Taking advantage of Charlotte in a Ray Allen trade

[dlpin]

If charlotte would be willing to do a trade like that, why would they trade with the celtics, and not with, say, miami, who has a bigger expiring contract AND youngsters and draft picks to send back.

Because if they do this with the celtics, they basically let everyone walk and have to sign veterans to round out the roster and get to the minimum payroll..

[nickagneta]

Thanks Jsaad, that is indeed what I meant. I apologize if I wasn't more clear. I thought people here knew which years Pierce and Garnett expired and therefore would know what I meant by saying "eventually taking a paycut". Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things.

Second, for those jumping on this as a trade that is bad or that Charlotte would never do it, please remember, the number one goal of any business is to make money first and be the best at what they do is secondary. Charlotte could be all but guaranteed of losing another $20 million dollars this year. They may have already lost as much as $40 million over the last few years and could be looking at another $100 million loss if they try to sell the franchise because they can't afford any more huge yearly losses.

This is not high school and college where winning is what is the ultimate goal. NBA basketball is a business and trades and player transactions are not always made predicatated solely upon what is good for the team on the court. This is why I have been proposing Ray Allen trades that look like we are getting way more than we should, because I am concentrating these proposals with teams that could be in serious financial problems and might need to rectify that problem by dumping long term money.

As for Okafor's and Wallace resistance to not starting, they would be playing behind KG and Pierce at their respective positions and they would probably also be told that they would eventually be the starters in future years but for now would have to settle for filling a 20-30 MPG role as a back up. I would envision a four man rotation with Perk, KG, Okafor and Baby with each playing about 20-28 minutes and a three man wing rotation with Pierce, Bell and Wallace each getting about 30 minutes playing either the 2 or the 3. Who starts and who finishes games wouldn't be as important as the limited drop off in quality when we went to the bench.

[nickagneta]

If charlotte would be willing to do a trade like that, why would they trade with the celtics, and not with, say, miami, who has a bigger expiring contract AND youngsters and draft picks to send back.

Because if they do this with the celtics, they basically let everyone walk and have to sign veterans to round out the roster and get to the minimum payroll..

Maybe because teams with larger expiring contracts like Phoenix and Miami wouldn't be willing to take on $80 million of long term contracts.

[dlpin]

If charlotte would be willing to do a trade like that, why would they trade with the celtics, and not with, say, miami, who has a bigger expiring contract AND youngsters and draft picks to send back.

Because if they do this with the celtics, they basically let everyone walk and have to sign veterans to round out the roster and get to the minimum payroll..

Maybe because teams with larger expiring contracts like Phoenix and Miami wouldn't be willing to take on $80 million of long term contracts.

Why? Miami literally has no one signed beyond 2010, just a few team options, and have to try to put an attractive team around wade in hopes of getting him to stay.

What is more, Rafa Bell is an expiring contract, so it wouldnt be that bad, and Okafor and Wallace have decent, non max contracts for a good length. The 80 million is actually spread out over several years.

[Fafnir]

I still think Charlotte doesn't do it. The goal of the an NBA owner is to make money, but to make money you need to build a winner. Trading Okafor/Wallace/Bell for Ray would set back any hope they have of being a winner for a long time. Unless they manage to snag a franchise big in the lottery that they would be resigned too for the next few years.

Like I said I'd do this deal from the C's side. But despite the massive saving that Charlotte would recieve I don't see them agreeing to it.

[nickagneta]

If charlotte would be willing to do a trade like that, why would they trade with the celtics, and not with, say, miami, who has a bigger expiring contract AND youngsters and draft picks to send back.

Because if they do this with the celtics, they basically let everyone walk and have to sign veterans to round out the roster and get to the minimum payroll..

Maybe because teams with larger expiring contracts like Phoenix and Miami wouldn't be willing to take on $80 million of long term contracts.

Why? Miami literally has no one signed beyond 2010, just a few team options, and have to try to put an attractive team around wade in hopes of getting him to stay.

What is more, Rafa Bell is an expiring contract, so it wouldnt be that bad, and Okafor and Wallace have decent, non max contracts for a good length. The 80 million is actually spread out over several years.

