Wyc's interview with Felger

[BballTim]

Having KG would have made all the difference in the world.

It still wouldn't have made up for the fact that there was only one small forward on the roster.  There's a reason that Doc has said that adding a backup small forward is the #2 priority this off-season (after getting a center).

  It would have made up for the fact that we didn't have enough firepower on the court with Paul and/or Ray on the bench. It would have made the Chicago series much shorter and much less draining. Just take away the overtimes and Paul goes from 44 minutes a game to 40. Take away the last 3 games and give him even 1 more minute's rest a game because KG's playing and you've literally cut his first round minutes in half. I'd call that a big difference. And if we're probably only adding a couple of veteran rotation guys this offseason, being #2 on a list of 3-4 isn't exactly earth shattering.

[KCattheStripe]

Not signing Posey didn't cost this team the NBA championship.As a  matter of fact, none of Ainge's decisions did, so no he did not cost this team the NBA Championship. Bone Spurs in KG's knees did.

[Roy Hobbs]

And if we're probably only adding a couple of veteran rotation guys this offseason, being #2 on a list of 3-4 isn't exactly earth shattering.

See, it's arguments like this that unfortunately lead me to discount your posts over time.  You will defend Ainge and Ainge's decision making to any extent necessary.

Why is it so hard to admit that not signing another small forward was a mistake, or that we need to bolster the position before next season?  I mean, Doc can admit it, 99% of this blog admits it, and I'm sure both Wyc and Danny would admit it, if they were being candid.  However, you still seem to suggest that Danny's offseason was without error.

Danny screwed up by not having a competent backup 3 on the roster.  If not Posey or any number of other free agents that signed for part or all of the MLE, why not minimum salaried guys like Quinton Ross or Fred Jones, even if a guy like Matt Barnes (who there were no reports of us pursuing) may not have signed? 

I mean, doesn't Danny Ainge *ever* make mistakes?  Overall, I've been an Ainge supporter, but the posters who literally think he can do no wrong tend to erode some of my positive feelings towards Ainge, more than anything else.

[BballTim]

Ah, so now we know exactly who's responsible for the Posey mistake.

My apologies, Wyc. I will direct the blame for that mistake totally toward Ainge in the future.

One request, though: Can we rectify it this summer and get a quality backup 3 on the roster?


Roy, couldn't agree more on the 70 game canard Wyc floats. A team as thin as we were pre-injury wasn't going to win 70, period. It's an excuse, a dangerous one as we try to retool for next season.

  Aside from the fact that not signing Posey wasn't a mistake Ainge said all along that he thought Posey would be worth the money for two years, was willing to give him a 3rd year even though Posey wouldn't be worth the money by then but wasn't going to go 4 years when he only wanted to go two years. And the team wasn't going to win 70 games. What do you think? 66? 68? Wyc saying 70 was a bit enthusiastic, but it wasn't exactly delusional.

Sigh.

One more time: The "Posey mistake" is failing to resign a competent small forward to back up Pierce, as Roy has articulated in this thread - and I have articulated on this board time and again. The facts are unmistakable: The failure to get Pierce competent bench help hurt this team immeasurably. It is one of the most glaring front office mistakes in recent NBA memory.

And as we've seen from Cleveland, regular season wins are rather meaningless against a balanced and deep basketball team, something the 08-09 Celtics never were.

  Ok. But if the "Posey mistake" was just not signing a backup sf and not about signing Posey, why did Wyc saying he would have given Posey a 4th year make you say he wasn't responsible for the "Posey mistake"? You somehow thought that Danny was allowed to offer the MLE to Maggette and to Posey but wasn't allowed to sign a backup? Maybe if you kept the context of the "Posey mistake" straight other people would too. And funny but I don't recall you saying Cleveland was lacking in depth and balance before they lost a few games. Weren't they one of the contenders that we'd never be able to beat because of our flawed bench?

[guava_wrench]

I thought it interesting that Wyc said that he thought the fan based was more connected to this team, that they liked last year's team but loved this one. I've been saying a similar thing for the last 3 weeks or so. Also, as much as it sounded as if Wyc was throwing Danny under the bus, he did go on to say that 2 years yes, 4 years no for Posey which lead me to believe that the decision wasn't completely Danny's.

It sounds to me like he agrees with the decision, not because he isn't willing to spend, but because they seemed to feel it just wasn't a prudent move.

Time will tell. If we get someone good this season and KG is healthy the entire season, than Posey might not have been a big deal.

[BballTim]

And if we're probably only adding a couple of veteran rotation guys this offseason, being #2 on a list of 3-4 isn't exactly earth shattering.

See, it's arguments like this that unfortunately lead me to discount your posts over time.  You will defend Ainge and Ainge's decision making to any extent necessary.

Why is it so hard to admit that not signing another small forward was a mistake, or that we need to bolster the position before next season?  I mean, Doc can admit it, 99% of this blog admits it, and I'm sure both Wyc and Danny would admit it, if they were being candid.  However, you still seem to suggest that Danny's offseason was without error.

