Mark Spears -" Rondo or Ray weren't offered to Memphis for the # 2 Pick"

[Evantime34]

Selling high is always a good idea, but I bet Memphis laughed at them. There is no way other teams are as high on Perk as we are. I would miss Perk and Walker but I think the second pick bringing back Harden, Thabeet or Rubio would all be worth that trade.

I haven't seen this confirmed, but a poster on RealGM had this to say:

Mike Felger on Comcast Sportsnet said he heard through the grapevine (i.e. Mark Spears) that Danny Ainge offered Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker straight up to Memphis for the #2 pick. I guess he would have replaced Perkins in free agency.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914053

I'm checking to see if I can get this confirmed by Comcast before I run it on the front page.

Does Danny honestly think that anybody in this draft will be better than Kendrick Perkins - at any point in time?  Griffin is the only one.  Everybody else has question marks.

Trading away Perkins would be a mistake.  Trading away Perkins for the #2 pick in this draft would be a catastrophe.

Yea I don't quite get this trade. Perk is a solid center and has a great contract. Griffin will be gone so Dannys looking at Thebeet or Rubio? Thebeet maybe decent but I'd take Perk over him and if we get Rubio you'd have to think Rondo is getting traded.

I'm baffled, when there was talk of Ray for the 2nd pick, people seemed ok with it. Now that Perk's name is dropped people have no interest in the 2nd pick. Ray is part of the big 3 if you don't want to see Perk go for that pick you shouldn't even consider, Ray.

[greenwise]

But the offer was turned down...right? This trade as it is presented would be awful for the C's

[MVP]

is this how Danny frees up enough space to make a max offer next summer?

if so, at what cost?  who plays center?

The 2nd pick would get pretty much the same salary as Perk would be getting so this wouldn't free up any salary.

[rondohondo]

is this how Danny frees up enough space to make a max offer next summer?

if so, at what cost?  who plays center?

Rasheed Wallace? Zaza? Gortat. This would allow us to get a player with potential in the draft who hopefully can contribute right away and use the MLE to fill the hole at Center.

Here is a better question, if Danny offered Perk and Walker for #2, would he do it for #3? It would make sense because Oklahoma City traded for Tyson Chandler last year , so they are obviously looking for a young starting Center. They don't appear to be in love with anyone here so talk is that they could move the pick

We could take Harden with the #3 pick

Boston 2009-10 Roster

PG: Rondo / Marbury
SG: Ray   / Harden ( #3)
SF: PP    / Grant Hill( Vet Min)
PF: KG    / BBD
 C: Rasheed , Zaza or Gortat

[BballTim]

I haven't seen this confirmed, but a poster on RealGM had this to say:

Mike Felger on Comcast Sportsnet said he heard through the grapevine (i.e. Mark Spears) that Danny Ainge offered Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker straight up to Memphis for the #2 pick. I guess he would have replaced Perkins in free agency.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914053

I'm checking to see if I can get this confirmed by Comcast before I run it on the front page.

Does Danny honestly think that anybody in this draft will be better than Kendrick Perkins - at any point in time?  Griffin is the only one.  Everybody else has question marks.

Trading away Perkins would be a mistake.  Trading away Perkins for the #2 pick in this draft would be a catastrophe.

Yea I don't quite get this trade. Perk is a solid center and has a great contract. Griffin will be gone so Dannys looking at Thebeet or Rubio? Thebeet maybe decent but I'd take Perk over him and if we get Rubio you'd have to think Rondo is getting traded.

  Perk and Walker for the pick, Ray and Scal and Tony for Amare and Barbosa? Or, more realistic, Perk and Walker for the pick, then Ray, Scal, Tony and the pick for Amare and Barbosa and the Sun's pick? That gives us Amare/KG/Paul/Barbosa/Rondo. I'd rather the "we keep the pick" scenario, but both are interesting.

   For a kicker, sign Ray back next summer to the MLE.

[Jeff]

is this how Danny frees up enough space to make a max offer next summer?

if so, at what cost?  who plays center?