Miami also has to re up Wade and has been one of a couple of teams that are going into the 2010 free agency period looking to score two superstars. They would already have Beasley, Wade and Chalmers and who's to say that LeBron or Yao or Amare or Bosh wouldn't sign wfor big money to play in Miami with D Wade, a top 2-3 player in the league that already has a championship pedigree.

My guess is Miami's salary is so low because they would rather surround Wade with other super-duper stars than with below All-Star caliber players like Okafor, Wallace and Bell.

[Brickowski]

You won't get Okafor.  That's a non-starter.  But you might get a nice package featuring Diaw, Bell and Augustin.

I'd take that, basketball-wise. You have your long defender, your backup point and you Ray Allen replacement.  The Celtics throw in Gabe Pruitt to back up Felton for the Bobcats.

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth #20]

"Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things."

Something really stings about a guy talking down to people when he is suggesting a simply horrendous trade. Oh and thanks for explaining how the basketball business works, I didn't realize teams were out to make money 1st, that is some real inside information. Did it ever occur to you that this offseason's goal should be finding better backups for the C's studs? Okafor & Wallace have had extremely serious injures and Raja Bell starting is just a diseaster waiting to happen. People will respect you more if you admit you are wrong. Take a step back and think about who is going to make all the shots Jesus makes, whos going to do it, you tell me cause I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist if you trade Jesus.

[lon3lytoaster]

Hm. Never thought about it this, but we DO have a lot of salary to give up. We could potentially get another 1-3 stars (Or one superstar and and star) if we package Tony, Ray, and Scals.

I wouldn't mind, honestly. I like Ray a lot, but whatever makes us better as a whole. I couldn't pass up our threesom of expirings for Redd and Jefferson from Milwaukee if it was ever offered.

As for this trade, I don't know. I like Wallace, but probably the best and most valuabe player we would get back is Okafor, and he'd have to come off the bench because obviously no one starts of KG if he's healthy, and I think Perk is just a better fit, and probably even a better defensive player.

[dlpin]

If charlotte would be willing to do a trade like that, why would they trade with the celtics, and not with, say, miami, who has a bigger expiring contract AND youngsters and draft picks to send back.

Because if they do this with the celtics, they basically let everyone walk and have to sign veterans to round out the roster and get to the minimum payroll..

Maybe because teams with larger expiring contracts like Phoenix and Miami wouldn't be willing to take on $80 million of long term contracts.

Why? Miami literally has no one signed beyond 2010, just a few team options, and have to try to put an attractive team around wade in hopes of getting him to stay.

What is more, Rafa Bell is an expiring contract, so it wouldnt be that bad, and Okafor and Wallace have decent, non max contracts for a good length. The 80 million is actually spread out over several years.

Miami also has to re up Wade and has been one of a couple of teams that are going into the 2010 free agency period looking to score two superstars. They would already have Beasley, Wade and Chalmers and who's to say that LeBron or Yao or Amare or Bosh wouldn't sign wfor big money to play in Miami with D Wade, a top 2-3 player in the league that already has a championship pedigree.

My guess is Miami's salary is so low because they would rather surround Wade with other super-duper stars than with below All-Star caliber players like Okafor, Wallace and Bell.

Miami can opt out of beasley's and chalmer's contracts, so again, they have literally no one with guaranteed money for after next season. Even if the cap is lower than it is now, Miami would still have enough to sign wade to a max deal, have okafor and wallace on the books, and still have enough left over to sign another player to a max deal.
Besides, in a world where the max is the max, it would be in their interests to put a better team around wade now.

[nickagneta]

"Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things."

Something really stings about a guy talking down to people when he is suggesting a simply horrendous trade. Oh and thanks for explaining how the basketball business works, I didn't realize teams were out to make money 1st, that is some real inside information. Did it ever occur to you that this offseason's goal should be finding better backups for the C's studs? Okafor & Wallace have had extremely serious injures and Raja Bell starting is just a diseaster waiting to happen. People will respect you more if you admit you are wrong. Take a step back and think about who is going to make all the shots Jesus makes, whos going to do it, you tell me cause I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist if you trade Jesus.

