How can the Celtics improve - we have no one to trade and no cap space?

[Gunner]

Who can the Celtics trade to make all these great improvements?

We don't have any "extra" talent that might be attractive for a trading partner.

We have limited depth because all of our money is tied up in the Big 3.

If we trade the Big 3 or Rondo/Perk we are breaking up the team.

We are going to lose Davis because we can't afford him. [He will be paid more the the 2 million people hope to pay.]

Powe is out until the 2010 all star break recovering from surgury if we resign him.

Our needs include more depth up front with Davis gone and Powe out and Moore gone.

A back up SF since we never replaced Posey.

A back up PG since Marbury didn't do it, and

A back up SG since House has a player option and could leave. His shooting might attract more money from someone.

So our roster is:

KG
Pierce
Ray
Rondo
Perk

Davis - gone. He leaves as free agent.
Powe - out until allstar break in 2010.
House - has player option so maybe not back.
Scal - how much is he worth in the trade market?
Marbury - not resigned by Celtics
Giddens - has no trade value.
Pruitt - has no trade value.
Moore - not resigned
Walker has no trade value.

So who do we trade to improve?

We have not cap space and nothing to trade unless we break up the team.

Since we are no longer the "first destination" for veterans who will play cheap to win [as we were in 2008], we have no bench and we can't acquire one.

We have no cap space and no one to trade that "OTHER TEAMS WOULD WANT".

Where do we go from here?

[WedmanIsMyHero]

We thank our lucky stars the Celtics won a title last year.  It was totally worth it.  Next year is probably the last shot for this core and it will be followed by a few lean years.  And we will find out if Ainge just got lucky with the KG trade or if he can really build the team. . . .

[Donoghus]

Biggest way to improve is to field a healthy squad next season and make some adjustments to the bench.  When healthy, the starting five is championship caliber, however, we need to improve the bench at a few spots.

[crownsy]

Who can the Celtics trade to make all these great improvements?

We don't have any "extra" talent that might be attractive for a trading partner.

We have limited depth because all of our money is tied up in the Big 3.

If we trade the Big 3 or Rondo/Perk we are breaking up the team.

We are going to lose Davis because we can't afford him. [He will be paid more the the 2 million people hope to pay.]

Powe is out until the 2010 all star break recovering from surgury if we resign him.

Our needs include more depth up front with Davis gone and Powe out and Moore gone.

A back up SF since we never replaced Posey.

A back up PG since Marbury didn't do it, and

A back up SG since House has a player option and could leave. His shooting might attract more money from someone.

So our roster is:

KG
Pierce
Ray
Rondo
Perk

Davis - gone. He leaves as free agent.
Powe - out until allstar break in 2010.
House - has player option so maybe not back.
Scal - how much is he worth in the trade market?
Marbury - not resigned by Celtics
Giddens - has no trade value.
Pruitt - has no trade value.
Moore - not resigned
Walker has no trade value.

So who do we trade to improve?

We have not cap space and nothing to trade unless we break up the team.

Since we are no longer the "first destination" for veterans who will play cheap to win [as we were in 2008], we have no bench and we can't acquire one.

We have no cap space and no one to trade that "OTHER TEAMS WOULD WANT".

Where do we go from here?

We have the MLE and LLE, same as every other team, so we have every ability to add two pieces to the bench.

In addition, we have up to 28 million dollars of expiring contracts that square up nicely with 2010 and the lebron and friends sweepstakes up for possible trade, which teams who hope to join that lottery of free agents would like.

[Roy Hobbs]

We sign players with the MLE (around $5.5 million) and LLE (around $2.0 million), as well as to minimum salary deals.  It's the exact same boat every other contender finds itself in this off-season.  The Celtics have some expiring deals, so they may be able to work themselves into trades where other teams are looking for cap space.

I don't see much reason for gloom and doom.  The Celtics are a legit title contender, and are no worse off than any other team.

[nickagneta]

Don't forget that the Celtics can force a sign and trade with whomever signs Baby to a contract. If another team attempts to sign him the C's can just say they are going to match unless the other team does the sign and trade.

Also, Ray, IMO, will be shopped but it's going to have to take a heck of a deal bringing in some excellent talent in 2-3 positions for it to work.

I still feel pretty confident that even if all the starters return and we bring back Eddie, Baby and Leon that just signing a couple of productive cheap vets will still be eough for this team to wn it all if they stay healthy. Hill, McDyess, Joe Smith, Matt Barnes and Dahntay Jones are all guys that could come fairly cheap and be signed to fill the positions we will have open.

[Gunner]

MLE and LLE will get you 2 or 3 players. [depends if you use MLE on one player or two.]

We have many more needs than that.

Davis must be replaced.

Powe must be replaced.

We still have no back up SF. [We need someone like a Posey or Pietris who can guard lebron if we want to win another championship.]

