Analysis Why Amare makes us much much better!

[jdpapa3]

You can win championships with a subpar point guard. You can't win championships without an All Star big man. KG is 32 and coming off of knee surgery. I'd do this deal if there was any confidence whatsoever in that eye surgery.

[cordobes]

I don't think it's easy to build a contender around Stoudemire. He pouts, he wants to be the man, he doesn't defend, he quits when the playing style doesn't fit him, he isn't a great rebounder or passer and his only elite skill is scoring. And while he excels as a scorer, I think it's difficult, albeit not impossible, to build a winning team around such a one-dimensional player.

[Jon]

If the games were played on paper, the Perk/Amare/KG lineup would be killer.  Unfortunately, they are not. 

I just think people are totally undervaluing what we have here.  It'd be one thing if we were the '90s Pacers or Knicks, teams perpetually good, but never great.  However, this team has the potential to be an all time great team next year.  For goodness sake, we won 62 games this past season without KG for 25 games. 

For all we know, Amare gets here and doesn't fit in.  You add Amare to the starting lineup, and you lose the ability to spread the floor.  If the 6-7 guy (as the OP said) was guarding KG, it'd be way too easy to double KG since Amare, Rondo, and Perk all can't shoot. 

For as much criticism as Ray Allen gets, I don't think people realize how much his shooting makes the Big Three work.  If it was practically any other star out there, I don't think it works.  However, when you have arguably the greatest jump shooter of all time on the perimeter, it makes in nearly impossible to ever double Garnett or Pierce, which really opens up things for them. 

With Amare, I'd be afraid we'd turn into the mid 90s Suns with Olajuwon, Barkley, and Pippen.  They were good, but could never be great because none of them could spread the floor enough to fully utilize the defensive attention each player got. 

Keep the team together.  If they stay healthy, the next year or two will make whatever slump they go into after that time worth it. 

[Moranis]

Rondo MAY be great! Amare has already been borderline great for a full season already. 6-10 athletic Studs do not grow on trees & points gaurds guys 6-1 & under are easily found every single year. And I think it extends our window of winning with Perk & Amare 26 & under. A frontline to build on having a Points & rebound guy along with you Rebound, Defense & Toughness guy. A year or 2 around PERK & GARNETT will bring some toughness out of you that you would never think you had. Ask Eddie House! I live in Phoenix & watched Eddie play college at A.S.U & I laugh when I see him get tough. But it just goes to show how 2 defensive minded animals can make everyone buy in including House & Scalabrine. If Amare turned the corner Defensively we are talking top 3 M.V.P discussion every year! 28pt.10rebs. while playing lights out defense will win me over & the voters as well! Remember this guy put Tim Duncan defense to shame & had Duncan singing his praises while the series was still going just a couple of seasons back. Tim had zero answers for Amare while he was in his prime still. Just the type of gifted athlete of that size & quickness rarely seen before. A healthy Amare gives Lebron & Dwight a run for their money athletically & those guys a rarities of the sport.

That is a false statement.  Pass first, pure PG's who can run a championship team and play a high quality brand of defense like Rondo does are the players who do not grow on trees.  6'10" althetic big men with the potential to do what Amare does are available almost every year in the draft.....they dont always pan out, but the odds are better than finding a player that can do what Rondo does.  In fact, there are probably more players like Amare in the NBA right now than there are of Rondo.

and if Amare has only reached 70% of his potential, then what's Rondos percentage?  Amares had a lot more time to realize his potential.

what have you been smoking?  I mean seriously.  The best PG's of the last 20 years have not won a championship (I'm not counting Payton's championship with the Heat since he was a role player at best).  Stocton, Kidd, Nash, Mark Jackson, etc. do not have championships.  Starting PG's that do have championships Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Jon Paxson, etc.  The only guys who were all star level PG's (though not their teams best player) since the Zeke championships are Parker and Billups. 

I'd take a 25/9 PF who is still on the upside, every single time over any PG not named Magic or Oscar and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

[Jon]

Rondo MAY be great! Amare has already been borderline great for a full season already. 6-10 athletic Studs do not grow on trees & points gaurds guys 6-1 & under are easily found every single year. And I think it extends our window of winning with Perk & Amare 26 & under. A frontline to build on having a Points & rebound guy along with you Rebound, Defense & Toughness guy. A year or 2 around PERK & GARNETT will bring some toughness out of you that you would never think you had. Ask Eddie House! I live in Phoenix & watched Eddie play college at A.S.U & I laugh when I see him get tough. But it just goes to show how 2 defensive minded animals can make everyone buy in including House & Scalabrine. If Amare turned the corner Defensively we are talking top 3 M.V.P discussion every year! 28pt.10rebs. while playing lights out defense will win me over & the voters as well! Remember this guy put Tim Duncan defense to shame & had Duncan singing his praises while the series was still going just a couple of seasons back. Tim had zero answers for Amare while he was in his prime still. Just the type of gifted athlete of that size & quickness rarely seen before. A healthy Amare gives Lebron & Dwight a run for their money athletically & those guys a rarities of the sport.

