Analysis Why Amare makes us much much better!

[dlpin]

Well, unless you have Michael Jordan or meet a banged up team in the finals, the last 20 years have been dominated by big men like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and Garnett.

The Pistons bad boys teams had an extremely solid big man rotation, with Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman, Salley. I wouldn't exactly put BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, 2nd year Rajon Rondo as guys that are "essential" to win a title.

If Ainge is seriously in these talks, then we know he is shooting for the moon. He doesn't want to be in contention for one more year(which we would be if we stayed put and let Ray expire or extended him). He is going for a dynasty. You can't balk when franchise big men are on the trading block.

We know Ainge is into these braintypes. Amare is one of the only big men out there known to have MJ's braintype. Laugh all you want, but danny pays a lot of money for the exclusivity of the brain doctor so it is one of the myriad of factors that influences Danny. I've never heard a player complain about Doc Rivers. Marcus Banks? Doc gets every team he has to play hard. Amare looked good on D in the beginning of this season on defense, when , for the first time ever, Phoenix was actually caring about defense. Phoenix has been an awful place, chemistry wise, for a few years now. I think the brain typing makes Danny believe that Amare's attitude won't be a problem. It'll be easy to convince him to be a Center when he is a part of the new new big 3.

You are conflating power forwards with centers, and Amare has been adamant that he doesn't want to play center. That would be about the same as conflating SG and PG to point out how important guards are.
So, again, which are the dominant PF that have won titles recently?
Garnett and who else? And Garnett was certainly important, but was he more important to last year's title than Parker for the spurs in 07, or Billups in 04?

This whole "you need this position to win a title" type of argument is nonsense, especially using a PF who doesn't play D.

[Tradetime]

This whole thing is kind of interesting, considering there were a lot of people that didn't want to trade Al Jefferson two years ago for Garnett. I find that sometimes some C's fans really get a solid man love for a specific player.

Yes, Ainge definitely came away with a steal from Phoenix by buying Rondo in the first place, but getting back a guy who is 25 or 26 and could be THE franchise player in as little as 1 or 2 years, I think you make that move.

I just don't ever see Rondo being a guy that can take over a game by himself, which is what a franchise player does. We've seen Pierce do it time and time again over the years, even when Antoine was here, he willed us past that Pacer team that was favored. Then took over the game we were down by 30 to the Nets.   

Can anyone honestly ever say they see Rondo being that kind of player?

 

[jdpapa3]

Duncan is a PF. Amare could be in that elite class. He has suffered from a team that focuses 100% on offense. He put up 25, 9 boards, and 2 blocks with 60% fg shooting in his last healthy season. He put up like 30 and 11 when the Suns were actual contenders in the playoffs. The eye thing was a freak incident. He's 26 years old. Man that's young!

His team doesn't play defense. That's a huge misconception here. You hear one guy say that he doesn't play defense and everyone now uses that as the reason they want to keep Rondo, who is an extremely frustrating defender to watch.

[dlpin]

Duncan is a PF. Amare could be in that elite class. He has suffered from a team that focuses 100% on offense. He put up 25, 9 boards, and 2 blocks with 60% fg shooting in his last healthy season. He put up like 30 and 11 when the Suns were actual contenders in the playoffs. The eye thing was a freak incident. He's 26 years old. Man that's young!

His team doesn't play defense. That's a huge misconception here. You hear one guy say that he doesn't play defense and everyone now uses that as the reason they want to keep Rondo, who is an extremely frustrating defender to watch.

Duncan played as a PF only when David Robinson was around, and ever since he has played as a center. He guards other team's centers, is guarded by them, and plays exclusively in the low post. In any case, the reason he won a lot of championships is not because he is a big man, but because he is really, really good. Just like Wade is really, really good.

The reason people say he doesn't play defense is because he really doesn't play defense.

With this celtics team, I wouldnt sign him as a free agent if we had the cap space, never mind trade Rondo and Ray for him. And it is less about skill than it is about fit. A me first, offense only, powerforward is not really what we need.

[Atzar]

Amare is the PF version of Allen Iverson.  He scores, but provides nothing else at a high level.  He's an average rebounder for his size, not a good passer, doesn't play defense, doesn't make anybody else better (except for Scal).  If he ever wins a championship as the focal point of a team, I'll be surprised.  Your best player needs to be able to do more than just score to have a chance at a championship. 

With that said, I would have put Melo in that category before this year, but he grew out of it.  It is possible for a player to 'see the light'.  It's entirely possible that the same could happen for Amare, and he could become the kind of big man that champions are built around.  He has that kind of talent. 

Am I willing to bet the team's future on it happening?  Not a chance.

