Taking advantage of Charlotte in a Ray Allen trade

[nickagneta]

I read this a little earlier today from Sam Smith:

Michael Jordan is said to be studying whether to try to buy the Charlotte franchise from Bob Johnson. I wonder if he’d rename them the Mikecats. Anyway, Johnson supposedly wants $300 million to $325 million after paying $300 million. Good luck. Check with Michael Heisley in Memphis. Like properties everywhere, the values have tanked and one analyst who has looked into franchise sales recently said he sees Charlotte worth about $220 million, and that’s assuming you can get financing. If you want Gerald Wallace, I’d say line up. Johnson isn’t going to be able to sell the team. So I’m guessing he’ll likely take the Heisley path—and I can’t really condemn it because you cannot expect anyone to take $20 million to $30 million annual losses—and start shedding his top contracts for expiring deals. I’d guess you probably could get Emeka Okafor, assuming you want that bad contract that goes up to almost $15 million in 2013-14.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_090525.html?rss=true

So it got me thinking that if Charlotte ownership could already be losing over $100 million in lost asset value on the team and if selling and relocating doesn't look like likely options because selling would compound the yearly losses of $20+ million he has had recently with another $100 million loss and this is the NBA's 2nd attempt in Charlotte and they may not let him move right away, could their suddenly become a huge fire sale for Charlotte's long term contracts.

My one constant about trading Ray Allen has been that we might be best moving him if we can get a quality replacement and fill holes with quality players long term. Well, if Hornets ownership decides cutting massive amounts of payroll quickly is the only way of possibly being able to break even and weather the bad economic times until things turn around and he can recoup his losses in a sale of over $300 million, we might be able to take those contracts off his hands.

So here is my Ray Trade trying to alleviate Charlotte of their bad contracts while improving the Celtics.

To Charlotte:

Ray Allen
Brian Scalabrine
Tony Allen

To Boston:

Emeka Okafor
Gerald Wallace
Raja Bell

Yes we are talking 3 of their starters for one HOF starter, a scrub and an okay backup, but Charlotte would be dumping over $80 million in salary in this deal.

$80 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many teams out there are going to be able to take on $80 million in salary?

But it fills holes for the Celtics long term that could keep them title contenders for another 5-6 years. Here would be the team before adding anything else:

PG: Rondo/House/Pruitt
SG: Bell/Wallace/House/Giddens
SF: Pierce/Wallace/Walker
PF: KG/Okafor
C: Perk/Okafor

If the C's then sign Leon(minimum), Joe Smith(minimum), Baby($3-4 million per for 4 years) and say Flip Murray or Stephon Marbury or Brevin Knight(all at minimums), they would then have a team salary of about $79 million, less if they bought out Pruitt. They would also have a team that would be virtually intact for 4-5 years with Pierce and KG eventually taking pay cuts and going to the bench in favor of Wallace and Okafor starting while at the same time keeping payroll about the same because after next year House, Bell, and the minimums would expire making money available for Rondo's extension and some other minimum additions and the year thereafter Pierce is renegotiated opening up millions for Perks extension and other free agents. This could keep the C's payroll at about + or - $80 million for several years while keeping a core of Perk, Rondo, Baby, Wallace, Okafor, Pierce and KG. That's a [dang] good core.

Also, a positive for Charlotte is they get back a superstar for a year that there could average close to 25 PPG and they get a Tony Allen that if they gave 25-30 MPG to would be able to produce for them. They would then get his Bird rights and be able to negotiate a good deal with him for the future taking over the SG starting spot.

Yes, it makes the Bobcats a train wreck on the court after they made decent strides this year. Bu they would still have

Diop
Diaw
Nazi
Vlad Rad
Ray
Tony
Scal
Felton
Ajinca
Augustin
May
and the 12th pick this year(Budinger, Ellington, Earl Clark or BJ MUllens) and an almost guaranteed top 6 pick the year after while dumping $80 million in long term money.

