This is why I can't stand Rajon Rondo

[cordobes]

But blaming him for any and all offensive woes seems a little extreme.

Who did that? You really have knack for strawman arguments. The point is that the opponents game plan around Rondo's weaknesses, not around those from other players. If you want to use economic jargon, Rondo's inconsistency produces more negative externalities, while if Paul or Ray have a bad game, they certainly impact the team production, but they don't produce externalities to the same degree - their inconsistency is reflected onto their production, but doesn't go so far beyond that. This is why Rondo's inconsistency has a bigger impact. I can't explain any better that this.

The announcers stuff, with all the detail, is hilarious. You actually take note of that stuff?

Ray and/or Paul having a bad game doesn't affect the rest of the team like Rondo? What is that based on?

Because the opponents just don't play Rondo and opt to shut down everybody else by playing 5 on 4. Jesus Christ, Doc has said basically this after the playoffs, what's so difficult to understand about this?

As for Rondo's game, the Bulls played him the same way, but he was still able to penetrate without a DH in the middle. Also, ORL was much better at rotating and collapsing on penetration (for Paul as well as Rondo).

It's not about him being able to penetrate or not.

Bottom line: Rondo is now a top 5 PG in the league, and this hypercritical analysis of his game has become one of those topics that only makes sense in the blogosphere.

Why is this hypercritical? Again, was Doc Rivers being hypercritical?

Doc doesn't obsess about it the way that is done here. certainly you have gone well beyond the level of criticism from Doc if for no other reason than the sheer volume posts. I mean, seriously, this is absurd.

This is not an argument, just an uneducated attempt of trying to make personal attacks. Let's move on. If you disagree with any of my assessment of Rondo's strengths/weaknesses, explain why. 

and it is about penetration because that is Rondo's game. ORL was better at defending the paint, so Rondo was less effective in that series. plus, Rondo is much more affected by no KG on the offensive end than Ray or Paul. They have established a very solid connection on the offensive end.

Rondo is not a scoring point. That's not his bag. So his lack of a jump shot is not the problem that it is being made out to be here.

The problem with Rondo's jump-shot, isn't exactly how it affects his scoring prowess.

It's how it affects the team offense by allowing the opponent to play 5 vs. 4 on the rest of the team, because the guy who was supposed to be guarding Rondo can cheat so much.

Top 5 PG, okay...

I still can't understand your point and I have to repeat this question: why does that (if a player is top5, top10 or whatever) matter when one analyses the strengths/weaknesses of a player?

[winsomme]

This is not an argument, just an uneducated attempt of trying to make personal attacks. Let's move on. If you disagree with any of my assessment of Rondo's strengths/weaknesses, explain why.

"uneducated", methinks the personal attacks are being levied in the opposite direction.

as for my disagreement with your analysis, it is the same as it has always been on this topic with you, you overstate the significance of Rondo's weaknesses and the impact they have on the team by continually making the same point.

Okay, Rondo doesn't have a jumpshot. We got it. Every PG has flaws, Rondo's is his jumpshot. But the other elements of his game are strong enough to bring him amongst the elite players in the league at his position.

Top 5 PG, okay...

I still can't understand your point and I have to repeat this question: why does that (if a player is top5, top10 or whatever) matter when one analyses the strengths/weaknesses of a player?

it puts the "weaknesses" in perspective, something desperately needed on this topic IMO.

[cordobes]

as for my disagreement with your analysis, it is the same as it has always been on this topic with you, you overstate the significance of Rondo's weaknesses and the impact they have on the team by continually making the same point.

Okay, Rondo doesn't have a jumpshot. We got it. Every PG has flaws, Rondo's is his jumpshot.

Why is it overstated? It seems to me your best argument in defence of your thesis is overstating that I overstate the issue. Is there another one? Do you disagree that his lack of a jump-shot affects the team offense in a way that it's not common? Do you agree with Doc's statements about this issue after the Orlando series? I didn't say nothing substantially different; in fact I was labelled a hater for saying the exact same thing, as you certainly remember.

But the other elements of his game are strong enough to bring him amongst the elite players in the league at his position.

I agree. Is that your overall point?

[winsomme]

as for my disagreement with your analysis, it is the same as it has always been on this topic with you, you overstate the significance of Rondo's weaknesses and the impact they have on the team by continually making the same point.

Okay, Rondo doesn't have a jumpshot. We got it. Every PG has flaws, Rondo's is his jumpshot.

Why is it overstated? It seems to me your best argument in defence of your thesis is overstating that I overstate the issue. Is there another one? Do you disagree that his lack of a jump-shot affects the team offense in a way that it's not common? Do you agree with Doc's statements about this issue after the Orlando series? I didn't say nothing substantially different; in fact I was labelled a hater for saying the exact same thing, as you certainly remember.

But the other elements of his game are strong enough to bring him amongst the elite players in the league at his position.

I agree. Is that your overall point?

Yes, that is my overall point. Rondo's lack of a jump shot is not the huge negative that his critics seem to think it is...He more than compensates for it in other areas of the game.

[cordobes]

Yes, that is my overall point. Rondo's lack of a jump shot is not the huge negative that his critics seem to think it is...He more than compensates for it in other areas of the game.

It's not "huge" or "small", it is what it is. It impacts the game deeply, not exactly his own game, in the sense that avoids him from scoring or whatever, but the overall team offence, by limiting what his teammates are allowed to do. The fact that he compensates for it, is moot, unless you're assessing Rondo's overall value as a player and contributor.

[winsomme]

Yes, that is my overall point. Rondo's lack of a jump shot is not the huge negative that his critics seem to think it is...He more than compensates for it in other areas of the game.