House might be leaving. He has a player option and showed he can shoot. He might warrant a full MLE from someone.

Marbury and Moore must also be replaced.

As for 2010 we will have NO cap space available.

Even with the $24 million expiring, we are still committed to almost $45 million, the cap is now $57 million and likely to go DOWN.

But we either need to sign Davis and Powe or replace them.
[Last year they cost us less than $2 million. Davis alone will cost at least $5 million if we try to keep him or we must replace him. (Powe would have cost a similar amount but he is now injured and not due back till the allstar break 2010, maybe no help to us next year.)]

Rondo is an restricted free agent in the summer of 2010. Someone will offer him a Max contract. In 2010 thats about $15 million with his service time.

Any guys we sign with MLE and LLE will want more than a one year deal. So add $8 million to 2010

So $12 million of supposed cap space is really $15 million over the cap.

POOF! there goes the available money and we are over the salary cap again.



As for sign and trade for Davis, I think you are incorrect. I believe the Celtics gave up their rights to both Davis and Powe. They are now unrestricted free agents not restricted free agents.

[Who]

Primary Backup Point Guard -- Eddie House
Third Sting Point Guard -- Gabe Pruitt
Primary Backup Wing -- LLE (Hill, Parker or Bogans)
Secondary Backup Wing -- Minimum Contract (Ross, Udoka, Herrmann, Carney, Rush, Mason)
First Big Off The Bench -- MLE (Zaza or Dice)
Second Big Off The Bench -- Minimum Contract (Powell)
Fifth Big In The Rotation -- Brian Scalabrine
Sixth Big In the Rotation -- Leon Powe

Then two roster spots for prospects like Giddens and Walker.

The Celtics have a very good chance of building an excellent bench, not just good but excellent, by using -- the MLE, LLE, and some minimum contracts.

[lon3lytoaster]

We have plenty of chances to improve, even if we're over the cap we still have exceptions and a good amount of expiring contracts, and we could potentially sign and trade davis for a player's draft rights after the draft, we would have to take on extra salary, but we could potentially get a useful player back, too.

For example, we COULD do this...

Trade for the draft rights to Chase Budinger, after draft sign and trade Davis to New York for Jared Jefferies and Earl Clark's draft rights (Or insert your favorite player in that area of the draft)

Trade Tony Allen and Brian Scalabrine for Barbosa from Phoenix, add Giddens, Pruitt, or Walker if Phoenix wants.

Sign Ron Artest or Shawn Marion for the MLE, and then Mcdyese for the LLE, re-sign Powe to a minimum deal, let Eddie, Mikki, House walk

Rondo/Barbosa/Pruitt
Allen/Barbosa/Budinger
Pierce/Marion/Walker/Clark
Garnett/Marion/Powe/Clark/Jefferies
Perk/Mcdyese/Powe

All of which is probably so unlikely it's not even funny, but I wouldnt be opposed to any of those deals. And then BOOOOOM back to the finals, and on to 18.

[crownsy]

MLE and LLE will get you 2 or 3 players. [depends if you use MLE on one player or two.]

We have many more needs than that.

Davis must be replaced.

Powe must be replaced.

We still have no back up SF. [We need someone like a Posey or Pietris who can guard lebron if we want to win another championship.]

House might be leaving. He has a player option and showed he can shoot. He might warrant a full MLE from someone.

Marbury and Moore must also be replaced.

As for 2010 we will have NO cap space available.

Even with the $24 million expiring, we are still committed to almost $45 million, the cap is now $57 million and likely to go DOWN.

But we either need to sign Davis and Powe or replace them.
[Last year they cost us less than $2 million. Davis alone will cost at least $5 million if we try to keep him or we must replace him. (Powe would have cost a similar amount but he is now injured and not due back till the allstar break 2010, maybe no help to us next year.)]

Rondo is an restricted free agent in the summer of 2010. Someone will offer him a Max contract. In 2010 thats about $15 million with his service time.

Any guys we sign with MLE and LLE will want more than a one year deal. So add $8 million to 2010

So $12 million of supposed cap space is really $15 million over the cap.

POOF! there goes the available money and we are over the salary cap again.



As for sign and trade for Davis, I think you are incorrect. I believe the Celtics gave up their rights to both Davis and Powe. They are now unrestricted free agents not restricted free agents.

why must davis be replaced? he is a restricted FA (you are incorrect, him and powe are both restricted), and we have his bird rights, so any offer we sign him to will not affect the MLE.

marbury and moore are on vet min deals, which you can offer at any time, and they aren't exactly key components of the bench.

who cares what someone offers rondo in 2010, if by some freak accident we don't extend him? we have his bird rights. We can be over the cap and offer him more than any team can.