[Tnerb02]

Great minds think alike. I posted a very similar trade in November. This is one of the few Ray Ray trades that I would pull the trigger on.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=23835.msg383576#msg383576

[celticmaestro]

Oh God, poor Ray if we did that. Could he be in a worse situation? As far as Ray Allen trades go though, this is the best one I've seen in terms of realism.

[thebirdman]

And CHA could buy out Ray and he would resign here...

If we could afford this trade I would love it...

[Fafnir]

I don't think that Charlotte would do this trade. But it is definitely a Ray Allen trade I'd pull the trigger on.

[ssspence]

I don't think that Charlotte would do this trade. But it is definitely a Ray Allen trade I'd pull the trigger on.

Before they could do this, Pierce would need to agree to 'opt out' of his deal next summer in order to sign one for significantly less over a fair number of years. Otheriwse this starts to get trick for the ownership group. PP's gotta get on board with what it would bring to the table.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

Thats hilarious that you think Okafor would accept a backup role. Then you get Raja Bell whose the poorest or a poor man's Ray Allen and Gerald Wallace who can't hit a jumper from outside of 5 feet who also would not accept a backup role. Do you feel comfortable w/ Raja Bell taking last second shots when Pierce gets double teamed? Gimme a break with this stuff, just because a trade works on some online trade simulator doesn't mean it works in real life.

[JSD]

I don't like this trade. The Celtics with the MLE and expiring contracts of Scal, TA and House are in a good position to keep Ray and add serious talent to this team without over extending themselves to questionable players with long term contracts:

Okafor - Is overpaid and has a long term contract.

Wallace - Is expensive and concussion away from being out of the league.

Raja Bell - a nice player and has decent value but not a starter on a championship team.

[guava_wrench]

I read this a little earlier today from Sam Smith:

Michael Jordan is said to be studying whether to try to buy the Charlotte franchise from Bob Johnson. I wonder if he’d rename them the Mikecats. Anyway, Johnson supposedly wants $300 million to $325 million after paying $300 million. Good luck. Check with Michael Heisley in Memphis. Like properties everywhere, the values have tanked and one analyst who has looked into franchise sales recently said he sees Charlotte worth about $220 million, and that’s assuming you can get financing. If you want Gerald Wallace, I’d say line up. Johnson isn’t going to be able to sell the team. So I’m guessing he’ll likely take the Heisley path—and I can’t really condemn it because you cannot expect anyone to take $20 million to $30 million annual losses—and start shedding his top contracts for expiring deals. I’d guess you probably could get Emeka Okafor, assuming you want that bad contract that goes up to almost $15 million in 2013-14.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_090525.html?rss=true

So it got me thinking that if Charlotte ownership could already be losing over $100 million in lost asset value on the team and if selling and relocating doesn't look like likely options because selling would compound the yearly losses of $20+ million he has had recently with another $100 million loss and this is the NBA's 2nd attempt in Charlotte and they may not let him move right away, could their suddenly become a huge fire sale for Charlotte's long term contracts.

My one constant about trading Ray Allen has been that we might be best moving him if we can get a quality replacement and fill holes with quality players long term. Well, if Hornets ownership decides cutting massive amounts of payroll quickly is the only way of possibly being able to break even and weather the bad economic times until things turn around and he can recoup his losses in a sale of over $300 million, we might be able to take those contracts off his hands.

So here is my Ray Trade trying to alleviate Charlotte of their bad contracts while improving the Celtics.

To Charlotte:

Ray Allen
Brian Scalabrine
Tony Allen

To Boston:

Emeka Okafor
Gerald Wallace
Raja Bell

Yes we are talking 3 of their starters for one HOF starter, a scrub and an okay backup, but Charlotte would be dumping over $80 million in salary in this deal.

$80 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many teams out there are going to be able to take on $80 million in salary?

