Yes, it's a post about trades involving Ray Allen.
I am an intelligent person, and I have no problem disagreeing with people with whom I discuss basketball. It is fun to gain other people's perspective and hear alternative options. I also have a thick skin, so if you feel like responding with posts implying just where I can stick it or the magnitude of my stupidity, you're wasting your time. If you care to comment on any of the ideas below, please do so with respect and understanding that I love the Celtics, and I appreciate what each member of the 12 man roster did in winning banner 17, and I want every player in green to succeed. And that discussing trades is part of sports, and sports should be fun.
I know a lot of people get upset at trade ideas around here. First, I don't understand why trade discussions are so irksome to some people. As far as I know, those participating in such discussions are powerless to actually make such trades. Second, such discussions are very enjoyable to some. And third, the reality is that trades (sometimes big ones) do happen in the NBA; I'm not sure why such topics shouldn't be bandied about. For example, a few years ago, right after losing in the Finals, the Lakers made a painful choice in trading Shaq, sacrificing a couple championship runs in the next 2 years. Yet in so doing were able to spend only one season out of the playoffs before returning to playoff basketball and setting themselves up for championship contention for several more seasons.
My point of all this is that at some point, our trio (aged 33, 32, 31) will not be enough to get to the finals. In fact, considering the ascension and inevitable continued rise of Lebron, that may already be here. We will never have a single player that can take Lebron wire to wire, so any chance of beating the Cavs in the playoffs depends on depth and superior teamwork. When the real slippage begins, the question is: should we try to patch a sinking ship with small pieces? Or do you try to sell off a large chunk of the ship and try to transition to a younger, deeper squad?
Ray is the most likely to be dealt as his deal will be expiring, he is the oldest, Pierce is a lifelong Celtic, and KG's skills are rarer and more important.
I came up with these ideas with the following assumptions in mind:
-Wyc & co. don't mind having a similar payrole to the past 2 years as long as the team is competitive.
-Teams with less solid fan bases may be feeling some financial crush
-The league has a history of unpredictable trades or trades made with questionable motives
-That much perception of players on the Celtics and around the league is a creation of convenient media story lines. Just remember that Pierce, Allen, and KG were all in the same group of "great players who aren't winners" along with T-Mac, Carter, Iverson, etc. (as an aside, it's funny how Nash and Kidd have avoided that label...but that's another issue).
-Most importantly, that the Celtics don't have a realistic shot at making a free agent splash for several years, until the 2012 offseason or so. Many people don't understand that even if Ray walks away at the end of next season, the Celtics are still over the cap and will only have the MLE to spend. If he re-signs at a discount, still only the MLE to spend. Let's say in two seasons, Pierce and Allen have both re-signed for less (say 8-10 per year), as long as we've extended Rondo and Perk and still have KG on the books and have more than 5 players on the roster, still not enough to add a big free agent. So for the next 3 offseasons (by the time our Big 3 are 37, 36, and 35), literally the only way to add good players is either by sucking and getting a good draft pick, somehow trading for a pick that turns into a lottery pick, lucking into a gasol-type salary dump this offseason using our 6 expiring deals in a package, or by trading players like Ray at high value before a decline in value/skills. I think that the "financial flexibility" of the Celtics in coming years is referring either to 2013 or a willingness to use the consecutive expiring contracts of Ray, PP, KG as they come up in trades.
-knowing that Ainge has said he'd've traded one of the original Big 3 before their skills left.
WIth that said, some potential "trade Ray Allen" ideas that may at least generate chatter for both sides.
1. Philadelphia
Allen for Dalembert, Williams, Young
Phil-
With Sammy D off the books they can justify extending Andre Miller, helping gear up for a playoff run with a healthy Brand. Clears room for Speights and adds a shooter scorer at the wings alongside Iguodala.
Bos-
Depth and athleticism. Dalembert adds a lot of speed, size and rebounding off the bench. Williams is a very quick scorer, and Young is a very young and athletic SF who is rapidly learning how to shoot from deep.
2. Dallas:
Ray for Howard and Terry
Dal-
Never know when Cuban will shake things up. Gives them excellent outside shooting to complement Kidd, assuming they extend him at a reduced rate. Saves them a bunch of long-term money.
Bos-
Get a defender/athlete in Howard and Bench scoring/backup point that can handle the ball.
3. Clippers
Ray for Randolph and Gordon
LAC-
Most people consider Randolph untouchable, and LAC is about to commit to Griffin at PF. They'd love to dump him. Allen may be an initial upgrade over Gordon, and they have a lot committed to Davis to try to make the playoffs sooner rather than later.
Bos-
Big question mark. But with Marbury probably not coming back, we need a reputed headcase, right? Additionally, despite his shortcomings, Randolph always brings post scoring and size. He'd relieve the offensive burden from KG, allowing him to move further away from the basket (saving wear and tear) and allowing him to focus on defense to make up for Randolph's problems there. Gordon looks to be a solid player in the making, and, paired with Rondo, would help pave the way into the future.