  I've admitted that our bench wasn't that great last year. I've stated that I'd like to see a better bench next year. But I don't let that view dominate my perspective to the point that I can't have discussions about the team that don't begin and end with "Danny's poor choices ruined our bench last year". Consider the current discussion. You refuse to admit that KG being healthy could have meant that Paul and Ray would play fewer minutes because "It still wouldn't have made up for the fact that there was only one small forward on the roster". Does the fact that TA did nothing in the playoffs invalidate the argument that a healthy KG would have made the Bulls series much shorter? Does the fact that Danny signed TA instead of Quinton Ross mean that Doc couldn't have gotten more minutes from House/Marbury/RAllen/KG/Perk than he did from  House/Marbury/RAllen/Davis/Perk? The problem is, in your eyes, the only reason that anyone would make those arguments is because they're Ainge apologists who will "defend Ainge and Ainge's decision making to any extent necessary".

[BballTim]

I thought it interesting that Wyc said that he thought the fan based was more connected to this team, that they liked last year's team but loved this one. I've been saying a similar thing for the last 3 weeks or so. Also, as much as it sounded as if Wyc was throwing Danny under the bus, he did go on to say that 2 years yes, 4 years no for Posey which lead me to believe that the decision wasn't completely Danny's.

  When the Celts lost in '87 after fighting through all those injuries there were many calls for a parade/rally just like they'd been having for winning titles. As for Posey, I think it's a little complicated for that type of format (talk show). Danny never said that he wanted to pay Posey a 4th year and was turned down by the owners (not that he'd say that). Would Wyc have let him give Posey 4 years? probably. But that money would have come out of his available budget for those years.

[Roy Hobbs]

The problem is, in your eyes, the only reason that anyone would make those arguments is because they're Ainge apologists who will "defend Ainge and Ainge's decision making to any extent necessary".

No.  However, certain posters -- and you're among them -- have *never* criticized any decision by Ainge, and routinely go out of their way -- often using twisted logic -- to defend him.  Sometimes, the obvious answer is the correct answer:  Danny left this team short-handed.

Did KG's injury hurt this team?  Of course it did.  However, so did a lack of a small forward.  Even prior to KG's injury, Paul was playing more minutes than they did last year.  This, coming off a very short off-season.  Fatigue was going to be a factor, with or without KG.

Also, the reason I don't engage in the debate of whether having KG would have made the Chicago or Orlando series shorter is because it's impossible for anybody to know.  Last season, we went 14 games with Atlanta and Cleveland with a fully healthy KG.  There's no guarantee that he would have made the difference that we all expect he would.  Also, of course, even if we'd gotten by Orlando, would a healthy KG have been enough to rejuvenate Pierce for an additional 8 to 14 games in the next two series?  I find it doubtful.

There's a reason that teams add bench depth.  If teams could get by with a 6 or 7 man rotation, they'd do it regularly.  Unfortunately, it's just not a realistic possibility.  Danny didn't do his job as well as he could have.  He made a terrible miscalculation in believing that Tony Allen could fill the role of James Posey.  That was a mistake.  He didn't need to bring back Posey, but he *did* need to fill the 3 hole with a competent basketball player.

[BballTim]

The problem is, in your eyes, the only reason that anyone would make those arguments is because they're Ainge apologists who will "defend Ainge and Ainge's decision making to any extent necessary".

No.  However, certain posters -- and you're among them -- have *never* criticized any decision by Ainge, and routinely go out of their way -- often using twisted logic -- to defend him. 

  Sure. Just like some posters who frequently criticized Ainge before he traded for KG are loathe to give him credit for anything he's done since and try to exaggerate any possible misstep he's made since.

Did KG's injury hurt this team?  Of course it did.  However, so did a lack of a small forward.  Even prior to KG's injury, Paul was playing more minutes than they did last year.  This, coming off a very short off-season.  Fatigue was going to be a factor, with or without KG.

  How many more minutes do you think Paul was playing before KG got injured? Without doing all the math it looks like he was playing over a minute less than he had over the same period in 07-08. The fact of the matter is that Paul was playing the same if not less than the year before until the injuries hit. I guess this must be the kind of "twisted logic" that I employ from time to time.

Also, the reason I don't engage in the debate of whether having KG would have made the Chicago or Orlando series shorter is because it's impossible for anybody to know.

  Ah. So when you said "a healthy KG wouldn't have helped much with Pierce's and Ray's fatigue", shouldn't that have read "it's impossible for anybody to know whether a healthy KG would have helped much with Pierce's and Ray's fatigue"?

There's a reason that teams add bench depth.  If teams could get by with a 6 or 7 man rotation, they'd do it regularly.  Unfortunately, it's just not a realistic possibility.  Danny didn't do his job as well as he could have.  He made a terrible miscalculation in believing that Tony Allen could fill the role of James Posey.  That was a mistake.  He didn't need to bring back Posey, but he *did* need to fill the 3 hole with a competent basketball player.

