needed bigman help and PG help... none of those Giddens could fill and we didn't have the roster spots to fill them.

In conclusion, dump him for ANYTHING is quite an exaggeration and completely false.

[ssspence]

give him a chance. He wasn't recruited by kentucky after high school for no reason.

He just needs to tighten the nuts and bolts to play in the nba

Plenty of Kentucky guys make lousy pros (read: Wayne Turner). Same goes for Kansas, and he couldn't even hack it there.

I'm sorry I just feel that anyone who actually believes Giddens is going to be servicable rotation player on the Cs next season has their head in the sand. Read between the lines -- they didn't like what they saw last year.

SO who's minutes did you think he'd be taking as a rookie last year, ray allen's, tony allen's, or eddie house's?

JR would have to be ridiculously good to crack our 2 spot rotation, since the front office and coaching staff love TA for some reason. Hopefully TA's latest disaster will eliminate those minutes and let JR and pruitt (if back) sink or swim.

I don;t know how good JR can or can't be, how can we, but i dont blame him for not cracking a depth chart that was 4 players deep (counting him as #4)

whose placing blame? i'm not blaming his lack of minutes on him, circumstances or anythign else -- i'm saying he's not going to earn them this year, or anytime soon on the Cs. do i think he'd play alot on the Thunder? or the Heat? or the Kings? or the Pacers? No i don't.

can anyone find one positive piece of feedback on his game that came out of the mouths of danny ainge or doc rivers other than "hard work" talk? i seriously doubt it.

they reached on the guy because they liked his tenacity and d over the CDRs, Mhah a Boutes and Chalmers of the world. he wasn't as good as they thought he'd be. he plays on a veteran team. no biggie -- but it's not happening.

they should have taken Jordan, but we've been over that too many times on the board already....

  If he is going to play on this team it's more than likely the yer after next when they'd want him to step into some of Eddie's minutes after Eddie's 2 year deal ends. It's not like they thought that they were picking up a replacement for Ray Allen at the end of the 1st round.

take Eddie's minutes -- so he's an energy bench scorer now? the guy who aveeraged 16 a game at UNM? let's see if he can even make his way onto the court before we reply on him to fearlessly pump in some 3s every night.

the much more likely scenario is that a) Bill Walker continues to improve next year and gets real minutes on the wing in 2010-2011, and b) that Giddens is traded as part of an expriring deal dump with either Tony, Scal or both at or around this season's deadline, and he's looking to put a career together in the Dahntey Jones mold for the next few years.

[ssspence]

What's holding him back is that he was a rookie last year. As simple as that.

nope. what's holding himback is he's not very good. have you heard anyone in the organization say anything positive about him, other than "he works really hard"? when that's all that's being said the translation is: he sucks.

capital NOPE. If the team thought he sucked they easily could have traded him for a second round pick, but by not trying to get more picks means that Ainge has trust in the young guys he already has. Billy and JR are just as good as any wingers in this ENTIRE draft.

we heard over and over again how ainge tried to dump him for ANYTHING last year. at best his trade value is salary filler in a larger deal.

He was only willing to trade him for a first rounder this year, and more of a consequence because we had a full roster and Ainge needed to fill some needs. In theory, any pick that Ainge might've gotten of a trade would've been an improvement as Giddens was a 30th pick in the first round, so any first rounder would've been a lower pick... but that's just in theory. But the main motivation was to open a roster spot because we needed bigman help and PG help... none of those Giddens could fill and we didn't have the roster spots to fill them.

In conclusion, dump him for ANYTHING is quite an exaggeration and completely false.

How do you know he was only willing to trade him for a first? Yes, he was trying to, but do you actually think Ainge wouldn't have swapped him out for a high second? Of course he says he values him more than this year's crop, how else is he gonna trade the guy.

Again: I challenge anyone to come up with praise for Giddens. Practice praise, upside praise, anything. What I recall is a rough reaction at the beginning last year and silence after that. And not from the D-League coach who has no choice -- thi if i recall he said JR's defense needed major work as well -- supposedly a strong suit when they drafted him.

[BballTim]

give him a chance. He wasn't recruited by kentucky after high school for no reason.