The 2nd pick would get pretty much the same salary as Perk would be getting so this wouldn't free up any salary.

good point

we can't even get Darko in return without tossing in some extra contracts

[VPofCommonSense]

why do this trade?  the best player in this draft not named Griffin is Rubio, a PG, and we already have a great one.

so we trade perk for rubio and trade rondo for amare... and my head is spinning.

Rubio and Amare have more upside, but they're going to be more expensive.  And we give up Ray, for barbosa, who I dont like. 

I don't know. 

Why not just just sign the Birdman and Anthony Parker and have another go at the championship next year?

[lon3lytoaster]

If this is the case, with Perk to Memphis, looks like Danny has his sights on Amare. I doubt a lot we would take Thabeet. Obviously we aren't trading Garnett, and putting Perk OR Amare on the bench makes no sense.

So what, we could trade Perkins and Walker for the second pick and Marko Jaric (His wife would be nice to look at occasionally) then we draft either Harden or Rubio then Ray, Rondo, and Giddens for Amare, Barbosa plus hopefully the 14th pick where we would take Flynn.

I do it if we can get Harden and Flynn back in the deal, if that's possible in anyway sign me up.

[MattG12]

Selling high is always a good idea, but I bet Memphis laughed at them. There is no way other teams are as high on Perk as we are. I would miss Perk and Walker but I think the second pick bringing back Harden, Thabeet or Rubio would all be worth that trade.

I haven't seen this confirmed, but a poster on RealGM had this to say:

Mike Felger on Comcast Sportsnet said he heard through the grapevine (i.e. Mark Spears) that Danny Ainge offered Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker straight up to Memphis for the #2 pick. I guess he would have replaced Perkins in free agency.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914053

I'm checking to see if I can get this confirmed by Comcast before I run it on the front page.

Does Danny honestly think that anybody in this draft will be better than Kendrick Perkins - at any point in time?  Griffin is the only one.  Everybody else has question marks.

Trading away Perkins would be a mistake.  Trading away Perkins for the #2 pick in this draft would be a catastrophe.

Yea I don't quite get this trade. Perk is a solid center and has a great contract. Griffin will be gone so Dannys looking at Thebeet or Rubio? Thebeet maybe decent but I'd take Perk over him and if we get Rubio you'd have to think Rondo is getting traded.

I'm baffled, when there was talk of Ray for the 2nd pick, people seemed ok with it. Now that Perk's name is dropped people have no interest in the 2nd pick. Ray is part of the big 3 if you don't want to see Perk go for that pick you shouldn't even consider, Ray.

What if it was Ray for the second pick, which we use to get Thabeet... and then we sign Ben Gordon with the MLE. Then we don't need Sheed or Zaza or McDyess or anybody like that...

[nickagneta]

First, I think Thabeet is going to be a heck of a lot better than anyone here is giving him credit for. I see future DPOY written all over him.

Second, Danny could be very worried about the long term viability of Perk's shoulder. Could playing an entire year and beating it up lead to chronic May and June problems that cause playoff complications?

Third, what's the problem with making the trade, drafting Thabeet and using him exclusively as the first center off the bench for two years or so and signing Rasheed Wallace or Marcin Gortat signed for longer? If the Celtics then re-sign Powe and Baby they have the following front court:

KG - Baby - Scal - Powe

Gortat/Wallace - Thabeet - Baby

Then Thabeet is under a cost controlled contract for four years and the Celtics can develop him and leave the Big Three era with Rondo at PG and Thabeet at center anchoring the two toughest positions to find good players.

Of course all this optimism is based entirely on my opinion of Thabeet's future potential and his ability to reach it. Maybe Danny concurs with me and that's why he is so willing to depart with Perk for a guy that is 7'3", weighs 275 lbs, has a wingspan of 7'7" and has taken leaps and bounds in his development since first playing organized basketball just 4-5 years ago.

I think his ceiling is huge and being put on a veteran team like Boston where he can develop by playing only the best will help further his development. Too often the reason bigs don't work out is because they are drafted so high in the draft and end up on bad teams where they play right away and never take the time to learn properly. In this atmosphere, a very intelligent individual like Thabeet would thrive.

[PosImpos]

Selling high is always a good idea, but I bet Memphis laughed at them. There is no way other teams are as high on Perk as we are. I would miss Perk and Walker but I think the second pick bringing back Harden, Thabeet or Rubio would all be worth that trade.