But it fills holes for the Celtics long term that could keep them title contenders for another 5-6 years. Here would be the team before adding anything else:

PG: Rondo/House/Pruitt
SG: Bell/Wallace/House/Giddens
SF: Pierce/Wallace/Walker
PF: KG/Okafor
C: Perk/Okafor

If the C's then sign Leon(minimum), Joe Smith(minimum), Baby($3-4 million per for 4 years) and say Flip Murray or Stephon Marbury or Brevin Knight(all at minimums), they would then have a team salary of about $79 million, less if they bought out Pruitt. They would also have a team that would be virtually intact for 4-5 years with Pierce and KG eventually taking pay cuts and going to the bench in favor of Wallace and Okafor starting while at the same time keeping payroll about the same because after next year House, Bell, and the minimums would expire making money available for Rondo's extension and some other minimum additions and the year thereafter Pierce is renegotiated opening up millions for Perks extension and other free agents. This could keep the C's payroll at about + or - $80 million for several years while keeping a core of Perk, Rondo, Baby, Wallace, Okafor, Pierce and KG. That's a [dang] good core.

Also, a positive for Charlotte is they get back a superstar for a year that there could average close to 25 PPG and they get a Tony Allen that if they gave 25-30 MPG to would be able to produce for them. They would then get his Bird rights and be able to negotiate a good deal with him for the future taking over the SG starting spot.

Yes, it makes the Bobcats a train wreck on the court after they made decent strides this year. Bu they would still have

Diop
Diaw
Nazi
Vlad Rad
Ray
Tony
Scal
Felton
Ajinca
Augustin
May
and the 12th pick this year(Budinger, Ellington, Earl Clark or BJ MUllens) and an almost guaranteed top 6 pick the year after while dumping $80 million in long term money.

You can't renegotiate contracts in the NBA. The CBA doesn't allow giving up money.

Regarding the person who said Raja Bell isn't a starter on a championship team -- of course he isn't. Neither are Nash, Amare, Marion, and all the other guys he played with in Phx. Yet Oberto is. I wouldn't be so quick to judge whether or not a team can win it all with a particular player starting.

Personally, I am not expecting to see the Celtics take on as much money as some would like. They are not recession-proof.

[ACF]

I read this a little earlier today from Sam Smith:

Michael Jordan is said to be studying whether to try to buy the Charlotte franchise from Bob Johnson. I wonder if he’d rename them the Mikecats. Anyway, Johnson supposedly wants $300 million to $325 million after paying $300 million. Good luck. Check with Michael Heisley in Memphis. Like properties everywhere, the values have tanked and one analyst who has looked into franchise sales recently said he sees Charlotte worth about $220 million, and that’s assuming you can get financing. If you want Gerald Wallace, I’d say line up. Johnson isn’t going to be able to sell the team. So I’m guessing he’ll likely take the Heisley path—and I can’t really condemn it because you cannot expect anyone to take $20 million to $30 million annual losses—and start shedding his top contracts for expiring deals. I’d guess you probably could get Emeka Okafor, assuming you want that bad contract that goes up to almost $15 million in 2013-14.

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_090525.html?rss=true

So it got me thinking that if Charlotte ownership could already be losing over $100 million in lost asset value on the team and if selling and relocating doesn't look like likely options because selling would compound the yearly losses of $20+ million he has had recently with another $100 million loss and this is the NBA's 2nd attempt in Charlotte and they may not let him move right away, could their suddenly become a huge fire sale for Charlotte's long term contracts.

My one constant about trading Ray Allen has been that we might be best moving him if we can get a quality replacement and fill holes with quality players long term. Well, if Hornets ownership decides cutting massive amounts of payroll quickly is the only way of possibly being able to break even and weather the bad economic times until things turn around and he can recoup his losses in a sale of over $300 million, we might be able to take those contracts off his hands.

So here is my Ray Trade trying to alleviate Charlotte of their bad contracts while improving the Celtics.

To Charlotte:

Ray Allen
Brian Scalabrine
Tony Allen

To Boston:

Emeka Okafor
Gerald Wallace
Raja Bell

Yes we are talking 3 of their starters for one HOF starter, a scrub and an okay backup, but Charlotte would be dumping over $80 million in salary in this deal.

$80 million!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many teams out there are going to be able to take on $80 million in salary?