4. New Jersey
Ray and Scal for Carter, Najera, Lopez
NJ-
Who knows what they're doing. But they have quite a few big guys up front and this would give them a boatload of cash to go after 2010 free agents as well as potentially a more media friendly swap in terms of Carter for Allen. This was much more intriguing when a move to brookly was imminent; will they still make a 2010 free agent splash?
Bos-
I believe that Carter is in the same class as Ray and Pierce were 2 years ago. He's a very good shooter and still a very good athlete; how would he do on a great team? I think he'd surprise a lot of naysayers. Obviously Lopez would be great on this team; he'd probably be the reason NJ says no, but on the other hand I don't think i'd do Ray for Carter and Boone from the C's perspective.
5. Phoenix
a. Ray and Giddens for Amare and Barbosa
b. Ray and Pruitt for Amare and Barbosa
PHO-
We know phoenix wants to dump salary, and word was they'd be willing to move Amare to do so. The above trades allow Phoenix to save 5 million right away and then be 24 million under their projected budget going into the 2010 offseason. They then surround Shaq and Nash with shooters: Richardson, Barnes, and Allen, to stay competitive.
Bos-
Barbosa can do a lot of the things that Ray can and is cheaper and only 26. Amare would add a new dimension alongside KG on offense, and KG can help cover his defense. He could also help ease the minutes on KG by playing alongside Perk. Perk/KG/Amare would be a great PF/C rotation.
c. Ray, Scal, Tony for Amare and Richardson
PHO-
Same as above, but they save about 5-6 mil right away and 30 million the next year. They go small (except for Shaq), still surrounding Shaq and Nash with shooters.
Bos-
Same as above. More financial obligation; Richardson might be a better overall player but is older.
6. Golden State (the Holy Grail of "Ray Allen 2 for 1 possibilities")
The following ideas are contingent upon a. Nelly's upredictability; b. Nelly's dislike of youth; c. Nelly feeling like he can address a need with the 7th pick; d. Golden State making decisions based on financial info as well as basketball info; e. Nelly's well-documented ability to make and keep odd grudges.
a. Ray for Biedrins and either Ellis, Jackson Maggette, or Crawford.
GS-
I think Biedrins is a great basketball player. Great rebounder, good defender, good finisher at the basket. Nelly doesn't play him as much as he should. He also must look at how Denver gave away Camby (similar player to Biedrins), started Nene at Center, ran the bejesus out of the ball and had their best season and just be jealous. Say he trades Biedrins and Ellis. He could start Turiaf at center, one of his pups at PF, draft Jennings, and throw stephen Jackson and Maggette out there and still have Crawford off the bench. Question is, would he trade Biedrins? If so, who is more likely to be traded? Obviously, Maggette. But we know that Nelly wants Crawford gone. Ellis has the biggest contract of them all and really ****ed off management last year. Jackson contract is pretty bad, but he was kind of a leader there.
Bos-
Biedrins is young and is an outstanding defender/rebounder. Crawford is the best shooter of the three guards, and has the friendliest contract. I think Maggette is underrated around here; he's a scorer, an athlete, and great at drawing fouls. But he's not as young as you'd think and has injury problems. Jackson is a good defender and solid offensive player 2 years younger than Ray but not at Ray's offensive level. Ellis is blazing fast and a great finisher, but doesn't shoot well from 3. Can the C's have 2 guards like that in the backcourt? On the otherhand, Pierce is likely to be driving to the hoop less and less, while Rondo and Ellis can do that with great skill. I think Boston would have to consider any of the 3 offers; Biedrins is that good.
Let's say that GS is willing to deal Biedrins, but needs a Center in return
b. Ray and Perk for Biedrins, one of group 1: (Randolph or Wright), and one of group 2: (Maggette, Jakcosn, Ellis or Crawford.)
GS-
Same reasons as above: Financial flexibility, consolidation of skill. Only now they get a center back but have to give up a super athletic, talented prospect in return.
Bos-
Would be so sad to see Perk go, but Randolph and Wright (I like Wright more) are very talented athletes with good size, and Biedrins is an upgrade from Perk with one of the guards taking over for Ray.
Let's say there's no way GS deals Biedrins
c. Ray and 1 of (Scal or Tony) for Turiaf and 2 of (Maggette, Jackson, Ellis or Crawford). Possibly GS would need to throw in Wright or Randolph as well for taking back 2 long deals for swingmen.
GS-
They keep Beidrins and offload some longterm money and clear some space at the 2/3
Bos-
Turiaf is a very good defender at the 4/5. He's probably an upgrade over Davis on the offensive end and definitely one on defense. If they get, say, Ellis and Jackson, they can start whomever they want and have a bench centered around House, Ellis or Jackson, Davis, and Turiaf.
What if they won't deal a big man?
d. Ray for 2 of (maggette, Ellis, Crawford, Jackson) and 1 of (Randolph, Wright)
GS-
Clear space at the wings, dump a lot of salary. Giving up one of their prospects is the price for financial help.
Bos-
Diversify their money, gain some youth and depth. Their thinking would have to be that Ray is aging, and though he's still a better starter than any of those guards, the value added to the bench and to lessening the starters' minutes would benefit the team more than not making the trade.
Thank you and have fun.
Topic: (Gulp) Ray Allen Trade Ideas (Read 14538 times)