I haven't seen this confirmed, but a poster on RealGM had this to say:

Mike Felger on Comcast Sportsnet said he heard through the grapevine (i.e. Mark Spears) that Danny Ainge offered Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker straight up to Memphis for the #2 pick. I guess he would have replaced Perkins in free agency.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914053

I'm checking to see if I can get this confirmed by Comcast before I run it on the front page.

Does Danny honestly think that anybody in this draft will be better than Kendrick Perkins - at any point in time?  Griffin is the only one.  Everybody else has question marks.

Trading away Perkins would be a mistake.  Trading away Perkins for the #2 pick in this draft would be a catastrophe.

Yea I don't quite get this trade. Perk is a solid center and has a great contract. Griffin will be gone so Dannys looking at Thebeet or Rubio? Thebeet maybe decent but I'd take Perk over him and if we get Rubio you'd have to think Rondo is getting traded.

I'm baffled, when there was talk of Ray for the 2nd pick, people seemed ok with it. Now that Perk's name is dropped people have no interest in the 2nd pick. Ray is part of the big 3 if you don't want to see Perk go for that pick you shouldn't even consider, Ray.

Ray isn't the future of our team.  Ray isn't a solid Center in a league where solid young centers are hard to come by.  The SG position is much easier to replace than the C position.  This league is deep in guards.  I like Ray, but he's getting old, and he's our biggest trading chip because of his expiring contract.  So yes, I think it's much more reasonable to consider trading Ray than it is to consider trading Perkins.

[Fafnir]

Selling high is always a good idea, but I bet Memphis laughed at them. There is no way other teams are as high on Perk as we are. I would miss Perk and Walker but I think the second pick bringing back Harden, Thabeet or Rubio would all be worth that trade.

I haven't seen this confirmed, but a poster on RealGM had this to say:

Mike Felger on Comcast Sportsnet said he heard through the grapevine (i.e. Mark Spears) that Danny Ainge offered Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker straight up to Memphis for the #2 pick. I guess he would have replaced Perkins in free agency.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914053

I'm checking to see if I can get this confirmed by Comcast before I run it on the front page.

Does Danny honestly think that anybody in this draft will be better than Kendrick Perkins - at any point in time?  Griffin is the only one.  Everybody else has question marks.

Trading away Perkins would be a mistake.  Trading away Perkins for the #2 pick in this draft would be a catastrophe.

Yea I don't quite get this trade. Perk is a solid center and has a great contract. Griffin will be gone so Dannys looking at Thebeet or Rubio? Thebeet maybe decent but I'd take Perk over him and if we get Rubio you'd have to think Rondo is getting traded.

I'm baffled, when there was talk of Ray for the 2nd pick, people seemed ok with it. Now that Perk's name is dropped people have no interest in the 2nd pick. Ray is part of the big 3 if you don't want to see Perk go for that pick you shouldn't even consider, Ray.

Ray isn't the future of our team.  Ray isn't a solid Center in a league where solid young centers are hard to come by.  The SG position is much easier to replace than the C position.  This league is deep in guards.  I like Ray, but he's getting old, and he's our biggest trading chip because of his expiring contract.  So yes, I think it's much more reasonable to consider trading Ray than it is to consider trading Perkins.

Not if you're trading Perkins for a big man whom you think is going to be better. I like Perkins, but he's probably approaching his ceiling as a player. One of the best defensive centers of the game with an improving offensive touch, but that's all.

If Danny thinks Thabeet can be a elite defender like KG someday I can see him making this move. It doesn't matter though, doesn't look like it is happening.

[PosImpos]

Selling high is always a good idea, but I bet Memphis laughed at them. There is no way other teams are as high on Perk as we are. I would miss Perk and Walker but I think the second pick bringing back Harden, Thabeet or Rubio would all be worth that trade.

I haven't seen this confirmed, but a poster on RealGM had this to say:

Mike Felger on Comcast Sportsnet said he heard through the grapevine (i.e. Mark Spears) that Danny Ainge offered Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker straight up to Memphis for the #2 pick. I guess he would have replaced Perkins in free agency.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914053

I'm checking to see if I can get this confirmed by Comcast before I run it on the front page.