Not to be harsh, but it seems like you don't really have a grasp of how the salary cap works with regard sto bird rights... alot of the stuff you bring up (davis not being able to be resigned because we are over cap, same with rondo, ect) are not correct.

we have three key needs this offseason. Proven Front court help, a back up SF who plays defense, and a Back up PG who can run the offense.

MLE- PRoven big, preferably sheed, but more likely dice, joe smith, zaza or someone else.

LLE- Vet PG or SF who plays defense

Expiring contracts/vet min deal/trust bill walker- Backup SF or PG

[WedmanIsMyHero]

I think we should be realistic.  The Celtics core is aging and they have probably one year left where they will be a title contender.  I think it is worth rolling the dice to win another title next year, since you do not get the chance to do it every time, but Gunner is making a solid point about the structural issues facing the Celtics.  The Celtics do not have a ton of "upside" players, unless you think Walker and Giddens are really going to develop.  Rondo is developing into one of the top point guards in the league and Perkins will be a solid starting center.  Beyond that, it is not apparent how you come up with the money for post-Big 3 future core.  The Celtics could very easily get caught, 2-3 years from now, in the weak playoff team/low lottery team bind.

As I have argued in other places, I think the Celtics need to give Giddens and Walkers a serious look this year and see if they can be the athletic swing players the Celtics badly need.

[nickagneta]

I say
- release Gabe Pruitt
- give Dahntay Jones the full LLE for 2 years.
- sign Baby for $3.5 year for 3 years
- sign Leon for a two year deal of about $2 million with the second year only partially guaranteed
- Eddie opts to stay
- give Antonio McDyess a two year $5.5 million contract
- sign either Stephon Marbury, Flip Murray or Brevin Knight to a vet minimum for the backup PG job.

Then if by some strange bit of luck we can get someone to take Scal and Tony for a decent bench player we can do that.

[crownsy]

I think we should be realistic.  The Celtics core is aging and they have probably one year left where they will be a title contender.  I think it is worth rolling the dice to win another title next year, since you do not get the chance to do it every time, but Gunner is making a solid point about the structural issues facing the Celtics.  The Celtics do not have a ton of "upside" players, unless you think Walker and Giddens are really going to develop.  Rondo is developing into one of the top point guards in the league and Perkins will be a solid starting center.  Beyond that, it is not apparent how you come up with the money for post-Big 3 future core.  The Celtics could very easily get caught, 2-3 years from now, in the weak playoff team/low lottery team bind.

As I have argued in other places, I think the Celtics need to give Giddens and Walkers a serious look this year and see if they can be the athletic swing players the Celtics badly need.

but, if danny has a thought in his head, they could also have massive cap space to use to build around rondo and perk.

if you let ray expire/trade him/resign him for 2-3 years, and get paul to take a 2-3 year deal, you can easily line it up so that all three core guys come off the books in the same year, when all are about 36-38

Yes, you will probley have a down year in 2011-2012, but after that you come out way under cap (not that, you know, ive done this on draft day basketball because im a text sim dork or anything  )

you then let the big 3 ride off into the sunset and use your massive cap space to attack FA's ( i got melo and amare in the game, but thats only because amare was coming off a down year in the simulator) and i had the 8th pick in the draft because we were a .500 team the year before.

(note: i realize the above is based on a text based GM simulator  game, and unlikely to approach anything like reality. just showing its not really THAT hard to set this up, assuming your not sentimental about the last 2 years of all three guys careers.)

[Donoghus]

I say
- release Gabe Pruitt
- give Dahntay Jones the full LLE for 2 years.
- sign Baby for $3.5 year for 3 years
- sign Leon for a two year deal of about $2 million with the second year only partially guaranteed
- Eddie opts to stay
- give Antonio McDyess a two year $5.5 million contract
- sign either Stephon Marbury, Flip Murray or Brevin Knight to a vet minimum for the backup PG job.

Then if by some strange bit of luck we can get someone to take Scal and Tony for a decent bench player we can do that.

I'm actually a pretty big fan of that particular plan although I think Davis is going to cost more so I'm kind've resigned to seeing him leave but $3.5/year is in the ballpark for what I'd be willing to pay him to stay.

[cordobes]

I say
- release Gabe Pruitt
- give Dahntay Jones the full LLE for 2 years.
- sign Baby for $3.5 year for 3 years
- sign Leon for a two year deal of about $2 million with the second year only partially guaranteed
- Eddie opts to stay
- give Antonio McDyess a two year $5.5 million contract
- sign either Stephon Marbury, Flip Murray or Brevin Knight to a vet minimum for the backup PG job.

Then if by some strange bit of luck we can get someone to take Scal and Tony for a decent bench player we can do that.

I doubt the club can afford to spend that kind of money. It would put the salary roll above $85 millions. If the luxury tax threshold drops to $68 millions, that would mean more than $100 millions in salaries. I don't see that happening.