[KungPoweChicken]

Are people serious with these trades? How does trading a great point guard and arguably the team's best scorer for Stoudemire make us better? As much as some people may like Amare, he does not fill a need here. We have KG. The only way I would consider this deal is if a third and fourth team got involved so Memphis could somehow send us the number two pick, which we could use to draft Rubio.

[KG_ended_Bias]

Are people serious with these trades? How does trading a great point guard and arguably the team's best scorer for Stoudemire make us better? As much as some people may like Amare, he does not fill a need here. We have KG. The only way I would consider this deal is if a third and fourth team got involved so Memphis could somehow send us the number two pick, which we could use to draft Rubio.

What is people infatuation with Rubio! He plays no D himself & is a european PG. He would have little impact to a already championship caliber team. The NBA is alot more Physical from PG to C then it is in Europe. Ask all those BIG stiffs who get drafted every year. As a backup I would develop Rubio, As a starter & contributer right away I would fear for him & my oraganization that he would lose confidence in his abalities after being abused early on. Just ask Sergio Rodriguez or Gasol's homeboy from Spain who signed with the Griz everyone raved about a year or 2 ago. He is so in the past I don't even remember his name.

[Fafnir]

I don't think it's easy to build a contender around Stoudemire. He pouts, he wants to be the man, he doesn't defend, he quits when the playing style doesn't fit him, he isn't a great rebounder or passer and his only elite skill is scoring. And while he excels as a scorer, I think it's difficult, albeit not impossible, to build a winning team around such a one-dimensional player.

TP cordobes. You sum it all up a lot more concisely than I have.

[Moranis]

what have you been smoking?  I mean seriously.  The best PG's of the last 20 years have not won a championship (I'm not counting Payton's championship with the Heat since he was a role player at best).  Stocton, Kidd, Nash, Mark Jackson, etc. do not have championships.  Starting PG's that do have championships Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Jon Paxson, etc.  The only guys who were all star level PG's (though not their teams best player) since the Zeke championships are Parker and Billups. 

I'd take a 25/9 PF who is still on the upside, every single time over any PG not named Magic or Oscar and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

And which of the best PFs have? Duncan was only a PF for one championship. Other than that, what have Malone, Kemp, Nowitzki and Webber won?


This whole "you need a certain position to win the title" argument is BS.

Even assuming you just disregard Rasho Nesterovic as the Spurs starting center on the 05 team, Robinson was on the first 2 Spurs title teams playing center for both.

And last time I checked Garnett and Duncan were the two elite PF's of this generation, both have titles as their teams best player.  It is true Malone and Barkley do not (though they at least played for titles, something Nash and Kidd have failed to do), but Rodman has 5.

[Fafnir]

what have you been smoking?  I mean seriously.  The best PG's of the last 20 years have not won a championship (I'm not counting Payton's championship with the Heat since he was a role player at best).  Stocton, Kidd, Nash, Mark Jackson, etc. do not have championships.  Starting PG's that do have championships Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Jon Paxson, etc.  The only guys who were all star level PG's (though not their teams best player) since the Zeke championships are Parker and Billups. 

I'd take a 25/9 PF who is still on the upside, every single time over any PG not named Magic or Oscar and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

And which of the best PFs have? Duncan was only a PF for one championship. Other than that, what have Malone, Kemp, Nowitzki and Webber won?


This whole "you need a certain position to win the title" argument is BS.

Even assuming you just disregard Rasho Nesterovic as the Spurs starting center on the 05 team, Robinson was on the first 2 Spurs title teams playing center for both.

And last time I checked Garnett and Duncan were the two elite PF's of this generation, both have titles as their teams best player.  It is true Malone and Barkley do not (though they at least played for titles, something Nash and Kidd have failed to do), but Rodman has 5.

I have to concur. Duncan only really started playing center most of the time in 2006. Since then he's played that position more than 50% of the time. This year by starting Matt Bonner he's clearly playing center.

Personally I think the whole PF/C debate is silly. He's an old school low post big man no matter how you slice it. And one of the best 10 players in NBA history.

[BballTim]

Duncan is a PF. Amare could be in that elite class. He has suffered from a team that focuses 100% on offense. He put up 25, 9 boards, and 2 blocks with 60% fg shooting in his last healthy season. He put up like 30 and 11 when the Suns were actual contenders in the playoffs. The eye thing was a freak incident. He's 26 years old. Man that's young!

His team doesn't play defense. That's a huge misconception here. You hear one guy say that he doesn't play defense and everyone now uses that as the reason they want to keep Rondo, who is an extremely frustrating defender to watch.

  That works both ways. Put him on a team that doesn't focus 100% on offense and he's not a 25/9 guy anymore, he might be a 21/8 guy. Put him on a team with Pierce and KG (which is a great rebounding team) and he might be a 17/7 guy. Put him on the Celts and, unless he kills our chemistry, his numbers will definitely drop.