He just needs to tighten the nuts and bolts to play in the nba

Plenty of Kentucky guys make lousy pros (read: Wayne Turner). Same goes for Kansas, and he couldn't even hack it there.

I'm sorry I just feel that anyone who actually believes Giddens is going to be servicable rotation player on the Cs next season has their head in the sand. Read between the lines -- they didn't like what they saw last year.

SO who's minutes did you think he'd be taking as a rookie last year, ray allen's, tony allen's, or eddie house's?

JR would have to be ridiculously good to crack our 2 spot rotation, since the front office and coaching staff love TA for some reason. Hopefully TA's latest disaster will eliminate those minutes and let JR and pruitt (if back) sink or swim.

I don;t know how good JR can or can't be, how can we, but i dont blame him for not cracking a depth chart that was 4 players deep (counting him as #4)

whose placing blame? i'm not blaming his lack of minutes on him, circumstances or anythign else -- i'm saying he's not going to earn them this year, or anytime soon on the Cs. do i think he'd play alot on the Thunder? or the Heat? or the Kings? or the Pacers? No i don't.

can anyone find one positive piece of feedback on his game that came out of the mouths of danny ainge or doc rivers other than "hard work" talk? i seriously doubt it.

they reached on the guy because they liked his tenacity and d over the CDRs, Mhah a Boutes and Chalmers of the world. he wasn't as good as they thought he'd be. he plays on a veteran team. no biggie -- but it's not happening.

they should have taken Jordan, but we've been over that too many times on the board already....

  If he is going to play on this team it's more than likely the yer after next when they'd want him to step into some of Eddie's minutes after Eddie's 2 year deal ends. It's not like they thought that they were picking up a replacement for Ray Allen at the end of the 1st round.

take Eddie's minutes -- so he's an energy bench scorer now? the guy who aveeraged 16 a game at UNM? let's see if he can even make his way onto the court before we reply on him to fearlessly pump in some 3s every night.

  Calm down. I said IF he's going to play it would likely be the year after next taking some of the minutes Eddie's playing now. That would mean backup shooting guard. Not necessarily Eddie's role on the team. If I said Shaq was going to take a lot of minutes from big Z would you think I meant that he was going to lose 50 pounds and become a perimeter player?

[BudweiserCeltic]

What's holding him back is that he was a rookie last year. As simple as that.

nope. what's holding himback is he's not very good. have you heard anyone in the organization say anything positive about him, other than "he works really hard"? when that's all that's being said the translation is: he sucks.

capital NOPE. If the team thought he sucked they easily could have traded him for a second round pick, but by not trying to get more picks means that Ainge has trust in the young guys he already has. Billy and JR are just as good as any wingers in this ENTIRE draft.

we heard over and over again how ainge tried to dump him for ANYTHING last year. at best his trade value is salary filler in a larger deal.

He was only willing to trade him for a first rounder this year, and more of a consequence because we had a full roster and Ainge needed to fill some needs. In theory, any pick that Ainge might've gotten of a trade would've been an improvement as Giddens was a 30th pick in the first round, so any first rounder would've been a lower pick... but that's just in theory. But the main motivation was to open a roster spot because we needed bigman help and PG help... none of those Giddens could fill and we didn't have the roster spots to fill them.

In conclusion, dump him for ANYTHING is quite an exaggeration and completely false.

How do you know he was only willing to trade him for a first? Yes, he was trying to, but do you actually think Ainge wouldn't have swapped him out for a high second? Of course he says he values him more than this year's crop, how else is he gonna trade the guy.

Again: I challenge anyone to come up with praise for the guy. Practice praise, upside praise, anything. What I recall is a rough reaction at the beginning last year and silence after that. And not from the D-League coach who has no choice -- thi if i recall he said JR's defense needed major work as well -- supposedly a strong suit when they drafted him.

Well the report said that Ainge was looking to trade him for a first rounder... if you're going to believe the report you have to believe that portion also.

As for articles about Ainge and Giddens... find me places where he was asked about Giddens and we'll see what he answers... if he isn't asked about him, there's nothing to comment on. But I'm pretty sure I remember reading in various places that he was quite happy and satisfied on is progress over there and on how he was playing.

Anyways, I don't care for Danny's opinion... I've seen him play and I like what I see in him. I can draw my own conclusions.