Does Danny honestly think that anybody in this draft will be better than Kendrick Perkins - at any point in time?  Griffin is the only one.  Everybody else has question marks.

Trading away Perkins would be a mistake.  Trading away Perkins for the #2 pick in this draft would be a catastrophe.

Yea I don't quite get this trade. Perk is a solid center and has a great contract. Griffin will be gone so Dannys looking at Thebeet or Rubio? Thebeet maybe decent but I'd take Perk over him and if we get Rubio you'd have to think Rondo is getting traded.

I'm baffled, when there was talk of Ray for the 2nd pick, people seemed ok with it. Now that Perk's name is dropped people have no interest in the 2nd pick. Ray is part of the big 3 if you don't want to see Perk go for that pick you shouldn't even consider, Ray.

Ray isn't the future of our team.  Ray isn't a solid Center in a league where solid young centers are hard to come by.  The SG position is much easier to replace than the C position.  This league is deep in guards.  I like Ray, but he's getting old, and he's our biggest trading chip because of his expiring contract.  So yes, I think it's much more reasonable to consider trading Ray than it is to consider trading Perkins.

Not if you're trading Perkins for a big man whom you think is going to be better. I like Perkins, but he's probably approaching his ceiling as a player. One of the best defensive centers of the game with an improving offensive touch, but that's all.

If Danny thinks Thabeet can be a elite defender like KG someday I can see him making this move. It doesn't matter though, doesn't look like it is happening.

I agree, it's almost certainly not happening.

That's probably for the best, too, because even if Thabeet has a higher ceiling than Perkins (let's see him put on some muscle), he won't reach anywhere close to that ceiling for at least a few years, and ostensibly our hope must be to win NOW and not in a few years when the Big 3 are all old and on the verge of retirement.  Any big moves this off-season really ought to be in the interest of winning NOW while ideally also setting us up for the future somehow.  Trading Perk for Thabeet makes us worse now and only possibly makes us better in the future.

[Fafnir]

Selling high is always a good idea, but I bet Memphis laughed at them. There is no way other teams are as high on Perk as we are. I would miss Perk and Walker but I think the second pick bringing back Harden, Thabeet or Rubio would all be worth that trade.

I haven't seen this confirmed, but a poster on RealGM had this to say:

Mike Felger on Comcast Sportsnet said he heard through the grapevine (i.e. Mark Spears) that Danny Ainge offered Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker straight up to Memphis for the #2 pick. I guess he would have replaced Perkins in free agency.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914053

I'm checking to see if I can get this confirmed by Comcast before I run it on the front page.

Does Danny honestly think that anybody in this draft will be better than Kendrick Perkins - at any point in time?  Griffin is the only one.  Everybody else has question marks.

Trading away Perkins would be a mistake.  Trading away Perkins for the #2 pick in this draft would be a catastrophe.

Yea I don't quite get this trade. Perk is a solid center and has a great contract. Griffin will be gone so Dannys looking at Thebeet or Rubio? Thebeet maybe decent but I'd take Perk over him and if we get Rubio you'd have to think Rondo is getting traded.

I'm baffled, when there was talk of Ray for the 2nd pick, people seemed ok with it. Now that Perk's name is dropped people have no interest in the 2nd pick. Ray is part of the big 3 if you don't want to see Perk go for that pick you shouldn't even consider, Ray.

Ray isn't the future of our team.  Ray isn't a solid Center in a league where solid young centers are hard to come by.  The SG position is much easier to replace than the C position.  This league is deep in guards.  I like Ray, but he's getting old, and he's our biggest trading chip because of his expiring contract.  So yes, I think it's much more reasonable to consider trading Ray than it is to consider trading Perkins.

Not if you're trading Perkins for a big man whom you think is going to be better. I like Perkins, but he's probably approaching his ceiling as a player. One of the best defensive centers of the game with an improving offensive touch, but that's all.

If Danny thinks Thabeet can be a elite defender like KG someday I can see him making this move. It doesn't matter though, doesn't look like it is happening.

I agree, it's almost certainly not happening.