It's not "huge" or "small", it is what it is. It impacts the game deeply, not exactly his own game, in the sense that avoids him from scoring or whatever, but the overall team offence, by limiting what his teammates are allowed to do. The fact that he compensates for it, is moot, unless you're assessing Rondo's overall value as a player and contributor.

it's not "huge" or "small", but it affects the game "deeply"? You don't see the contradiction in that?

the thing that affects the game "deeply" IS his overall game. That's why you need to look at his overall game when you talk about the impact he has on it and not JUST his lack of a jumpshot.

[cordobes]

it's not "huge" or "small", but it affects the game "deeply"? You don't see the contradiction in that?

the thing that affects the game "deeply" IS his overall game. That's why you need to look at his overall game when you talk about the impact he has on it and not JUST his lack of a jumpshot.

But why must we see this issue from a heuristic perspective? I talk a lot about his overall game, but you never seem interested to reply to those other posts, so I end up focusing my posts more about this issue.

Once for all, where you disagree with me? You disagree that his lack of a jump-shot often forces the rest of the team to play 4 on 5? You disagree that many of his other perceived problems (the passivity and inconsistency he's often accused, for example) are mostly a consequence of his lack of a jump-shot and will be minimized to a big extent if he develops one? This last point is probably the most unconventional one I defend on all this subject, but I'm fairly confident that I'm right about this one. As I've always defended, Rondo's game will leap to another level - to the level of the Williams, Paul, Parker, to me those who are better PGs than him - once he develops a jump-shot. This is certainly an arguable stance, but it's one I've been defending since ever.

As a side note, I always find funny how some people try to label anyone who criticizes their favourite players and try to focus the discussion on the person instead of directing it to the basketball issues over the table. It's utterly amusing and an all-times classic.

[winsomme]

it's not "huge" or "small", but it affects the game "deeply"? You don't see the contradiction in that?

the thing that affects the game "deeply" IS his overall game. That's why you need to look at his overall game when you talk about the impact he has on it and not JUST his lack of a jumpshot.

But why must we see this issue from a heuristic perspective? I talk a lot about his overall game, but you never seem interested to reply to those other posts, so I end up focusing my posts more about this issue.

Once for all, where you disagree with me? You disagree that his lack of a jump-shot often forces the rest of the team to play 4 on 5? You disagree that many of his other perceived problems (the passivity and inconsistency he's often accused, for example) are mostly a consequence of his lack of a jump-shot and will be minimized to a big extent if he develops one? This last point is probably the most unconventional one I defend on all this subject, but I'm fairly confident that I'm right about this one. As I've always defended, Rondo's game will leap to another level - to the level of the Williams, Paul, Parker, to me those who are better PGs than him - once he develops a jump-shot. This is certainly an arguable stance, but it's one I've been defending since ever.

As a side note, I always find funny how some people try to label anyone who criticizes their favourite players and try to focus the discussion on the person instead of directing it to the basketball issues over the table. It's utterly amusing and an all-times classic.

i disagree with you on the "depth" of impact that his lack of a jump shot has on a game because that particular weakness is mitigated by his other strengths.

[Bozo]

"Only thing I really differ on is the extension. If he and his agent are willing to be realistic - and realistic is not an eight-digit number at this point - I'd talk to them. That's one of the things that we just don't know that have a significant impact on Rondo's future."

Is there a quote somewhere that Celts will not be extending Rhondo's contract.   If so, it may well be a red flag that suggests the Celts may seriously reconsider their options. 

[CoachBo]

I think it's been posted here that Wyc said there would be no extension this summer - recall reading it - but I have no first hand knowledge of it.

[garypayton]

There is a rason why it took the Celtics seven games to dispose weaker teams like Atlanta and the Cavs last year plus Chicago this year. The other teams double off Rondo and the half court offense breaks down. Teams adjust from game to game until they find a defensive assignment that works.

Not to mention during the Finals last year when we would get outscored by 15 plus points in the first quarters of games 4 and 5 in Staples because Kobe would roam on defense leaving Rondo open.



 

[Edgar]

There is a rason why it took the Celtics seven games to dispose weaker teams like Atlanta and the Cavs last year plus Chicago this year. The other teams double off Rondo and the half court offense breaks down. Teams adjust from game to game until they find a defensive assignment that works.

Not to mention during the Finals last year when we would get outscored by 15 plus points in the first quarters of games 4 and 5 in Staples because Kobe would roam on defense leaving Rondo open.



 

Bulls???
the triple double from rondo on that series is pretty crappy too huh?

And i guess missing garnett have nothing to do this year against chicago

 

rookie pg vrs 2nd year champion...mmmm...
interesting....
and not very well fundamented imho sorry

[johnnyrondo]

There is a rason why it took the Celtics seven games to dispose weaker teams like Atlanta and the Cavs last year plus Chicago this year. The other teams double off Rondo and the half court offense breaks down. Teams adjust from game to game until they find a defensive assignment that works.

Not to mention during the Finals last year when we would get outscored by 15 plus points in the first quarters of games 4 and 5 in Staples because Kobe would roam on defense leaving Rondo open.



 

We don't beat Chicago this year without Rondo. Not only that, he was our postseason MVP.

[vagrantwade]

edit - unnecessary personal attack - wdleehi

[Celtics17]

You know why I cant stand Rondo. He's just too good. I mean, the guy is a freak athletically, is a fantastic all around player, and then what does he go and do, he has to lead the team in rebounding for a series. Now, if those arent good enough reasons to despise the guy, I dont know what is. Maybe because he is our MVP of this years playoffs? Or maybe its because the guy is still very young and already this good. All I know is he better quit being so good because as this thread states, therre are just so many reason to dislike the guy already.