That is a false statement.  Pass first, pure PG's who can run a championship team and play a high quality brand of defense like Rondo does are the players who do not grow on trees.  6'10" althetic big men with the potential to do what Amare does are available almost every year in the draft.....they dont always pan out, but the odds are better than finding a player that can do what Rondo does.  In fact, there are probably more players like Amare in the NBA right now than there are of Rondo.

and if Amare has only reached 70% of his potential, then what's Rondos percentage?  Amares had a lot more time to realize his potential.

what have you been smoking?  I mean seriously.  The best PG's of the last 20 years have not won a championship (I'm not counting Payton's championship with the Heat since he was a role player at best).  Stocton, Kidd, Nash, Mark Jackson, etc. do not have championships.  Starting PG's that do have championships Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Jon Paxson, etc.  The only guys who were all star level PG's (though not their teams best player) since the Zeke championships are Parker and Billups. 

I'd take a 25/9 PF who is still on the upside, every single time over any PG not named Magic or Oscar and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

But isn't that because there haven't been any truly great point guards since Magic left?   

Basketball is a game dominated by superstars.  A dozen or so all time greats have the majority of the NBA titles in NBA history (Russell, Chamberlain, Havlicek, Jabbar, Bird, Johnson, Jordan, Olajuwon, and Duncan).  I'd argue that there simply haven't been as may great point guards as great big men and swingmen. 

[Tr1boy]

Even though jeff doesn't want to believe it , this trade i think was prematurely discussed between both teams or "secretly discussed"

The suns i wouldn't be suprised want to slash as much salary as possible in order for them to be able to sign bosh(who they have always liked compared to staudamire) and possibly lebron. This means nash won't be resigned and then staudamire will finally become a pumpkin if he hasn't already

The key to the deal is rondo for the suns who "might" fit in better playing in the free wheeling western conference compared to the more half court oriented eastern conference.

With nash getting old staudamire is also losing his touch(no surpise) but if he came to an already established celtics team along with kg and perk would give the celtics the best front court line in the nba. In addition if rumours are true and if we get a chance at the 14th pick i can see danny drafting another rondo type player in Jeff Teague who can shoot too

I'm in no way wanting rondo nor ray allen gone but a lineup of Perk KG (with staudamire as our 6th man) would be unstoppable.

[greg683x]

Rondo MAY be great! Amare has already been borderline great for a full season already. 6-10 athletic Studs do not grow on trees & points gaurds guys 6-1 & under are easily found every single year. And I think it extends our window of winning with Perk & Amare 26 & under. A frontline to build on having a Points & rebound guy along with you Rebound, Defense & Toughness guy. A year or 2 around PERK & GARNETT will bring some toughness out of you that you would never think you had. Ask Eddie House! I live in Phoenix & watched Eddie play college at A.S.U & I laugh when I see him get tough. But it just goes to show how 2 defensive minded animals can make everyone buy in including House & Scalabrine. If Amare turned the corner Defensively we are talking top 3 M.V.P discussion every year! 28pt.10rebs. while playing lights out defense will win me over & the voters as well! Remember this guy put Tim Duncan defense to shame & had Duncan singing his praises while the series was still going just a couple of seasons back. Tim had zero answers for Amare while he was in his prime still. Just the type of gifted athlete of that size & quickness rarely seen before. A healthy Amare gives Lebron & Dwight a run for their money athletically & those guys a rarities of the sport.

That is a false statement.  Pass first, pure PG's who can run a championship team and play a high quality brand of defense like Rondo does are the players who do not grow on trees.  6'10" althetic big men with the potential to do what Amare does are available almost every year in the draft.....they dont always pan out, but the odds are better than finding a player that can do what Rondo does.  In fact, there are probably more players like Amare in the NBA right now than there are of Rondo.

and if Amare has only reached 70% of his potential, then what's Rondos percentage?  Amares had a lot more time to realize his potential.

what have you been smoking?  I mean seriously.  The best PG's of the last 20 years have not won a championship (I'm not counting Payton's championship with the Heat since he was a role player at best).  Stocton, Kidd, Nash, Mark Jackson, etc. do not have championships.  Starting PG's that do have championships Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Jon Paxson, etc.  The only guys who were all star level PG's (though not their teams best player) since the Zeke championships are Parker and Billups. 

I'd take a 25/9 PF who is still on the upside, every single time over any PG not named Magic or Oscar and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Which is why you will never be an NBA Gm.....and you even kind of indirectly proved my point as Jon pointed out (and I gave him a Tommy Point).

....and im not smoking anything, seriously, and neither is everyone else on this thread who disagrees your analysis of Amare.

If he's such a dynamic off the charts player then shouldnt he have been able to win a title with the League MVP, an NBA 6th man of the year, and Shaq??  No thank you.  The man doesnt play defense, he complains, he doesnt rebound like a stud that you say he is should, which is all more than enough for me to say NO to this trade.  We were one win away from making it as far as Amare's ever been in the playoffs with Rondo, and No Garnett.....not to mention the title.  I know we can win a title with Rondo on this team, no thanks to experiementing with Amare.