But it fills holes for the Celtics long term that could keep them title contenders for another 5-6 years. Here would be the team before adding anything else:

PG: Rondo/House/Pruitt
SG: Bell/Wallace/House/Giddens
SF: Pierce/Wallace/Walker
PF: KG/Okafor
C: Perk/Okafor

If the C's then sign Leon(minimum), Joe Smith(minimum), Baby($3-4 million per for 4 years) and say Flip Murray or Stephon Marbury or Brevin Knight(all at minimums), they would then have a team salary of about $79 million, less if they bought out Pruitt. They would also have a team that would be virtually intact for 4-5 years with Pierce and KG eventually taking pay cuts and going to the bench in favor of Wallace and Okafor starting while at the same time keeping payroll about the same because after next year House, Bell, and the minimums would expire making money available for Rondo's extension and some other minimum additions and the year thereafter Pierce is renegotiated opening up millions for Perks extension and other free agents. This could keep the C's payroll at about + or - $80 million for several years while keeping a core of Perk, Rondo, Baby, Wallace, Okafor, Pierce and KG. That's a [dang] good core.

Also, a positive for Charlotte is they get back a superstar for a year that there could average close to 25 PPG and they get a Tony Allen that if they gave 25-30 MPG to would be able to produce for them. They would then get his Bird rights and be able to negotiate a good deal with him for the future taking over the SG starting spot.

Yes, it makes the Bobcats a train wreck on the court after they made decent strides this year. Bu they would still have

Diop
Diaw
Nazi
Vlad Rad
Ray
Tony
Scal
Felton
Ajinca
Augustin
May
and the 12th pick this year(Budinger, Ellington, Earl Clark or BJ MUllens) and an almost guaranteed top 6 pick the year after while dumping $80 million in long term money.

The next person that suggests
a Ray Allen trade will be traded
to LakersNation! Period.

I'm sorry, Nick, you're out!

[JSD]

You can't renegotiate contracts in the NBA. The CBA doesn't allow giving up money.

Regarding the person who said Raja Bell isn't a starter on a championship team -- of course he isn't. Neither are Nash, Amare, Marion, and all the other guys he played with in Phx. Yet Oberto is. I wouldn't be so quick to judge whether or not a team can win it all with a particular player starting.

Personally, I am not expecting to see the Celtics take on as much money as some would like. They are not recession-proof.

In terms of "paycuts", I believe Nick was implying that once Paul Pierce and KG expire they will not demand the money they are making now... Not restructuring but indeed taking a paycut.

Raja bell is getting old. He's 34 and has lost a step as a perimeter defender.

[LB3533]

I don't see why people are jumping the gun after our team fought extremely hard through an injury plagued year.

Why trade Ray now?

Give the Big 3 another season to see if they can win another title.

[indeedproceed]

You can't renegotiate contracts in the NBA. The CBA doesn't allow giving up money.

Regarding the person who said Raja Bell isn't a starter on a championship team -- of course he isn't. Neither are Nash, Amare, Marion, and all the other guys he played with in Phx. Yet Oberto is. I wouldn't be so quick to judge whether or not a team can win it all with a particular player starting.

Personally, I am not expecting to see the Celtics take on as much money as some would like. They are not recession-proof.

In terms of "paycuts", I believe Nick was implying that once Paul Pierce and KG expire they will not demand the money they are making now... Not restructuring but indeed taking a paycut.

Raja bell is getting old. He's 34 and has lost a step as a perimeter defender.

They do say the jet's lost a step or twp, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some fireworks here.

[Womialas]

I love this trade if Charlotte is really trying that hard to dump contracts.  In my ideal scenario, though, Pierce moves back to SG with Wallace stepping in at SF.  Also, Okafor starts over Perk if KG is healthy and we get three legit big men.  Bell fills in the defensive stopper role that TA never could.  Celtics would be favorites next year, no question in my mind.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

Oh God, poor Ray if we did that. Could he be in a worse situation? As far as Ray Allen trades go though, this is the best one I've seen in terms of realism.

agreed