Wow, I guess someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I wasn't talking down to anyone. I was being apologetic for not being more clear. Here is what I said:

I apologize if I wasn't more clear. I thought people here knew which years Pierce and Garnett expired and therefore would know what I meant by saying "eventually taking a paycut". Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things.

Guava wrench is the person I was saying this too and I have no reason to talk down to him. He's a very knowledgeable guy and I was just stating that I thought everyone knew that not only I was aware of Paul's and KG's contractual status but that they did too.

My stating that basketball was a business and that owners want to make money was again me stating the obvious so that there was no confusion of my point and so that I wouldn't need to state this reasoning later. I wasn't being condescending.

As for adding backups to our studs, that's what this trade accomplishes. We add quality backups to studs Rondo, KG, Perk and Paul while keeping our budget at around $80 million. Wyc has already sated publicly that there is a max in salary that can be spent. Keeping the current team and just adding free agents will skyrocket our salary if we were to get backups of the quality of Okafor and Wallace.

As for who takes the shots that Ray does, well we were able to figure out a way for people to take the shots that KG would normally take for the last half of this year. I'm sure with a base of Rondo, Bell, Pierce, KG, Perk, Okafor, Baby, Eddie and Wallace that Doc and the team would figure out which of those players would be making up Ray's shos.

[ACF]

"Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things."

Something really stings about a guy talking down to people when he is suggesting a simply horrendous trade. Oh and thanks for explaining how the basketball business works, I didn't realize teams were out to make money 1st, that is some real inside information. Did it ever occur to you that this offseason's goal should be finding better backups for the C's studs? Okafor & Wallace have had extremely serious injures and Raja Bell starting is just a diseaster waiting to happen. People will respect you more if you admit you are wrong. Take a step back and think about who is going to make all the shots Jesus makes, whos going to do it, you tell me cause I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist if you trade Jesus.

Do you have any posts where
you bring a positive attitude?
Geez...

[Fafnir]

"Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things."

Something really stings about a guy talking down to people when he is suggesting a simply horrendous trade. Oh and thanks for explaining how the basketball business works, I didn't realize teams were out to make money 1st, that is some real inside information. Did it ever occur to you that this offseason's goal should be finding better backups for the C's studs? Okafor & Wallace have had extremely serious injures and Raja Bell starting is just a diseaster waiting to happen. People will respect you more if you admit you are wrong. Take a step back and think about who is going to make all the shots Jesus makes, whos going to do it, you tell me cause I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist if you trade Jesus.

Do you have any posts where
you bring a positive attitude?
Geez...

Don't listen to them, let the hate flow through you. It will make you stronger....

[KCattheStripe]

"Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things."

Something really stings about a guy talking down to people when he is suggesting a simply horrendous trade. Oh and thanks for explaining how the basketball business works, I didn't realize teams were out to make money 1st, that is some real inside information. Did it ever occur to you that this offseason's goal should be finding better backups for the C's studs? Okafor & Wallace have had extremely serious injures and Raja Bell starting is just a diseaster waiting to happen. People will respect you more if you admit you are wrong. Take a step back and think about who is going to make all the shots Jesus makes, whos going to do it, you tell me cause I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist if you trade Jesus.

Do you have any posts where
you bring a positive attitude?
Geez...

I love everyone, everyone is awesome!

[KCattheStripe]

"Next time I guess I won't assume everyone is aware of such things."

Something really stings about a guy talking down to people when he is suggesting a simply horrendous trade. Oh and thanks for explaining how the basketball business works, I didn't realize teams were out to make money 1st, that is some real inside information. Did it ever occur to you that this offseason's goal should be finding better backups for the C's studs? Okafor & Wallace have had extremely serious injures and Raja Bell starting is just a diseaster waiting to happen. People will respect you more if you admit you are wrong. Take a step back and think about who is going to make all the shots Jesus makes, whos going to do it, you tell me cause I'm pretty sure that person doesn't exist if you trade Jesus.

Do you have any posts where
you bring a positive attitude?
Geez...

Don't listen to them, let the hate flow through you. It will make you stronger....

Fear leads to anger... anger leads to hate... hate leads to SUFFERING!