[jdpapa3]

I'd take a 25/9 PF who is still on the upside, every single time over any PG not named Magic or Oscar and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Absolutely. As long as they can score efficiently, which Amare definitely does.Rules out the Zach Randolphs of the world that shoot 41 percent or whatever.  I just don't think Rondo has best of all time potential. His game will deteriorate a lot once his athleticism starts to go. Amare's height/jump shot will not go.

Although, I think Chris Paul will be added to that list with Magic, Oscar, and Isiah in a few years. I'd take CP over Amare.

[crownsy]

Even though jeff doesn't want to believe it , this trade i think was prematurely discussed between both teams or "secretly discussed"

The suns i wouldn't be suprised want to slash as much salary as possible in order for them to be able to sign bosh(who they have always liked compared to staudamire) and possibly lebron. This means nash won't be resigned and then staudamire will finally become a pumpkin if he hasn't already

The key to the deal is rondo for the suns who "might" fit in better playing in the free wheeling western conference compared to the more half court oriented eastern conference.

With nash getting old staudamire is also losing his touch(no surpise) but if he came to an already established celtics team along with kg and perk would give the celtics the best front court line in the nba. In addition if rumours are true and if we get a chance at the 14th pick i can see danny drafting another rondo type player in Jeff Teague who can shoot too

I'm in no way wanting rondo nor ray allen gone but a lineup of Perk KG (with staudamire as our 6th man) would be unstoppable.

there is no way on goods green earth that amare accepts a 6th man role

He also hates the center position, and was quite vocal about it when he had to play it last year.

If this trade were to happen, you would have to move KG to the 5 and have perk come off the bench, which, along with the fact that steve nash might be one of the worst defenders i have ever seen, would kill our defense.

[johnnyrondo]

Amare has had a very serious knee injury and eye injury. He doesn't play defense and his character has also been questioned. Also he will be paid more than Rondo. Amare is not the safest bet for a wise long term investment.

[crownsy]

Amare has had a very serious knee injury and eye injury. He doesn't play defense and his character has also been questioned. Also he will be paid more than Rondo. Amare is not the safest bet for a wise long term investment.

also he's on a one year contract and has been very vocal about not playing the 5 and needing alot of touches. I don't think boston would be his first choice to resign or ink an extension with.

Amare has always said he needs to be "the alpha dog" (his qoute) and while he's certainly talented enough to do that, and certain teams can be built that way (like the magic) i don't think it works on our team first system.

[dlpin]

You can win championships with a subpar point guard. You can't win championships without an All Star big man. KG is 32 and coming off of knee surgery. I'd do this deal if there was any confidence whatsoever in that eye surgery.

That is faulty logic. The relative weight of the positions in contributing to a championship is of little consequence to individual trades. What matters is the particular fit and the relative value of the players involved (wasn't this line of thinking one of the reasons Sam Bowie was drafted ahead of MJ?).

Thinking in this same sort of general platitudes, defense wins championships, and we have plenty of evidence that Amare doesn't play that.

[dlpin]

what have you been smoking?  I mean seriously.  The best PG's of the last 20 years have not won a championship (I'm not counting Payton's championship with the Heat since he was a role player at best).  Stocton, Kidd, Nash, Mark Jackson, etc. do not have championships.  Starting PG's that do have championships Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, Jon Paxson, etc.  The only guys who were all star level PG's (though not their teams best player) since the Zeke championships are Parker and Billups. 

I'd take a 25/9 PF who is still on the upside, every single time over any PG not named Magic or Oscar and I wouldn't give it a second thought.

And which of the best PFs have? Duncan was only a PF for one championship. Other than that, what have Malone, Kemp, Nowitzki and Webber won?


This whole "you need a certain position to win the title" argument is BS.

[jdpapa3]

Well, unless you have Michael Jordan or meet a banged up team in the finals, the last 20 years have been dominated by big men like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and Garnett.

The Pistons bad boys teams had an extremely solid big man rotation, with Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman, Salley. I wouldn't exactly put BJ Armstrong, Steve Kerr, Derek Fisher, Brian Shaw, 2nd year Rajon Rondo as guys that are "essential" to win a title.

If Ainge is seriously in these talks, then we know he is shooting for the moon. He doesn't want to be in contention for one more year(which we would be if we stayed put and let Ray expire or extended him). He is going for a dynasty. You can't balk when franchise big men are on the trading block.

We know Ainge is into these braintypes. Amare is one of the only big men out there known to have MJ's braintype. Laugh all you want, but danny pays a lot of money for the exclusivity of the brain doctor so it is one of the myriad of factors that influences Danny. I've never heard a player complain about Doc Rivers. Marcus Banks? Doc gets every team he has to play hard. Amare looked good on D in the beginning of this season on defense, when , for the first time ever, Phoenix was actually caring about defense. Phoenix has been an awful place, chemistry wise, for a few years now. I think the brain typing makes Danny believe that Amare's attitude won't be a problem. It'll be easy to convince him to be a Center when he is a part of the new new big 3.

[BballTim]

Well, unless you have Michael Jordan or meet a banged up team in the finals, the last 20 years have been dominated by big men like Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, and Garnett.

  You're putting Amare in that class of big men? I wouldn't.