That's probably for the best, too, because even if Thabeet has a higher ceiling than Perkins (let's see him put on some muscle), he won't reach anywhere close to that ceiling for at least a few years, and ostensibly our hope must be to win NOW and not in a few years when the Big 3 are all old and on the verge of retirement.  Any big moves this off-season really ought to be in the interest of winning NOW while ideally also setting us up for the future somehow.  Trading Perk for Thabeet makes us worse now and only possibly makes us better in the future.

While I definitely think Ainge should be focused on winning now, if he viewed Thabeet as a franchise big you try to make it happen. Perkins is a great role player for the Celtics now, but you need all-star bigs to win in this league. KG can only be our all-star 7 footer for so much longer before age takes its toll.

[PosImpos]

Selling high is always a good idea, but I bet Memphis laughed at them. There is no way other teams are as high on Perk as we are. I would miss Perk and Walker but I think the second pick bringing back Harden, Thabeet or Rubio would all be worth that trade.

I haven't seen this confirmed, but a poster on RealGM had this to say:

Mike Felger on Comcast Sportsnet said he heard through the grapevine (i.e. Mark Spears) that Danny Ainge offered Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker straight up to Memphis for the #2 pick. I guess he would have replaced Perkins in free agency.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=914053

I'm checking to see if I can get this confirmed by Comcast before I run it on the front page.

Does Danny honestly think that anybody in this draft will be better than Kendrick Perkins - at any point in time?  Griffin is the only one.  Everybody else has question marks.

Trading away Perkins would be a mistake.  Trading away Perkins for the #2 pick in this draft would be a catastrophe.

Yea I don't quite get this trade. Perk is a solid center and has a great contract. Griffin will be gone so Dannys looking at Thebeet or Rubio? Thebeet maybe decent but I'd take Perk over him and if we get Rubio you'd have to think Rondo is getting traded.

I'm baffled, when there was talk of Ray for the 2nd pick, people seemed ok with it. Now that Perk's name is dropped people have no interest in the 2nd pick. Ray is part of the big 3 if you don't want to see Perk go for that pick you shouldn't even consider, Ray.

Ray isn't the future of our team.  Ray isn't a solid Center in a league where solid young centers are hard to come by.  The SG position is much easier to replace than the C position.  This league is deep in guards.  I like Ray, but he's getting old, and he's our biggest trading chip because of his expiring contract.  So yes, I think it's much more reasonable to consider trading Ray than it is to consider trading Perkins.

Not if you're trading Perkins for a big man whom you think is going to be better. I like Perkins, but he's probably approaching his ceiling as a player. One of the best defensive centers of the game with an improving offensive touch, but that's all.

If Danny thinks Thabeet can be a elite defender like KG someday I can see him making this move. It doesn't matter though, doesn't look like it is happening.

I agree, it's almost certainly not happening.

That's probably for the best, too, because even if Thabeet has a higher ceiling than Perkins (let's see him put on some muscle), he won't reach anywhere close to that ceiling for at least a few years, and ostensibly our hope must be to win NOW and not in a few years when the Big 3 are all old and on the verge of retirement.  Any big moves this off-season really ought to be in the interest of winning NOW while ideally also setting us up for the future somehow.  Trading Perk for Thabeet makes us worse now and only possibly makes us better in the future.

While I definitely think Ainge should be focused on winning now, if he viewed Thabeet as a franchise big you try to make it happen. Perkins is a great role player for the Celtics now, but you need all-star bigs to win in this league. KG can only be our all-star 7 footer for so much longer before age takes its toll.

I understand what you're saying, and it's a valid point, but even if Thabeet will be an All-Star big - which is questionable; DraftExpress, for instance, compares him to Dalembert and Diop - he will only be an All-Star in a few years when the core players who make our team a championship contender are at the end of their careers. 

In other words, we might have a couple solid building blocks for the future (Rondo + Thabeet) but we probably wouldn't be a championship team for a while because the Big 3 will have moved on or retired by then.

My impression is that most people seem to agree that the priority should be to try to win now while we have a championship caliber team, because winning a championship now is much better than guaranteeing that we are simply a non-contender playoff team for years to come.