  No, he didn't do his job as well as he could have. But was signing TA over players like Quinton Ross a "terrible miscalculation"? I'm not so sure. Again, unless he wanted to (over)spend $20M+ on a backup sf I think that any upgrade over TA would have been marginal. Kind of ironic that we're arguing about the importance of signing Jones or Ross over TA when you aren't even sure that giving Scal and Moore and a lot of Baby's minutes to KG would have had a positive impact in the playoffs.

[Roy Hobbs]

 

No.  However, certain posters -- and you're among them -- have *never* criticized any decision by Ainge, and routinely go out of their way -- often using twisted logic -- to defend him. 

  Sure. Just like some posters who frequently criticized Ainge before he traded for KG are loathe to give him credit for anything he's done since and try to exaggerate any possible misstep he's made since.

I don't know the posting history of all of those criticizing Ainge currently, so I can't speak for them.  As for me, I've spent literally years on this blog defending Ainge.  Last year was the first time when I thought that Danny's moves were indefensible.  I've got no problem with losing Posey.  I have a huge problem with losing Posey (and Brown), and not adding any other upgrades.  It was disappointing to see the team follow up a championship season with an atrocious off-season.

No, he didn't do his job as well as he could have.

That's pretty much all I was looking for.  From my perspective, we should all admit the reality of last off-season, and learn from it what lessons we can.  One of those lessons is that Doc needs veteran players that he can rely upon.

[Who]

KG would have made a massive difference to Paul's and Ray's minutes.

Instead of having a bunch of close games, the C's would have had big leads and been able to play the bench more minutes. Not only would they need to play less minutes, but Garnett also would have lessened the load Paul+Ray had to carry during their time on the court, so it's less minutes and less burden on them during the minutes they would have played.

A healthy Kevin Garnett would have made a massive difference to their health/fatigue.

[nickagneta]

I thought it interesting that Wyc said that he thought the fan based was more connected to this team, that they liked last year's team but loved this one. I've been saying a similar thing for the last 3 weeks or so. Also, as much as it sounded as if Wyc was throwing Danny under the bus, he did go on to say that 2 years yes, 4 years no for Posey which lead me to believe that the decision wasn't completely Danny's.

It sounds to me like he agrees with the decision, not because he isn't willing to spend, but because they seemed to feel it just wasn't a prudent move.

Time will tell. If we get someone good this season and KG is healthy the entire season, than Posey might not have been a big deal.

That could well be the case and I wouldn't doubt if it was. But there was something about the way Felger was asking him about whether it was worth the dead money on the end being worth the championship on the front end and Wyc completely avoiding the question which lead me to believe that maybe Wyc isn't completely being 100% candid about who made 100% of the decision.

[nickagneta]

Another thing that bugged me about the interview was Wyc dismissive way of answering whether he'd still be interested in spending over the luxury tax. He seemed kind of, I don't know, angry, about the way he said (I'm paraphrasing) "I've been in the luxury tax since I got here, we're still in it, don't worry about it."

Being $5 million over the luxury tax and being $20-$25 million over the tax amount is a huge difference about where one is willing to go to win. He obviously knew a follow up of that kind was forthcoming and headed it off at the pass. Come on Wyc, everyone knows you're already over the tax number. How much more are you willing to spend? That's what we really want to know.

[Michael Anthony]

On the topic of Posey and a competent backup small forward, I write it off to a combination of two factors - niether of which has anything to do with future flexibility.

Posey had a history of coming into camp out of shape - Pat Riley critiscized him for this in Miami, and we heard siilar stories out of New Orleans this year. There was a real risk that a rich, long term deal would impact his future performance.

Ainge was a victim of his own draft success. In four consecutive drafts, Danny picked someone after 20 that came in and contributed immediately - West & Allen in 2004, Gomes in 2005, Powe in 2006 and Davis in 2007. He had every reason to believe he could secure a 12 minutes per game player with the 30th pick last season - and may have with Bill Walker.

[Chris]

On the topic of Posey and a competent backup small forward, I write it off to a combination of two factors - niether of which has anything to do with future flexibility.

Posey had a history of coming into camp out of shape - Pat Riley critiscized him for this in Miami, and we heard siilar stories out of New Orleans this year. There was a real risk that a rich, long term deal would impact his future performance.

Ainge was a victim of his own draft success. In four consecutive drafts, Danny picked someone after 20 that came in and contributed immediately - West & Allen in 2004, Gomes in 2005, Powe in 2006 and Davis in 2007. He had every reason to believe he could secure a 12 minutes per game player with the 30th pick last season - and may have with Bill Walker.

I agree that the first reason probably had something to do with it, but not the second reason.  I don't think Danny was relying on draft picks to do anything last year.

More than anything though, I think Danny was looking at the fact that James Posey would be 35 in 2012, and he didn't think he would be worth the $7 million he would be on the books for at that point, especially the C's would be looking for some cap flexibility at that point.